Paris next month

[MartyL]

Jill and I will be spending a few days in Paris next month and I thought I'd check in here to see if members have any dining suggestions.

We visited a number of restaurants the last time we were in Paris based on posts culled from the archives here, and we had wonderful experiences at, among others: Astrance, La Regalade, Chez Georges, Chez Josephine (Chez Dumonet), Relais Louis XIII, and Willi's Wine Bar.

We will definitely be returning to some of those places, and I'm happy to report that I've been able to book a return visit to Astrance.

So here are some questions to guide your recommendations:

What's the latest discovery we shouldn't miss?

Where are the other La Regalades in town? (i.e., great food and friendly atmosphere at sub 50 Euros?)

Where should we go for Valentine's Day (not including three-stars)?

What are the best of the two-stars and one-stars?

Does anyone have an opinion and/or details to share on the following places: Carre des Feuillants, Au Relais D'Auteuil, Helene Darroze, Les Ormes, L'Ardoise?

Does anyone know of some restaurants that have good wine lists strong in Burgundy and/or Rhone wines at reasonable prices? (Along the lines of Chez Georges or Willi's)?

Apart from dining, is there anything else special going on in Paris in mid-February that we shouldn't miss?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

[robert brown]

Marty, I'm on the Ledoyen bandwagon after a magical dinner there on 12/9. Now a three-star because of the somewhat conservative but delicious cooking of Christian Le Squer that transported me back to the glory days of France in the 1970s and 1980s, I walked out a very happy fellow. The setting in the Carre Champs-Elysee behind the Petit Palais and in its own historical 17th century pavillion is unlike any you will see, with the exception of its neighbor, Restaurant Laurent. Although the service was fine, the staff was stand-offish; really, my only criticism. The prices for the cuisine and the wines are eminently fair given the quality and the gorgeous, opulent interior. We ordered a la carte, but the menu (based on a chosen selection of dishes available on the a la carte side of the menu) had what seemed like the best dishes. My three tablemates each ordered one dessert, but in choosing the dessert sampler, I was served four or five in generous portions. It may well have satisfied the whole table. Certain share one if you are two.

Otherwise at La Regalade I asked for names of places the chef liked. Unfortunately the list his wife(?) gave me is still in France. However, Yves Camdeborde has done a cookbook with some of those chef-restaurateurs. Anyone out there have it?

[Bux]

My great meal at Carre des Feulliants was almost ten years ago. Even a return luncheon was too far back for it to offer a meaningful guess at how the place is today, but I thought the meal then was excellent. The only English I heard spoken except at our table came from a table that was talking about wine as if all or most of the diners were in the trade. Others tell me it was overrun by Americans when they were there. I can only hope the food is still as good. It was well rooted in the southwest--duck, foie gras, truffles, etc. At the time, we had never had anything like his "lasagna" of thinly sliced jerusalem artichokes, truffles and foie gras. Come to think of it, it was like a rich man's la Regalade.

Some years back, we ate in a little restaurant in the 15th--Philippe Detourbe. I thought it an inexpensive gem at the time. We've never been back, but after more than a few meals at restaurants I wanted to try, I regretted not having thought of going to Detourbe instead. It was too chic looking to be called a bistro and the food just a little too sophisticated and inventive to be thought of as bistro food. The hostess was quite charming and "sympa." They offered a set menu of five courses, no choice at all, but they seemed ready to provide an alternative if necessary in the case of allergies. The price was ridiculously low for the quality and I see that it was 37 euros in the 2002 Michelin. The wine list was skimpy if I'm not mistaken, but you'll find something to drink on it. I'd love to know how it's doing these days. The one report I've had since I've been there is that it's still good and that's from someone who frequently spends a whole lot more for dinner.

Another personal favorite is C'amelot on the rue Amelot. It's also a prix fixe with very limited choices. The food is rougher than at Detourbe. By that I mean more rustic. I would those same terms to describe la Regalade.

