New Stand Mixer - is an integrated possibility to heat the bowl / an integrated cooking function worth it?

[BatchCooker]

Hello everyone,

 

I am planning to get my first stand mixer. I am esp. gonna need it for doughs (bread, pasta, pizza, etc). I am not doing so many desserts or sweet baking projects (yet).

I am considering KitchenAid as well as Kenwood. From my understanding, Kenwood is probably a bit better for heavy doughs (but the KitchenAid has a much nicer look...).

Now my question: Kenwood has some models that have an integrated cooking function / ability to heat the bowl at a fairly specific temperature. While I am not very interested in cooking stews or risottos in the stand mixer, I wonder how useful the possiblity of heating the bowl is when it comes to various kitchen tasks? Would that be very useful for, say, making a butter sauce because you can keep it at the right temperature and let the stand mixer whisk it? Or useful for certain desserts (which I don't make so often yet...)? 

It makes a price difference of a few hundred Euros (that is, roughly a few hundred dollars), so the advantages of the stand mixer with cooking function vs. the stand mixer without cooking function would need to be fairly significant to go for it...

Oh, I should also mention that I am probably gonna get the new Anova Precision Oven if the reviews turn out to be good... in that case I can proof yeast dough in the precision oven anyways and the heating function of the stand mixer would not be useful for that particular purpose.

 

Best

 

Jakob

[AlaMoi]

for KA the heated bowl is an accessory - so you can add it whenever you feel you need it.

 

frankly, in 20+ years I've never had the need.  typically in cooking for two, the prep of a small qty of sauce/etc is so quick, doing the proper mise-en-place is far more important - everything portioned out and at the ready...

 

the issue of temp control etc is imho much more a function of experience.  it's like bread doughs - not sure if any "new" loaf has ever turned out "perfect" for me on the first try.  but after making a recipe 3-4-5 times, you know what to look for and can adapt/adjust on the fly.

or proofing/raising dough - there is a time/temp relationship - controlling a rise cycle to the degree and minute is important in a commercial bakery making lots of bread to a schedule.  much less important in the home kitchen...  my oven has a pre program 'proofing' button - it's too hot - the temp is about 110'F/43'C - close to the yeast kill temp.  technology is wonderfully if it actually meets the need.  far too often whiz-bang kitchen gadgets don't.

 

same with almost any recipe - if there is no picture of the finished dish, one tends to blunder along not knowing exactly what it's supposed to look like....

 

gruesse dem Ulmer Spatz!

[BatchCooker]

21 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

for KA the heated bowl is an accessory - so you can add it whenever you feel you need it.

 

frankly, in 20+ years I've never had the need.  typically in cooking for two, the prep of a small qty of sauce/etc is so quick, doing the proper mise-en-place is far more important - everything portioned out and at the ready...

 

the issue of temp control etc is imho much more a function of experience.  it's like bread doughs - not sure if any "new" loaf has ever turned out "perfect" for me on the first try.  but after making a recipe 3-4-5 times, you know what to look for and can adapt/adjust on the fly.

or proofing/raising dough - there is a time/temp relationship - controlling a rise cycle to the degree and minute is important in a commercial bakery making lots of bread to a schedule.  much less important in the home kitchen...  my oven has a pre program 'proofing' button - it's too hot - the temp is about 110'F/43'C - close to the yeast kill temp.  technology is wonderfully if it actually meets the need.  far too often whiz-bang kitchen gadgets don't.

 

same with almost any recipe - if there is no picture of the finished dish, one tends to blunder along not knowing exactly what it's supposed to look like....

 

gruesse dem Ulmer Spatz!

 

Thank you! I guess I'll skip the heating function!

 

Ulmer Spatz is quite far away still from me, but I'll do my best

[pastrygirl]

save a few hundred euros and get a propane torch

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Jakob, thank you for your link.  I enjoyed learning a bit about Ulmer Spatz.

 

If you want to make bread buy an Ankarsrum.  Ankarsrum mixers should be readily available in Europe since they are made in Sweden.  Ankarsrum mixers make both small batches of dough and large batches of dough.  I have no experience with Kenwood but I have two KitchenAid mixers.  I love KitchenAid but not for bread.  (And I've read KitchenAid mixers use Ankarsrum motors.)

 

I have the KitchenAid Precise Heat Mixing Bowl mentioned above.  I use it for chocolate work (something I have not done in a while).  Considering all my other kitchen toys I'd use the Precise Heat Mixing Bowl just for chocolate.  I used to use the Precise Heat Mixing Bowl for yogurt, however next time I make yogurt I'd use the APO.  Seems like it would be easier.

