Dumplings: Tips, Techniques, Recipes

[jo-mel]

Would be nice to have Sagwa

around, though!

Ahhh --- er - um ---why would you like to have Sagwa around?

[dumpling]

Is there an auspicious or prefered number of pleats?

Not 4

[jo-mel]

Is there an auspicious or prefered number of pleats?

Not 4

I understand the "4" taboo (and how you can neutralize it), but what is the reasoning for '4-Happiness Shou Mai', '4-Color Rice Pudding' the Four Virtues/Arts/ etc. You can't get away from 4-Season Beans, because there are 4 of them and that can't be changed.

I've found myself making excuses for 4 pleats, by thinking they are really 2 & 2 divided by a pinch in the middle. I don't step on cracks on the sidewalk, either!!! LOL!

[project]

jo-mel:

"Ahhh --- er - um ---why would you like to have Sagwa around?"

She's a total sweetheart. I'd save some of the pork for her,

include some chicken livers on the side, poach a chicken,

mince the meat, defat, clarify, and reduce the stock, combine

it with the meat, chill it, and serve her minced chicken in

aspic on white porcelain dishes! She might get a cheese

omelet.

I'd save the cabbage, scallions, ginger, sesame oil, black

mushrooms, etc. for the dumplings!

My current kitty cat is a girl (solid black altered domestic

long hair), but she is really fearful (was when I got her, and

I have not fully calmed her down) and unadventurous and not

open to things like minced chicken in aspic.

I did have a little boy kitty cat (orange and white intact

domestic short hair), fantastic athlete, really bright, great

fun, and gave him chicken livers, minced chicken in aspic,

cheese, scrambled eggs, etc., and he loved all of them -- all

in addition to his canned cat food. He was so active his

weight was always perfect, even when eating maybe 1000 C on

some days. I'd go out back, give him a call, and he'd come

out from resting under a bush, run full speed 200 yards, take

the 20 or so back porch steps two or three at a time, and

arrive not winded -- fantastic athlete.

[jo-mel]

Whew!!! You are a cat lover!! You had no idea what I was thinking, when you mentioned your cleaver, cutting board, and live hog!!!

While I never served my kittiekats chicken in aspic, Pansy (all 13 of them), Daisy, Elmer, (calicos and tortoiseshell - Elmer was a girl) and Teddy all ate better than most. Teddy - the one lone orange/yellow male, used to eat onions if they were dressed in olive oil, and he loved nibbling the corners of wrapped Pumpkin Breads that were gifts for people. I had them in a cool room. He went in, during the night, and helped himself. The following year, I smartly closed the door ---not realizing that he was already in the room!

Sagwa is so special, that she deserves at least squab or quail -----not plain ole chicken!

Current kitty cat sounds lucky to have you. When she realizes that her life is now for real, you might have her eating minced chicken --- if it is served on the proper plate, of course!

[project]

jo-mel:

You REALLY like cats and understand them.

Of course, the TV Sagwa was created by Ms. Amy Tan and crew;

someone there, likely Ms. Tan, knew very well what a total

sweetheart little girl kitty cat would be like. Good to see

that such sweetness crosses oceans well.

"Current kitty cat sounds lucky to have you. When she

realizes that her life is now for real, you might have her

eating minced chicken --- if it is served on the proper plate,

of course!"

She was hungry at the back door, came in, and stayed. My vet

got her shots up to date and said that she was altered and

healthy.

Mostly she just realizes that if the TV is on, then she can

climb on my chest, get covered up with the sheet and blankets,

and do her best to block my view and breathing. Or, if I am

working at my computer too long, then she can come to the

stairs, say "meow", and get me to follow her back to the TV.