In the first arrondissement, I enjoyed the wine bar in Legrande. It's approached from the gallerie Vivienne side of the shop. Get there early for a bite of lunch. They feature wines by the glass, or bottles from the shop at a reasonable mark up and plates of cheeses, charcuterie, smoked fish, etc. It's small and not open in the evening. That was a pity as it was near our hotel and I thought it would a nice place for a coffee and nightcap. They also have a large table out in the gallerie and serve wine dinners from time to time. The table seemed unused as part of the normal wine bar operation.

I rather liked the food at Helene Darroze's Salon, but really didn't like the style. I guess it was the wrong time and the wrong style in combination. It's a casual tapas place where most of the clientele sits on deep plush sofas and perhaps at some earlier point in our life we would have found it all romantic, then it was just uncomfortable for eating. Service was erratic but friendly. Then again maybe the service problem was ours for not knowing how small the dishes were and for having to order a second round. Some of the heartier food was quite good and I'd try the more formal restaurant based on what I tasted.

[JJS]

The best two star in Paris at the moment is the Bristol, I have eaten there three times in the last six months and it was better, significantly better, for me than Ledoyen which I actually think is not as exciting as it was a year or 18 months ago. Having said that Ledoyen was very good too, it was just that I thought the Bristol was phenomenal. I was at Carre des Feuillants in November and it was good, sometimes very good, but it was only a standard two star for me, and I would probably give it 17 not 18 in the Gault Millau. Michel Rostang is a step up and is great if you like game - but expensive and probably not worth it if you do not. Whatever you do, do not go to Laurent which, although pretty as Robert mentions, is without doubt the most arrogant and almost racist restaurant I have been to in Paris. The food is good, but I have been there three times, the first my own decision, the others forced on me, and each time they have put the Americans and English in tables that even McDonalds would describe as cramped. The service is wretched, there was a fifteen minute gap between my pigeon arriving once and the sauce being served, I ended up having to pour the wine myself, and when a Texan couple, extremely nice and mild-mannered, complained about being less than a couple of inches away from my table and another table (it was basically a table for six on which they place three couples), the manager just shrugged and said they were welcome to try and find another restaurant with places free on a Saturday night. Ledoyen is very good, I have been so many times however, and always found the menu very similar, but if you have not been before then it may be the best bet. Robert is spot on about the room and location which I love, and I have always found the service to be very good. The wine list is also very reasonable compared to other three-stars.

[grahamtigg]

Otherwise at La Regalade I asked for names of places the chef liked. Unfortunately the list his wife(?) gave me is still in France. However, Yves Camdeborde has done a cookbook with some of those chef-restaurateurs. Anyone out there have it?

The four are Thierry Faucher (L'Os à Moelle), Thierry Breton (Chez Michel), Rodolphe Paquin (Le repaire de Cartouche) and of course Yves Camdeborde (La Régalade).

You will find details and some brief notes here

On the interesting one star front we're actually booked in to Les Magnolias for lunch next week, plus we're returning to Le repaire de Cartouche, so more feedback on these will be available before you go.

[Moondog]

Weighing in quickly:

L'Alsaco, a winstub in the 9th (rue Condorcet) that does the best choucroute outside of Alsace and has an extraordinary Alsatian wine list (unfortunately, the owner, though very friendly and passionate about food and wine, is a National Front supporter...)

The C'Amelot on rue Amelot, which does a superb prix-fixe lunch. The chef has opened a second restaurant nearby--has anyone been?

For Rhone/Burgundy wines: besides Willi's, there's the new wine bar around the corner at Legrand (for a 15 euro corking fee you can sample anything from their cellars). Cold plates only, but very tasty. Try the Rodel sardines. Also nearby is Tim Johnston's Juveniles, a must-stop for vinophiles. And Maceo's.

Also: Le Relais, Ducasse's bistro at the Plaza Athenée, where you'll have access to the 35,000- bottle wine cellar (very strong Burgundy list, especially whites) and good, if not spectacular and only slightly overpriced, cuisine.

Le Passage near Bastille has a strong Rhone list (and 8 types of andouilette!) as does it's sister bar on Charonne, Le Café du Passage, where the food lacks lustre but the wine list is deep.

Valentine's Day? Why not the "grape Room" at Lapérouse, a velvet boudoir for two...

