Chocolate Tempering: Tips and Troubleshooting

[Tri2Cook]

I've never subscribed to the "that's not how it's done so that's not how it should be done" thing so, if it were me, I'd try to set up a phone call or email bounce with Sebastian and see what he has to say on the cooling thing. It's never a bad thing to learn something new or different. Even if it turns out not to be the best option for your purposes at this time, you can just stick it on the knowledge shelf in case you ever need it. Nothing particularly helpful I guess, just my thoughts as a non-expert.

[Lior]

I have 2 melters so that is an option-a great one. I think you mentioned this once and I forgot all about it. I will also try the oven and tea towels!!! cute!! If it helps with bubbles-all the better. I also do not have a warming cabinet or a vibration table...

I totally agree with tri2cook about never bumping an idea or what is behind it and would love to hear about the mold cooling method. Another thing that bugs me is that I never temper by eye- I always chicken out and it is so silly. I get tempted and use the thermometer.

[John DePaula]

If your room temperature is above ~32C (90F), and it might be in Ashkelon, then cooling your mold might be desirable.

For the record, I don't think there is one and only one way to do something correctly. I read that all the time in books and hear it from European instructors, but of course, that's ridiculous.

But forgive me if I do have an opinion about what isn't going to work. I can be boorish that way...

[John DePaula]

I have 2 melters so that is an option-a great one. I think you mentioned this once and I forgot all about it. I will also try the oven and tea towels!!! cute!! If it helps with bubbles-all the better. I also do not have a warming cabinet or a vibration table...

I totally agree with tri2cook about never bumping an idea or what is behind it and would love to hear about the mold cooling method. Another thing that bugs me is that I never temper by eye- I always chicken out and it is so silly. I get tempted and use the thermometer.

←

Do be careful, Lior, that you don't let the oven get too hot; obviously, there is a tiny window of safe temperature for your molds before damaging them...

[lapin d'or]

I have been using my heated propagator to keep my moulds warm. It has worked quite well and was only ever used for seedlings for a few weeks in spring so now I feel I get much better value from it.

example : small propagator

I put a blanket over the top to keep the heat in well and shuffle the moulds around a few times while they are heating.

I am not happy with my attempts at layering chocolate - I did this for some large easter moulds but when you bite into the chocolate the layers shear apart and it just doesn't seem rigth.

Lapin

[John DePaula]

I have been using my heated propagator to keep my moulds warm. It has worked quite well and was only ever used for seedlings for a few weeks in spring so now I feel I get much better value from it.

example : small propagator

I put a blanket over the top to keep the heat in well and shuffle the moulds around a few times while they are heating.

I am not happy with my attempts at layering chocolate - I did this for some large easter moulds but when you bite into the chocolate the layers shear apart and it just doesn't seem rigth.

Lapin

←

That is an excellent idea, using the propagator! Much safer than using a real oven and inexpensive, too. Love it.

[Lior]

Great idea! I will have to see if they have them here! Oh and we are now at 27 C 80% humidity and it will get to 32-34 in July and August and Sept. Ususally doesn't go higher... blckhhhh I hate heat (and there are medusas-jellyfish on their way to our beach, my son already got a small sting...)

Perhaps I don't have to warm the molds if they are in a room out of air conditioning...

I love all the smart solutions everyone has!

[Tri2Cook]

For the record, I don't think there is one and only one way to do something correctly.  I read that all the time in books and hear it from European instructors, but of course, that's ridiculous.

But forgive me if I do have an opinion about what isn't going to work. I can be boorish that way...

←

No accusation intended, at least not towards any individual. I'm always fascinated with seeing or reading about someone doing something in a new way or in a way that is generally considered incorrect and having good results. So it was a rooting-for-the-underdog thing that had me hoping she wouldn't disregard the idea just because it's not considered "the right way".

[Edward J]

Scratching my head over this one....