I just got back from grocery shopping with two 7 pound Perdue

Oven Stuffer roasting chickens. Tomorrow I will cut them up,

brown them in oil in a Chinese wok outdoors over a 170,000

BTU/hour propane cooker (King Kooker, from Louisiana intended

for heating large pots of seafood at beach parties), brown

some onions, carrots, celery, and mushrooms, stew all of it

with white wine, parsley, thyme, pepper corns, and water to

cover, separate and chop the meat, keep the onions, carrots,

celery, and mushrooms, discard the skin and bones, strain,

defat, and reduce the stock, combine with roux, milk, cream,

S&P, and lemon juice, combine with the chicken, vegetables,

and some blanched little peas, heat through, and keep for

dinners next week. It's 'Blanquette de Oven Stuffer' except

not intended to be delicate; it's really meaty, with lots of

flavor, including some browned flavor.

So, my kitty cat will get the livers!

[eatingwitheddie]

It's 'Blanquette de Oven Stuffer' except not intended to be delicate; it's really meaty, with lots of flavor, including some browned flavor.

So, my kitty cat will get the livers!

The chicken and the oven stuffer sound cute and tasty - but what's up with those dumplins'?

[project]

Ed Schoenfeld:

"The chicken and the oven stuffer sound cute and tasty - but

what's up with those dumplins'?"

The chicken I've done often, have good notes, and know how to

do. It's routine. The dumplings are new for me!

The two grocery stores I shopped at today -- Sam's Club and

Wal-Mart -- had no ground pork and no fresh pork shoulder.

Tomorrow may go to my local A&P, get some ground pork, fresh

scallions, fresh ginger, Napa cabbage, etc. and go for it.

I do have

Barbara Tropp, 'The Modern Art of Chinese Cooking: Techniques

and Recipes', ISBN 0-688-14611-2, William Morrow, New York,

2001.

and will want to accept the advice that it is a good reference

for dumplings and study it again.

Also will need some freezer space -- to this end, had some

frozen fillets of whiting but decided that they were just too

fishy to try to cook again. Tomorrow some local fauna will

get some fresh whiting.

The last batch of frozen dumplings I bought were worse than I

thought -- shouldn't eat those again. Do want to get good at

making dumplings, routinely.

Thanks for all the advice, links, and references.

[Gary Soup]

It's 'Blanquette de Oven Stuffer' except not intended to be delicate; it's really meaty, with lots of flavor, including some browned flavor.

So, my kitty cat will get the livers!

The chicken and the oven stuffer sound cute and tasty - but what's up with those dumplins'?

Patience, Eddie. They were setting me up for my Dragon, Tiger and Phoenix recipe. Just waiting for the dragon to come up now. Check back on St. Patrick's Day.

[gus_tatory]

love this thread so far!

epicurious has an online illustrated 'step by step' article on basic dumpling making, if you'd find it useful, dumplings at epicurious

[jo-mel]

epicurious has an online illustrated 'step by step' article on basic dumpling making, if you'd find it useful, dumplings at epicurious

Thanks for that link. It is quite clear ----and shows that first pleat rather well. You can show some people how to do it, but some just don't get the idea of pleating. (believe me)

Thanks to the Internet, they now can see for themselves.

[sister soul]

project-

By now, you've probably already made at least your 1st batch of dumplings (how did they turn out?) but just wanted to chime in here with some tidbits gleaned from making jiao-zi with my mom:

- Very similar filling recipe to the one posted by Eddie, with the exception of no mushrooms, no water chestnuts, a little bit of veg. oil added to get the right texture, and instead of cabbage, we use frozen chopped spinach (thawed). I much prefer the taste of the meat/spinach mixture to the cabbage or jiu-cai variety, but obviously that's just a matter of individual tastes. I also prefer a mixture that has a stronger meat than vegetable flavor.

- My mom used to always make her own wrappers, but now uses the store-bought kind, and I don't taste much of a difference, if they are a good brand of wrapper.

- The texture of the filling is very moist, and somewhat loose -- but not too loose. The amount of oil and water you need to add to the filling depends on the fattiness of the meat.