[Bux]

On the interesting one star front we're actually booked in to Les Magnolias for lunch next week, plus we're returning to Le repaire de Cartouche, so more feedback on these will be available before you go.

I shall be interested in hearing about your reaction to les Magnolias. We had lunch there just before we flew home last November. We were coming from the southwest of Paris and successfuly avoided the periphique, not getting lost until we were quite close, but the closer we got the more lost we were. Fortunately we left plenty of time . We were hardly the last to be seated and had a liesurely lunch before heading to CDG. It's probably easier to reach by the RER than by car. We found our way to the station but once there we learned that one way streets were all against us. It was one of those you can't get there from here situations.

Needless to say, with the exception of a few tourist sites, we're totally unfamiliar with the suburbs of Paris. It's a charming place in spite of being basically what I'd describe as a storefront space in which I'd expect some sort of more casual coffee shop. We found the food very inventive and very interesting, although not nearly as successful as Gagnaire or Adria for us. This is not to imply it's in the same vein of either of those two.

[Moondog]

P. Wells covers Le repaire de Cartouche in today's Herald Trib:

http://www.iht.com/articles/83590.html

[hollywood]

Looks like you've gotten a round up of some pretty good spots. On the Valentines front--though I hasten to add I have never been there--everything I've read about Violon d'Ingres says this would be a good pick. On the less expensive end, I would commend, Taira, a French Japanese seafood eatery to your attention. The decor may or may not be to your liking but the fish is excellent. L'Os a Moelle as mentioned is a good value.

Edited to add: it now occurs to me that lunch at Le Grand Vefour could be very romantic. It's romantic enough at night but I believe it would be more so by daylight leading to......

Edited January 17, 2003 by hollywood (log)

[mogsob]

For me, Michel Rostang is the best two star in Paris -- but then again, I'm more of a traditional food fan than cutting edge. I also think that the two most romantic restaurants in Paris are Pre Catalan and Laperouse.

[fresh_a]

Try "Les Magnolias" in a suburb about 25 minutes outside of Paris. The town's not pretty, it's next to an old Renault garage, but, man, this guy can cook! (just got their first Michelin star,too!)

[cabrales]

On Ledoyen, here are lizziee's and my accounts:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...1800&hl=ledoyen

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...8051&hl=ledoyen

Edited January 17, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[Bux]

Try "Les Magnolias" in a suburb about 25 minutes outside of Paris. The town's not pretty, it's next to an old Renault garage, but, man, this guy can cook! (just got their first Michelin star,too!)

I've made a few comments elsewhere about les Magnolias. Chauvel can cook alright, and I was impressed by much about the restaurant including the food, but in addition to finding the food complex, I found it a bit complicated. Although I've discovered I have serious disagreement about Gagnaire with some of the people whose food tastes I most respect, I found I was able to slip into Gagniare's sensibilites and thofoughly enjoy my meal. At les Magnolias, although impressed to a point, I questioned elements on the plate and some of the overall effect. It's not that Chauvel is more experimental that Gagnaire, it's just that I felt he was no where near as successful. And comparing him to Gagnaire is higher praise than I mean to offer here. Still, it's a place I'd recommend for anyone wanting to understand where creativity is these days in French kitchens.

[Felice]

In response to other Regalade type restaurants, I would highly recommend Chez Michel in the 10th. The chef, Thierry Breton, also trained under Christian Constant and the food is excellent. The menu is 30 € for 3 courses.

The neighborhood is not the greatest though, so you may want to take a cab.

Also, in the 15th is Le Troquet. Another great place with remarkable food for the price. The menu is 28 € for courses and 30 for 5, but there is no choice!

I recently had a delcious meal at Alain Ducasses latest restaurant, Aux Lyonnaise, and loved it!

[Bux]

Chez Michel is in a crappy neighborhood, but we had no problem walking to and from the nearest metro, not in taking the Metro to eat there. Of course there's no fool llike a naive tourist and I will note that on the return trip three, or more, plainclothes cops were roughly frisking some guy on the platform of the Metro and apparently taking him into custody.