Last week I got in a chocolate wheel that sits in the full gastro-norm size (full hotel pan size in N.American speak) chocolate melter.

With dark couverture I work exclusivley with Lindt 70%,. The couverture was tempered properly, did a sample and it showed no streaks. Hand dipped maybe 70 pcs and the temper was good--all this while the wheel was running.

Next I coated out some molds. I held the molds under the stream of couverture from the wheel, scraped off, then put the mold on the vibrating table, knocked out the excess, then placed the molds upside down on s/s bars resting on a marble topped table. Did 4 or 6 molds @18 cavities each. Scraped the molds clean, and left them to crystalize in the upright position. My room is around 20 C and the humidty is under 60%. Within 10 minutes the molds developed fat bloom.

The melter is a waterbath type, and I did not touch the settings the whole morning. The hand dipped pieces are good, but I'm still scratching my head about the molds.

Am I correct in thinking that the couverture was "overtempered" from the motion of the wheel PLUS the vibrating table?

Am I going to have to ladle the molds inspite of the wheel?

[schneich]

did you stack the molds or turn them upside down (cavities down)

if so, you probably untempered the chocolate by trapping the heat from the

exothermic crystallization. when you do molds you want to put em in the fridge

right away putting them on the side..

cheers

t.

[Kerry Beal]

Doesn't sound overtempered - sounds more like something threw it out of temper.

[Lisa Shock]

You mentioned that you held the molds...hot hands by any chance?

[Kerry Beal]

Another thought is that the tempering unit itself overheated between the time you dipped and the time you molded. No way to go back and check that at this point. Did you turn the heat up as the chocolate started to thicken on the wheel?

[chiantiglace]

im sure latent heating wasn't the cause nor hot hands. You would have to hold your hand there for a long time to throw it out of temper, if thats even possible because polycarbonate is not the best conductor in the world, not even close.

It sounds something on the lines of kerry's second post. Your test was a fluke, the chocolate was heated in the bowl some way from the time you tested to the time you used it. and 20C is the absolute perfect room temp, they should have set up in less than three minutes.

also, you can't agitate chocolate too much.

Edited August 19, 2009 by chiantiglace (log)

[Edward J]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

The couverture in the melter wasn't out of temper. For one thing there's almost 12 kgs of couverure in there, and the melter is a waterbath type, with about 8 liters of water in it. In order to raise the temp it would take almost 20 minutes--and I didn't touch the thermostat. I also did a test after discovering the bloom on the molds, and the couverture was in good temper

The bloom on the molds was a very consistant, even layer. The molds that spend the most time in the vibrating table had the most bloom on them, the simpler molds had less--when I finally got the shells out, the outside layer was still in good shape, but the inside had turned grey.

The room is quite small--about 6' x 8' (2 meters by 21/2 meters) with central airconditioning and no heat sources other than the two chocolate melters. There are two tables, one 6" and one 2', and each topped with a 3/4" (20 mm) continous marble slab.

The chocoalte wheel is good, but the noise was unbearable. I contacted the mnfctr, and let him listen to the noise on the phone--they agreed that the motor was faulty, I Fed-exed the motor on Monday, and will try again molding with the wheel when I get it back.

[sixela]

Theoretically, I get that the whole idea of tempering however there are some things I really don't understand and Calebaut's website and chocolate TV is only confusing me more...Callebaut shows 3-4 different ways of tempering but what I'm really interested in is the seed method vs. microwave...from what i understand,with the seed method you must first bring the temp. of the chocolate to a certain high (all temps are approximate) 118ish then cool it down to a certain low 85ish then heat it up to 90ish. In the video and on other sites, when using the microwave, you merely nuke it gently at 1/2 power until it starts to melt, then it's at temper...Why don't i have to bring it up down and up again as I did with the see method??? It seems ridiculously more easy, but i still don't get how the pre-crystallization takes place without the up down up of standard tempering....