 

As far as bread is concerned with an Ankarsrum mixer and an Anova Precision Oven you should be good to go.  Get a baking steel while you are at it.

 

 

P.S.  unless I were above the artic circle I'd let my bread proof at room temperature.

 

 

 

 

[BatchCooker]

12 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

save a few hundred euros and get a propane torch

Hm, why would that be a good substitute? I was thinking that a heated bowl of stand mixer would be good for all applications that require heat (sometimes fairly precise heat) at the same as thorough mixing?

[BatchCooker]

10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Jakob, thank you for your link.  I enjoyed learning a bit about Ulmer Spatz.

 

If you want to make bread buy an Ankarsrum.  Ankarsrum mixers should be readily available in Europe since they are made in Sweden.  Ankarsrum mixers make both small batches of dough and large batches of dough.  I have no experience with Kenwood but I have two KitchenAid mixers.  I love KitchenAid but not for bread.  (And I've read KitchenAid mixers use Ankarsrum motors.)

 

I have the KitchenAid Precise Heat Mixing Bowl mentioned above.  I use it for chocolate work (something I have not done in a while).  Considering all my other kitchen toys I'd use the Precise Heat Mixing Bowl just for chocolate.  I used to use the Precise Heat Mixing Bowl for yogurt, however next time I make yogurt I'd use the APO.  Seems like it would be easier.

 

As far as bread is concerned with an Ankarsrum mixer and an Anova Precision Oven you should be good to go.  Get a baking steel while you are at it.

 

 

P.S.  unless I were above the artic circle I'd let my bread proof at room temperature.

 

 

 

 

Thanks! I read about the Ankarsrum. It seems to have a good rep for bread, but less so for smaller quantities and for other stand mixer uses like whipping egg whites etc. So that is why I am considering the Kenwood, since it seems to be decent at bread as well as the traditional stand mixer uses. But I think it is not a very common brand in the US, so it is a bit hard to find good comparisons to the KitchenAid online.

[pastrygirl]

1 hour ago, BatchCooker said:

Hm, why would that be a good substitute? I was thinking that a heated bowl of stand mixer would be good for all applications that require heat (sometimes fairly precise heat) at the same as thorough mixing?

 

Such as what,  zabaglione and hollandaise?  Ok, true, a torch won't help you there.  But I use it frequently in pastry applications where I want to soften butter a bit.  Whether creaming butter and sugar for cookie dough or re-fluffing previously made buttercream, warming the bottom and sides of the mixer bowl with a bit of fire is a really easy way to loosen things up. 

 

Is this the one?  https://www.kenwoodworld.com/en-us/products/kitchen-machines/cooking-chef/cooking-chef

 

Max temp is 285F, that seems pretty low.  If you're going to make polenta or risotto or something, how quickly does it boil a quart of water? 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, BatchCooker said:

Thanks! I read about the Ankarsrum. It seems to have a good rep for bread, but less so for smaller quantities and for other stand mixer uses like whipping egg whites etc. So that is why I am considering the Kenwood, since it seems to be decent at bread as well as the traditional stand mixer uses. But I think it is not a very common brand in the US, so it is a bit hard to find good comparisons to the KitchenAid online.

 

For egg whites I prefer the Ankarsrum.  For cookie dough I like the KitchenAid.  The main reason I purchased the Ankarsrum is my KitchenAid will not handle a kilogram batch of bread dough and the Ankarsrum will.  If you are mixing 2 kg of bread dough at a time either one should be OK.

 

If heating while mixing is important, consider a Thermomix:

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/158145-watch-out-instantpot-blender-fp-fair-warning-frypan/?tab=comments#comment-2193237

 

But as I said I have no experience with Kenwood.

 

[BatchCooker]

22 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Such as what,  zabaglione and hollandaise?  Ok, true, a torch won't help you there.  But I use it frequently in pastry applications where I want to soften butter a bit.  Whether creaming butter and sugar for cookie dough or re-fluffing previously made buttercream, warming the bottom and sides of the mixer bowl with a bit of fire is a really easy way to loosen things up. 

 

Is this the one?  https://www.kenwoodworld.com/en-us/products/kitchen-machines/cooking-chef/cooking-chef

 

Max temp is 285F, that seems pretty low.  If you're going to make polenta or risotto or something, how quickly does it boil a quart of water? 