[lizziee]

For the record, the only time I have had anything stolen at a Metro station was at the Metro stop, Concorde. So much for a "bad" neighborhood. I had my purse open and was putting my ticket in the slot when someone pushed me. I turned to see who was doing the pushing when this man pushed me through those one way swinging doors while taking my purse. He got all my money, my credit cards - everything except my passport.

[weinoo]

Does anyone know the name of Thierry Breton's new bistro -

it's either right next door to Chez Michel or across the street (at #6)? It seems Chez Michel isn't open on Saturday, but this one is.

[Felice]

The name of Thierry Breton's other bistro is Chez Casimir, but according to my Nova, Fooding 2003 it's closed on on Saturday and Sunday too.

The address is: 6, rue de Belzunce. 01-48-78-28-80.

I could have sworn that I've been to Chez Michel's on a Sarturday. I wonder if this is a new thing.

[Bux]

My guess is that new restaurants often open on Saturday or Sunday as a way of establishing a clientele. Once the word is out, they no longer need to do that. Recent changes in French law regarding hours of employment have also changed restaurant times and days of business. It may not pay to hire part time help to open more than five days a week.

[weinoo]

Felice Posted on Jan 26 2003, 11:03 AM

I could have sworn that I've been to Chez Michel's on a Sarturday. I wonder if this is a new thing.

You probably had - but when I called last Friday they said they were not open on Saturdays and that Chez Casimir is...since this is the newer place, Bux may well be right.

Thanks, Felice, for the info!

[Bux]

Bux may well be right.

Now there's a sig just begging to be taken.

Of course if you had two restaurants very near each other and one was far more popular. Closing the popular one on a day the less popular one was open would be a good tactic. If both were equally popular, it still might be worth while alternating days off to keep loyal fans happy.

[weinoo]

Bux may well be right.

Now there's a sig just begging to be taken.

Be my guest!

What's your favorite brasserie for a Sunday dinner?

[vmilor]

I can add very little to what has been said before except:

I had a meal at Chez Michel on January 3rd 2003(friday). It may be as good(or almost as good) as La Regalade. However there are 2 issues with these very popular places. First, 30 Euro is deceptive because more fancy stuff costs extras and with decent wine we usually end up spending 150 or so(still a good value) for 2. Secondly, esp. on busy nights they try to kick you out as soon as they can and do not even welcome innocent maneuvers(such as ordering a digestive) to lenghten your stay. This may ruin a romantic dinner, unless you make a 10pm. or so reservation.

L'Ardoise is so so.

Do you like a whole really fresh grilled wild sea bass for 2 without sauce? The funky(amazingly Michelin gave a star!) Marius et Janette is my recommendation for simple seafood lunch. They also have great apple tart and fondant.

Pre-Catelan is romantic. The cooking is uneven but on the whole I have no qualms about its 2 stars. Service is very kind and good. It will jibe well with the exhibition labeled "The time of Marcel Proust" if it is still going on in the Marais.

I had once had good food and terrible experience with the sommelier at Ledoyen when Ghislaine Arabian was cooking. We went again a few days after the millenium. We had even better food(Le Squer is a very good chef)), esp. re. shellfish and fish(desserts were not on par), but we had a catastrophic experience with the sommelier. I won the battle and got what I wanted(95 Meursault Perrieres from Coche Dury for 550FF), but I lost the war because the whole experience was ruined. I will spare you the details. Hope they are not now distinguishing among people on the basis of French versus others but on a more principled basis, as fortunately the majority of great restaurants in France do.

In the event you visit Les Ormes and/or Les Muses please tell us about them. Both chefs are apparently from the Robuchon network.

[grahamtigg]

I shall be interested in hearing about your reaction to les Magnolias

We found Le Perreux (in daylight) to be a relatively prosperous suburb near the north bank of the Marne to the west of Paris. It’s as easy to get to as anywhere in Paris by public transport – a five minute walk from Nogent-le-Perreux RER station on line E or about a mile or so from Nogent sur Marne on line A, both less than 30 mins. ride from the centre of Paris.