- My family's favorite way to seal the jiao-zi is like so:

1. Put a small dollop of filling in the middle of the round wrapper

2. Wet the inside perimeter of the wrapper with a bit of water

3. Fold the wrapper in half and press the center together (making a half-moon, like in step 3 of the Epicurious example, above)

4. Fold in one of the open "corners" on the side of the wrapper. If I am holding the dumpling in the palm of my left hand, I would push the right-side "flap" all the way into the center, until it meets the center seal created in step 3. Press the edge facing you together, leaving a pocket on the side facing away from you. Press the center of this open pocket tightly against the back of the dumpling, so that the sides of the pocket fan out a bit.

5. Repeat with the open corner on the other side.

It's hard to describe this folding technique, but it's simple to do, and creates a nice shape, that lets the jiao-zi "stand up" better on the plate.

Edited December 5, 2003 by sister soul (log)

[project]

In the grocery this evening, they did have some ground pork.

The label said 29% fat, and I was looking for something closer

to 20%.

Thanks for the instructions.

By "stand up" on the plate, can you clarify?

For example, suppose we start with a circle of dough. We put

on some filling, fold the dough, put in, say, two pleats, and

seal the dough. The seal is at the edges of the original

circle. For the completed dumpling, this sealed edge makes an

arc, somewhat less than 180 degrees of a circle, perhaps 150

degrees.

When this dumpling is on the plate, is the plane of this arc

horizontal or vertical? That is, is the arc fully in contact

with the plate (plane horizontal) or in the air like an arch

(plane vertical)?