Yes, that model, I was indeed thinking of things like hollandaise. But thinking about it, I don't make that so often that it is worth spending a few hundred just to make that a bit easier. 

Not sure, how powerful. It is induction though. Anyways, I think I will stick with the non heated option (though I'd be bit afraid to use a torch on my expensive stand mixer

[BatchCooker]

21 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

For egg whites I prefer the Ankarsrum.  For cookie dough I like the KitchenAid.  The main reason I purchased the Ankarsrum is my KitchenAid will not handle a kilogram batch of bread dough and the Ankarsrum will.  If you are mixing 2 kg of bread dough at a time either one should be OK.

 

If heating while mixing is important, consider a Thermomix:

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/158145-watch-out-instantpot-blender-fp-fair-warning-frypan/?tab=comments#comment-2193237

 

But as I said I have no experience with Kenwood.

 

Hm, how well does your Ankarsrum handle smaller quantities? Say, a dough with 250g of flour?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, BatchCooker said:

Hm, how well does your Ankarsrum handle smaller quantities? Say, a dough with 250g of flour?

 

I have never tried a batch that small.

 

[BatchCooker]

18 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I have never tried a batch that small.

 

I see. Can I ask you two more questions?  1. For cream or egg whites - do you use the plastic bowl and the whisk in the Ankarsrum? Or do you use the metal bowl and the roller? I read in some forums that the latter also works? 2. I read that you cannot work with cold butter in the Ankarsrum? Is that also your experience? 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, BatchCooker said:

I see. Can I ask you two more questions?  1. For cream or egg whites - do you use the plastic bowl and the whisk in the Ankarsrum? Or do you use the metal bowl and the roller? I read in some forums that the latter also works? 2. I read that you cannot work with cold butter in the Ankarsrum? Is that also your experience? 

 

For cream I usually use an iSi.

 

Egg whites work well in the Ankarsrum plastic bowl.  Of course kitchenAid is also good with egg whites.  I've been known to whip egg whites by hand in a copper pan.  I have not tried egg whites in the Ankarsrum metal bowl.

 

True, I don't think there's a way to use cold butter in the Ankarsrum.  For cookies I prefer the KitchenAid.  However I make cookies very few times a year, whereas I bake bread almost every week.

 

[curls]

You could most probably use cold butter in the Ankarsrum if you grated the butter. You can also use cold butter if you just Cut it into pats, leave it in the bowl, and start creaming it with the sugar until the butter warms up enough to be incorporated.

[pastrygirl]

Whipping egg whites in plastic is generally not recommended because plastics can hold onto fat residues that interfere with the process.  Is the Ankarsrum plastic bowl easier to get squeaky clean than others?

Edited November 6, 2020 by pastrygirl (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

Whipping egg whites in plastic is generally not recommended because plastics can hold onto fat residues that interfere with the process.  Is the Ankarsrum plastic bowl easier to get squeaky clean than others?

 

Don't know.  The plastic is Tritan.  Ankarsrum claims the mixer will whip 1 to 18 egg whites.  I seldom do egg whites but I'm planning on an egg white recipe this weekend.

 

Someone, I'm thinking it might have been Cook's Illustrated, experimented and found a bit of oil was not as disastrous to egg white cookery as previously believed.  It may sound like a recent election but at this time I am not sure whether I shall use the Arkansrum or the KitchenAid.

 

Considering US prices, in my opinion there are two use cases for the Arkarsrum:  either you need an attachment that KitchenAid does not offer (such as the flocker) or you bake bread.  If you bake bread you will kiss your Arkansrum mixer.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I did indeed whip my egg whites in the Ankarsrum plastic bowl.  It does an exceptional job.  (If anyone is wondering the yolks went in the KitchenAid.)

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I also whipped my cream in the iSi.  The valve stuck open.  It was entertaining if nothing else.

 

[Kerry Beal]

27 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I also whipped my cream in the iSi.  The valve stuck open.  It was entertaining if nothing else.

 

I've been entertained that way a few times!

[SweetSymphonybyM]

On 11/9/2020 at 9:16 PM, Kerry Beal said:

I've been entertained that way a few times!

Hmmm, what is this that I should watch out for? (Been gifted with an iSi recently, but haven't used yet)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, SweetSymphonybyM said:

Hmmm, what is this that I should watch out for? (Been gifted with an iSi recently, but haven't used yet)

 

https://video.disney.com/watch/sorcerer-s-apprentice-fantasia-4ea9ebc01a74ea59a5867853