I'm trying to square my brain around this but it seems like i'm missing a piece.

[bkeith]

I think you're mixing terms. I use the seeding method, and I use the microwave to accomplish it. Sounds like you're talking about seeding vs. "direct warming". In essence:

. Seeding refers to the method where you melt part of your chocolate to the "virgin" state where all the cocoa butter crystals have melted -- 118F or so. Then you add unmelted (seed) chocolate that's already in temper (as it should be when you receive it unless it's been stored badly), and stir like mad. As the unmelted chocolate softens and melts out, the good (beta) crystals it contains grab onto the melted cocoa butter in the virgin chocolate and encourage the formation or more beta crystals. Once the mixture gets to the proper working temperature range (88-90F-ish), you remove any chunks of unmelted chocolate that are left to prevent over-tempering and work with the now-tempered chocolate.

. Direct warming takes advantage of the fact that if you're careful, you can gently warm chocoalte to the point where it's melted and at proper working range without taking it above the point where the beta crystals start to melt out. In essence, you're melting the chocolate without ever going out of temper. Just warm and stir, warm and stir, a bit at a time until the chocolate is melted and in working range. Make sure you don't get the chocoalte above 90F or so, and you should be in good shape. It's a bit fiddly and fussy to do for folks who are new to tempering, which is why I stopped teaching that method and went back to seeding.

Whatever method you use, it's always good advice to test the batch of chocolate to ensure you've gotten it into good temper before working with it -- saves heartache later. Just use the tip of a spatula or knife or a scrap of parchment paper. Dip into the tempered chocolate and let it sit at room temp. If it sets within a few minutes, you're in good shape. If not, you're probably not in temper (and/or your room's too hot).

Hope that helps.

[merlicky]

To add a little more to what Keith said…

When you work with the microwave until the chocolate just starts to melt you are basically using the seeding method. You are not melting all the chocolate, so the remaining chocolate will seed whatever cocoa butter comes out of temper. If you use this method you have to make sure that you are using chocolate that was already in good temper.

Also, when using the seeding method you don’t have to bring the temperature down and then heat it back up to working temperature. This is only needed if you are tabling the chocolate (or any other rapid cool method). The tabling method quickly lowers the temperature of the chocolate, thus producing Form V crystals along with some lower form crystals. By heating the chocolate back up to working temperature all the lower form crystals are melted away leaving just the good Beta crystals. The seeding method, if done right, does not result in these lower form crystals and therefore you don’t need to drop the temperature and heat it back up.

[sixela]

bkieth:

yes, it helps quite a bit---I'm going to assume that the callebaut couveture chips I'm using are already in temper, though I still have a couple of questions:

1. Does this asssume if i do the direct warming via the microwave or stovetop with these chips and it exceeds 88-90 degrees, it will go out of temper?

2. Does this also mean that if I do seeding technique that I will always have to add tempered chocolate as seeds? Which is to say, If I use chocolate that i screwed up on tempering, can I re-temper it without adding new tempered chocolate by bringing it up to the requisite temp and cooling it down to desired temp?

thanks so much for your help!

[sixela]

Just so I get this right...Once I drop the chocolate from it's high of 118 to its low of 89, it's in temper and I can use it at that point?

Also, i'm looking at the crystallization curve on the bag of my callebaut and it gives me a range:

113-122

80.6

87.8-89.6

94.1

I'm assuming that once it goes beyond 94.1, i'm out of temper, and below that, I'm hardened...is this correct?

Thanks again!

[tammylc]

bkieth:

yes, it helps quite a bit---I'm going to assume that the callebaut couveture chips I'm using are already in temper, though I still have a couple of questions:

1. Does this asssume if i do the direct warming via the microwave or stovetop with these chips and it exceeds 88-90 degrees, it will go out of temper?