[jo-mel]

~~~~~~By "stand up" on the plate, can you clarify?~~~~~~~

When this dumpling is on the plate, is the plane of this arc

horizontal or vertical? That is, is the arc fully in contact

with the plate (plane horizontal) or in the air like an arch

(plane vertical)?

(Hmmmm, I thought I replied to this last night, but I guess I never pushed the 'post' button! LOL! Lets see if I can re-do it.)

If you look at the last picture in this link:

http://www.digsmagazine.com/nourish/nourish_dumplings4.htm

you will see the dumpling 'standing' on the cook's hand. If the wrapper had just been folded in half, the dumpling would fall over if placed with the arc on top.

By pleating one side, you change the balance, and if you look closely, you will see the concave side of the dumpling ----made by pushing gently on that side, causing the other side to bulge out -- like a back-pack. The dumpling will now 'stand' firmly with the arc/arch on the top, and the full bottom flattened.

Clear??

[lorea]

Also, if the pleating is too much work, you can always press the edges of the dumpling together withOUT pleats....these are called "pig's ears." As kids, we were allowed to make it this way, since it still tastes the same. This is fine if you're going to just boil the dumplings. But for pot stickers and for steaming, you'll want the dumplings to stand up, so that's when the pleats need to come in.

[project]

For the plane of the arc in the final dumpling, I'm concluding that it is vertical. So, when a dumpling is being served, the arc touches the plate only at its ends and otherwise is in the air (like an arc in architecture). Or, the arc is not fully in contact with the surface of the plate. Okay.

I believe I am understanding the pleats.

For the pictures, I downloaded all of those and looked at them at 100%, 200% and 300% magnification. I believe that the pictures needed better lighting and many more pixels, but from those pictures, I believe I am seeing how the pleats work.

My explanation, from my current understanding, of the pleating is:

We start with the dough: It has been rolled until it is a thin layer in the shape of a circle. The diameter of the circle is commonly about 3 inches. Some people recommend that the dough be thinner near the boundary (edge) of the circle; once we see how the pleating works to create extra layers of dough near the boundary, having the dough at the boundary start thinner would help avoid having the dough too thick. Also, there is some variation in how thick the dough is otherwise. Some 'delicate' dumplings have dough that is thin and nearly transparent. Other dumplings, more suitable for boiling, have dough that is thick enough be solid white and opaque. And I have had some examples where the dough was so thick it suggested an effort to consume extra flour!

To describe in words and without drawing a picture, we should get oriented: We can think of a compass with directions north, south, east, and west with headings of 0 degrees due north, 90 degrees due east, 180 degrees due south, and 270 degrees due west.

Suppose we are facing north and the dough circle is on a horizontal plane, our cutting board, flat in front of us.

We find the center of the circle and draw the east-west line through this center. The line intersects the boundary of the circle on the west at point A and on the east at point B. From the center we move west along line AB about 1/2 inch to point C.

We put the center of the filling over point C. So, we don't really put the filling in the center.

We draw a north-south line through point C. This line intersects the boundary of the circle at compass heading of about 200 degrees at point D and intersects the boundary of the circle at compass heading of about 340 degrees at point E.

Now, to close and seal the dumpling, we start by wetting the top surface of the dough near the boundary and along the arc DAE.

When we seal the dumpling, we will move eastern most point B on the circle to western most point A. We will essentially fold the dough along the line DCE.

So, in this sealing operation, we will have to join the arc DBE of about 220 degrees with the arc DAE of about 140 degrees. So, we have 80 degrees of extra arc to handle, and this 80 degrees of arc is what causes the pleats. Thus, it is the 220 degree arc DBE that gets pleated to shorten it by about 80 degrees so that it will match and seal with the 140 degree arc DAE.

In this folding and sealing operation (here we are concentrating on the geometry; there is a more ergonomic description below), the part of the circle bounded by arc DAE and line DCE remains on the cutting board. The rest of the circle is lifted from the cutting board, essentially folding about 90 degrees along line DCE.

Okay, suppose, then, we lift eastern most point B and position it over western most point A. We do not join (seal) these two points yet.

Instead, we join the dough along the arc a few degrees counter clockwise (CCW) from point E and a few degrees clockwise (CW) from point D. So, points D and E will form 'points' or 'ends' of the final dumpling -- we seal at points D and E first.

Then we are left with the 80 degrees of extra arc to fold into pleats. All we really need are just two pleats. One pleat starts a few degrees CCW of point E, and the other starts a few degrees CW from point D.

At a pleat, the dough from arc DBE is used to make three layers of dough instead of just one. So, in a pleat there are two extra layers of dough. In two pleats we want to handle (use up) 80 degrees of arc. So, 80/4 = 20 which means that a pleat should be about 20 degrees of arc.

So, we will seal for about 25 degrees CCW from point E and start a pleat and seal about 25 degrees CW from point D and start a pleat.

