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How do you say "Otto"

Fat Guy

By Fat Guy
in New York: Dining

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Fat Guy

Fat Guy

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
Nina -- Shouldn't a restaurant group's own view of what a restaurant should be called be deferred to?

This one seems like a no-brainer to me too, Cabrales. But I think we're in the minority.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

La Niña

La Niña

Posted
Posted

Cabby, scroll up and read - we've been discussing this very subject.

But anyway - who knows who'd answer the phone? And even if the owners tried to teach the staff a zillion times how to pronounce it, how do you know they can?

Stone

Stone

Posted
Posted
DStone001 -- Leaving aside the merits of your argument, how do you know hensonville is a male user? :wink: Plus, with all respect to hensonville, I am extremely picky (not that I have reason to be, but I am; that's not a statement with respect to only restaurants) and quirky. :laugh:

How do I know it would matter?

Quirky? You think?

Wilfrid

Wilfrid

Posted
Posted
I am extremely ...quirky.

Self-knowledge is a blessing. Not that I am without flaw.

A restaurant can name itself as it wishes, but I don't think it can arbitrarily legislate the pronunciation of the name, especially since, in this case the name is an actual, existing word. Why should they be able to?

Fat Bloke, yes of course one shouldn't ascribe those motives to individuals, but I do wonder where it all started. Everywhere in the language I can think of, an 'o' before a double 't' is short. Whence this affectation to lengthen it because the word is (or derives from Italian?). You see, it's not being Anglicized/Americanized or pronounced correctly. I can live with the former as well as the latter. It's the horrible in-between thing that grates. It really does grate.

jaybee

jaybee

Posted
Posted

Someone needs to explain to me how 104 posts on this subject are a worthy replacement for some of the off-topic chat that is no more. :angry:

Nick

Nick

Posted
Posted
Someone needs to explain to me how 104 posts on this subject are a worthy replacement for some of the off-topic chat that is no more. :angry:

Because it's about some joint in NYC that makes skinny pizzas. :wink:

cabrales

cabrales

Posted
Posted
I am extremely ...quirky.

Self-knowledge is a blessing. Not that I am without flaw.

Wilfrid -- Ah, but you see, I don't see quirkiness as necessarily a flaw. :laugh:

jaybee

jaybee

Posted
Posted
Because it's about some joint in NYC that makes skinny pizzas.  

And what if it was about some joint in Ogonquit that served scalloped pizzas? Would we spend 104 posts discussing how to pronounce Ogonquit?

Stone

Stone

Posted
Posted (edited)

Depends. How do you pronounce Ogonquit?

The issue here isn't how the restaurant chooses to pronounce its name, but how Americans should pronounce an Italian word used in America.

Edited by Dstone001 (log)
Orik

Orik

Posted
Posted
If it served tapas, and was called "Calle Ocho", and the owners asked us to rhyme "Calle" with "alley", would we be as accommodating?

And if it was called "Calle Alley"?

This example is somewhat problematic, as double-l can take on quite a few pronounciations depending on where you're from. I've heard Paella being called Pa-el-la, Pa-e-ia and Pa-e-ja.

M
swissmiss

swissmiss

Posted
Posted
The issue here isn't how the restaurant chooses to pronounce its name, but how Americans should pronounce an Italian word used in America.

Somewhat related: when I moved to Louisiana from Switzerland I pronounced all the first and last names of French origins the way I would have at home. No one understood me because that wasn't the way they pronounced it. So I adjusted my pronunciation to suit theirs, even though it sounds wrong for me to say muh-rie instead of mah-rie. But it was their names, thus their way.

Anne E. McBride

jaybee

jaybee

Posted
Posted
Depends. How do you pronounce Ogonquit?

The issue here isn't how the restaurant chooses to pronounce its name, but how Americans should pronounce an Italian word used in America.

IMHO the topic is I.N.A.N.E., pronounced in-ayne.

cabrales

cabrales

Posted
Posted
A restaurant can name itself as it wishes, but I don't think it can arbitrarily legislate the pronunciation of the name, especially since, in this case the name is an actual, existing word.  Why should they be able to?

Well, the name is an actual existing word in a language *other than* the commonly-utilized language of the country in which the restaurant is located. The deference to the normal pronounciation of the existing word should therefore be reduced.

An analogy would be if I created a French restaurant in New York called "Huit" -- I need not pronounce it like "wheat" (the French pronounciation) because perhaps the word "Huit" was not intended to refer to the French word for eight. The word "huit" has no known meaning in English, the language prevalent in NY. Thus, I could seek to have adopted a pronounciation of "Huit" restaurant in New York as "hoot", for example.

Orik

Orik

Posted
Posted
Because it's about some joint in NYC that makes skinny pizzas.  

And what if it was about some joint in Ogonquit that served scalloped pizzas? Would we spend 104 posts discussing how to pronounce Ogonquit?

Only if the owner would insist on using the !Ora pronounciation.

M
stefanyb

stefanyb

Posted
Posted
Okay.  So what's the correct pronunciation of Les Halles? :laugh: Layz- oll ?  or Lay- Oll?  or Lay-Olluh?

Tony, help!

Hey, this was a real question.

Fat Guy

Fat Guy

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

It would be interesting for a proactive user to reach out to the academic community on this one. Perhaps a google search would yield the names of several professors who focus on language issues of this sort. A few e-mails and who knows, someone might present us with a high level analysis or direct us towards one.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Stone

Stone

Posted
Posted
Depends. How do you pronounce Ogonquit?

The issue here isn't how the restaurant chooses to pronounce its name, but how Americans should pronounce an Italian word used in America.

IMHO the topic is I.N.A.N.E., pronounced in-ayne.

Mah nishtanah, ha-topic, hazeh, m'call ha-tapicot.

jaybee

jaybee

Posted
Posted
Mah nishtanah, ha-topic, hazeh, m'call ha-tapicot.

It might be your nishtanah but it ain't mahn. I'd prefer to to discuss the relative merits of Lucky Thompson and Sven Kveltenson over a cup of hallilohazeh au gratin. :biggrin:

jaybee

jaybee

Posted
Posted
Only if the owner would insist on using the !Ora pronounciation.

True, since the Natick tribe meant to call it Beautiful place by the sea, and in !Ors, it means the disembowled remains of a hyena-eaten carcass, hardly a name for a restaurant that would appeal to any but offal-eaters.

Nick

Nick

Posted
Posted
And what if it was about some joint in Ogonquit that served scalloped pizzas?  Would we spend 104 posts discussing how to pronounce Ogonquit?

No. This has become a ridiculous thread. If Mario could settle things once and for all, perhaps we wouldn't be so distracted by all this.

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