The menu offers three courses for Euro 42. We swapped plates hence notes on six dishes. Their web site has an up to date menu so I've included the 'title' of the dishes.

Amuse bouches of tomato jelly in three layers (the top being a foam) and various diced vegetables with embedded sherbet bombs that pop in your mouth.

Cookies de Lapereau au Grué, Ile Flottante de Cornichons à la Sarriette

et finger de condiment, giboulée de pain de campagne à votre gout

The cookies were delicious moist chestnut flour cakes with nuts, olives and rabbit meat. In the dish itself flaked rabbit meat was in a milky sauce topped with a green (sarriette herb flavoured I assume) mousse. A sublime way to express the relatively delicate flavour of rabbit.

Sensation de Risotto au Céleri Vert "al dente", Lingot de Saumon Fumé

râpée de jeune mangue mêlée de nos poivres

Here appropriately sized pieces of green celery replace the rice giving a clean refreshing counterpoint to the smoked salmon and some interesting bread sticks.

With the entrées come further amuse bouches. Shallots with popcorn, an interesting gin, tonic and lemon liquid and foam creation and a more conventional scallop in a light cream sauce.

Confusion de Cabillaud Poélé Adouci à la Confiture de Lait

nasse de sarrasin remplie d'un retour de pêche fructueuse

Slice of big flaked cod topped with a moist tube buckwheat wrapped around some sweet bits of cod (perhaps from the cheek?).

Oiseau de Rivière Arrosé de Génépi, Croûte de Pollen et Café Torréfié

dés de potirons ensevelis de trévise craquante

Mallard like wild duck breast (i.e. quite dark meat) with small cubes of pumpkin and a trickle of delicate honey and coffee sauce. Can’t say I detected the génépi (apparently it’s an aromatic alpine plant).

With the plats came tepid strong mint tea with orange, mash potato that Robuchon would have been proud of and (to eat last) a mustard macaroon that was far too strong for me.

Evoquant Pain d'Epice aux Parfums de Carottes et Cumin

crème glacée fromage blanc et tuile à grappiller aux arômes de canelle

Sort of carrot cake with spices (but not too sweet), fromage frais ice cream and a tuile with red fruit berries.

Ozonique de Thé à Croquer au Jasmin, Potager de Fruits Rouges

arrondi d'une onctueuse mousse de fraises au poivre de cubebe

Berries on a base of bean shoots wrapped with blanched white cabbage leaf and strawberry sorbet. The poivre de cubebe gave extraordinary lingering hits of spicy mint. The ozonique came as a separate foam topped liquid. Best dessert I’ve had for ages.

Petites fours were relatively conventional but good.

A simple Bourgueil was an ideal luncheon wine that didn't detract from the food.

Jean Chauvel’s dishes give the impression that he can achieve anything technically and his creativity seems reasonably sound – safe hands for offering this sort of fare which is rare. There is much reliance on delicate interplays between several of ingredients. Most of this works well and there are plenty of highs to contemplate. The ongoing amuse bouches certainly add fun and interest if nothing more. The clientele seemed to all be French; the staff generally exuded enthusiasm for the venture and, at the moment, it’s a pricing miracle.

[Bux]

As I may have noted in earlier mentions of les Magnolias, I was far less convinced by these dishes. Nevertheless, I also found enough "fun and interest" to guardedly recommend the restaurant. I also found it extremely interesting that this restaurant in the suburbs was completely full at lunch. To my taste, I found the food still in the experimental stage, although the technical facility, professionalism and sophistication of not only the cooking but every aspect of the restaurant requires respect. That it was supported by the community was both a little surprising and very encouraging to me. At lunch on a Tuesday there was a remakable mix of couples and businessmen filling the dining room. In the end, however, the food did not really leave a lasting impression on us. I had a hard time focusing on any single dish and found too many flavors that just didn't gel into a satisfying dish. I've heard people say that about Gagnaire. Whether it's a limitation I set on food, or just a matter of subjective taste, is hard for me to say. We spent about 135 ? with a reasonable Cotes-du-Rhone, I believe, coffees and a tip for the service and I thought we certainly got our money's worth even if I'm not a fan.