So, starting at point E, here is how the dough on arc EBD goes: First the dough is sealed CCW for about 25 degrees; then the pleat starts and the dough is creased (folded 180 degrees) along a radius of the circle and goes CW for 20 degrees making the first extra layer; then the dough is creased (folded 180 degrees) along another radius and goes CCW for another 20 degrees making the second extra layer. Starting at point D, the work is similar: we seal for 25 degrees CW, crease 180 degrees along a radius and seal for 20 degrees CCW, crease 180 degrees along a radius and seal for 20 degrees CW.

So, of the arc ADE of 140 degrees, we have sealed 50 degrees and have 90 degrees to go. So, we have an arc of 45 degrees either side of point A to join with an arc of 45 degrees either side of point B; we are joining two arcs, each of 90 degrees. So we need no more pleats and the arcs fit.

For an 'ergonomic' method, we will hold the dough so that line DCE is horizontal and left-right in our hands, likely resting on our two third (ring) fingers, possibly aided by our fourth (little) fingers; point A is vertically above point C and being held there as the dough rests on our second fingers, and arc DBE is toward us. Our first (index) fingers are free.

For the seals of 25 degrees CCW from point E and 25 degrees CCW from point D, we make those at the same time using thumb and index fingers. So, again, we start sealing not with points A and B but from the 'points' (will be points in the final dumpling) D and E.

Then, to form the first extra layers of 20 degrees of arc each, for the 180 degree radial crease, we wrap the dough around our index fingers. Again, starting at point E, the dough of the long arc EBD goes CCW for 25 degrees behind our right index finger, for the first extra layer, makes a radial crease of 180 degrees by wrapping around the tip of our right index finger, goes for 20 degrees along our right index finger, and, for the second extra layer, makes its final 180 degree radial crease. So, the two extra layers are between the right thumb and right index index finger. With the two extra layers between the thumb and index finger, we can squeeze and join the second and third extra layers. Then we can move our index finger to behind the arc from E to A, squeeze with our thumb and index finger again, and complete the pleat. At the time, we do the same with left hand.

Now all that is left is to join the remaining 90 degree arcs.

It might be all wrong, but that's my understanding so far.

[jo-mel]

Is it possible that you could just look at someone while they are making them?

[Dejah]

sigh........................

If I had to follow your directions, I'll never eat homemade dumplings.

From jo-mel's link, I would assume those in the pictures are for boiling.

I have never made these dumplings with pleats.

When I make my ha gow, I use a 35 year old metal tortilla press my Mom bought on a visit to NY. If you cut the dough the right size, roll into a ball before pressing, they come out perfectly round and right thickness. If you find they are still too thick on the edges, just go along the edge and press with index and thumbs, turning the disk as you press. I have, with 3 other friends, on occaision, made about 1000 in a one day marathon!

The best way to learn how to pleat is to find a Chinese grandma! Acouple of turns with her and you'll be pleating with the best of them! My Mom made me practise with acouple pieces of dough until I could pleat before she gave me any filling. You can also try using playdough!

These dumplings are so delicate, I can't see them "standing with only the ends touching.

[jo-mel]

(are our legs being pulled?)

Ah ---- the tortilla press! So handy! I have an old cast iron one and is it ever handy ----especially for scallion pancakes! When I was looking for the press, there weren't many around, and I finally saw one in a hardware store - in two pieced with a ?cotter-pin? to connect them. I got home and put it together, quickly made some dough, put a piece on the press and immediately broke the handle when I pressed down!! I had put the handle on wrong!!! A plumber welded it for me, and since then it has been a work horse.

I see the presses all over the place, now, but they seem to be made of aluminum -- not the heavy cast iron I have. I don't know if the weight makes any difference. For assembly line makings, or even working alone, it is a useful tool.

[Dejah]

jo-mel.

My old one is cast iron and they work the best. A friend from Texas brought one up for me, aluminium, and it doesn't work nearly as well...lack the weight, I think.

It's 3 pm here, I am tidying up my kitchen before the feeding frenzy!

[jo-mel]

Have fun at your dinner --- You deserve it!

And----- let us know how it all went.

[Gary Soup]

For the plane of the arc in the final dumpling.......

I guess you're not known as "project" for nothing...

[project]

Ah, my description of how to fold and seal a dumpling in terms of geometry may not be for everyone! But to me, that is a description that is easy to understand!

One goal I would have, especially just in my own notes, is to get the ideas described in words and without having to use diagrams, photographs, full motion video, or in-person lessons from Chinese grandmothers! In a broad sense, one of the most serious problems in wider dissemination of knowledge about cooking is the strong dependence on learning person to person instead of via written descriptions. Alas, descriptions for dumpling making are something like ones for putting on a coat -- much more easily observed than written!

For pleats, I thought that they were standard! But, then, when I was in college I had a girlfriend who had a skirt with pleats and ..., but that's enough of that!

Good to learn that I should not take too seriously making the wrappers thinner near the boundary of the circle.

Thanks to everyone for the help. Will report back after I have some good results!

[Dejah]

PROJECT:

We will want to SEE results, ie...pictures of picture perfect geometric pleats!

[project]

Dejah:

No, pictures would be inconsistent: When instructions are given just in words, so should the corresponding results! So, for the geometric perfection, if any, of pleats, will have only words.