2. Does this also mean that if I do seeding technique that I will always have to add tempered chocolate as seeds? Which is to say, If I use chocolate that i screwed up on tempering, can I re-temper it without adding new tempered chocolate by bringing it up to the requisite temp and cooling it down to desired temp?

thanks so much for your help!

1. Yes, although I have found that if I go just a bit above and quickly add some fresh chocolate, it will temper fine. And the exact temper range will vary depending on the chocolate you are using.

2. Yes, if you are using the seed method you always need to have tempered chocolate as seeds. The only way to re-temper chocolate without fresh seed chocolate is to use a method such as tabling described above, which uses a completely different method to introduce the appropriate crystals.

[tammylc]

Just so I get this right...Once I drop the chocolate from it's high of 118 to its low of 89, it's in temper and I can use it at that point?

Also, i'm looking at the crystallization curve on the bag of my callebaut and it gives me a range:

113-122

80.6

87.8-89.6

94.1

I'm assuming that once it goes beyond 94.1, i'm out of temper, and below that, I'm hardened...is this correct?

Thanks again!

To your first question - if you add fresh seed chocolate to chocolate that's at 118 and stir it until it's 89, then yes, it will probably be in temper. But you should always double check by doing a temper test anyway, because there's nothing worse than thinking chocolate is in temper when it's not!

Re. your temper curve - I'm not entirely sure how Callebaut gives its numbers. I'm particularly confused about the 94.1 measure. But I'd assume that 113-122 is the temperature you should heat your chocolate to to melt out all the crystals. If you were tabling the chocolate, you'd want to cool it down to 80.6 to introduce the right crystals, so that's what that number is. And the chocolate is in temper between 87.8-89.6.

The 94.1 might be the maximum temperature you can achieve once you are overcrystallized. Basically, the crystals continue to multiply, and eventually even though you are in the right temperature range your chocolate becomes to thick to work with. Then it's possible to heat it above the typical temper range and have it remain in temper, although you need to be cautious about it. But maybe some Callebaut users can weigh in on if that's what that number is for.

[merlicky]

Just so I get this right...Once I drop the chocolate from it's high of 118 to its low of 89, it's in temper and I can use it at that point?

Not exactly. It depends on how you are dropping the temperature of the chocolate. If you just heat it up and leave it to cool, then the chocolate won't be in temper. If you heat it up and put tempered chocolate in it to cool it and seed it, then it should be in temper.

However, it is usually not best to use chocolate that has just reached the required temperature. Initially there might not be enough seed crystals distributed through the chocolate and you could get spotty temper or streaking. So, usually once the chocolate cools to under 90°F you want to agitate (stir) it for a little bit to get a good quantity of seed crystals throughout the chocolate.

[bkeith]

bkieth:

yes, it helps quite a bit---I'm going to assume that the callebaut couveture chips I'm using are already in temper, though I still have a couple of questions:

1. Does this asssume if i do the direct warming via the microwave or stovetop with these chips and it exceeds 88-90 degrees, it will go out of temper?

2. Does this also mean that if I do seeding technique that I will always have to add tempered chocolate as seeds? Which is to say, If I use chocolate that i screwed up on tempering, can I re-temper it without adding new tempered chocolate by bringing it up to the requisite temp and cooling it down to desired temp?

thanks so much for your help!

1. Yes, although I have found that if I go just a bit above and quickly add some fresh chocolate, it will temper fine. And the exact temper range will vary depending on the chocolate you are using.

2. Yes, if you are using the seed method you always need to have tempered chocolate as seeds. The only way to re-temper chocolate without fresh seed chocolate is to use a method such as tabling described above, which uses a completely different method to introduce the appropriate crystals.

Thanks, Tammy, for jumping in. I haven't had a chance to check in here since Wednesday morning.

[sixela]

thank you all for passing on your understanding of chocolate --- i think i get it!!! (thank god)...one more question: what is happening in the tabelling process that allows un-tempered chocolate to be tempered? Thanks again for all your help!