Week in Saigon foodblog

[KennethT]

Jealous.... very jealous....

[huiray]

19 minutes ago, KennethT said:

I still haven't gotten an answer as to why eating raw herbs is safe though.  The herbs are always washed... are they using pre-boiled water, or bottled water for washing them, or do people feel that ingesting such a small amount that would be present on the washed and dried herbs is inconsequential?  In any case, over 7 days or so of eating local food, neither of us got even a bit of a stomach bug...

 

Hmm...my understanding is that many of the herbs grown and used in SE Asian cuisines (and certainly known to be so with Thai basil, for one...) have anti-bacterial properties? It seems to be associated w/ the essential oils in them, so chewing on them as you happily eat along may be sufficient to do the trick?

[KennethT]

I have heard the same thing but have wondered about it the realities of it, since I haven't seen any real scientifically repeatable studies.

[TicTac]

This is a fantastic blog, Kenneth.

 

Thank you for taking the time to share with us.

 

Very interesting regarding the variety of herbs given when ordering Pho.  Here in Toronto, you rarely see anything outside of sawtooth coriander, or vietnamese basil - though a few (and my favourite) place(s) also put chopped the coriander you picture, rau ram.

 

Looking forward to future posts.

 

 

[kbjesq]

2 hours ago, KennethT said:

It was really good... very tender... and the sauce was just made for dipping that banh mi!!

I'm really, really enjoying your photos and storytelling.  Can't wait to visit later this year. Thanks so much for sharing! 

[huiray]

30 minutes ago, TicTac said:

Very interesting regarding the variety of herbs given when ordering Pho. 

 Southern-style phở generally has much more greenery/herbs and condiments served with it; Northern-style phở (thought to be the original version) generally is more stripped down and may use slightly different noodles and vary in the (limited) condiments.

[huiray]

1 hour ago, KennethT said:

I have heard the same thing but have wondered about it the realities of it, since I haven't seen any real scientifically repeatable studies.

 

I don't know the full research history of attempts to reproducibly demonstrate this, but a cursory search of Google Scholar (here, or here) throws up various papers relating to the anti-microbial properties of extracts of basil (I searched for Thai basil) that includes other herbs and spices too...and remember Thai basil = Vietnamese basil (rau húng quế) and is, really, the same species (Ocimum basilicum) as Italian basil. Thai holy basil (Ocimum sanctum/tenuiflorum) is also included in some of them, and ditto tulsi (the variant of Holy Basil found in the Indian subcontinent). At least one paper also included studies on extracts of rau răm (Vietnamese coriander).  :-) 

 

Eh, neither you nor your wife got sick, anyway.

[KennethT]

1 hour ago, huiray said:

 Southern-style phở generally has much more greenery/herbs and condiments served with it; Northern-style phở (thought to be the original version) generally is more stripped down and may use slightly different noodles and vary in the (limited) condiments.

We spent a couple of days in Hanoi about 10 years ago, and had pho bo every morning we were there in a small local place.  There are a few differences between Hanoi style and southern style.  First is the broth.  Hanoi style broth's flavor is primarily of meat.  It is not nearly as aromatic as in the southern style.  Plus, the southern style had a much more pronounced sweetness coming from the broth itself - this could come from using more onion and also adding sugar, which would not be surprising because southern food is typically sweeter than food in the north, most saying because of its proximity to Cambodia and being influenced by those styles (where food is even sweeter than in Saigon).  Also, in Saigon, we saw more variation in broth - some places were very sweet, some not so much, some were intensely spiced with star anise and cinnamon.   In Hanoi, there were very few condiments added once the soup was served - just a squeeze of lime, and some chili sauce that is on the table.  There are no additional herbs provided.  Regarding the noodles, I couldn't say that there was a difference from what we had in Hanoi versus Saigon.  In general, there seems to be a great divide - people in the north generally regard their food as superior to that in the south... that the food in the south just relies on sweetness and herbs and there is nothing else to it.  People in the south regard their food as superior to that in the north - that the food in the north is bland.  This debate has been going on a long time.

[KennethT]

2 hours ago, TicTac said:

This is a fantastic blog, Kenneth.

 

Thank you for taking the time to share with us.

 

Very interesting regarding the variety of herbs given when ordering Pho.  Here in Toronto, you rarely see anything outside of sawtooth coriander, or vietnamese basil - though a few (and my favourite) place(s) also put chopped the coriander you picture, rau ram.

 

Looking forward to future posts.

 

 

Thanks... here in NYC, it is atypical to see anything other than Thai Basil or cilantro (which we almost never saw other in a banh mi sandwich).  We barely ever see saw tooth, and never rau ram... unfortunately....

[KennethT]

Sorry about this - I tried to edit the post a while back about Quan Oc Dao (the second seafood place).... we did get one other dish - these razor clams:

 

They were really good - perfectly cooked, and in chili and butter sauce....  but even still, we had thought we ordered other dishes (like those shrimp), but we never did....

 

OK, I'm exhausted and off to bed... more tomorrow!!!

Edited January 7, 2016 by KennethT
spelling (log)

[pastrygirl]

Yum!  Vietnamese food is the best.  Thanks for sharing!

[huiray]

1 hour ago, KennethT said:

 In general, there seems to be a great divide - people in the north generally regard their food as superior to that in the south... that the food in the south just relies on sweetness and herbs and there is nothing else to it.  People in the south regard their food as superior to that in the north - that the food in the north is bland.  This debate has been going on a long time.

 

Then there is Imperial Huế cuisine...did you get to try this place in Saigon? I'd love to read your thoughts if you did do so! 

[KennethT]

No, we didn't really try Hue cuisine - since we were only there for a week, we wanted to focus on food from the south (except for the banh cuon, and the bun bo hue I had for breakfast at the hotel one day)... we reasoned that we enjoyed Saigon (and Hanoi years ago) so much that we would make an effort to see more of the country in the future, so we would try to visit Hue to have their food at the source.

 

Although, one of the appetizers (the pink sausage wrapped in banana leaf) pictured in your link looked very much like the fermented sausage we had at the banh cuon place.  Also, if you look in the photo of the bun bo hue at the hotel, you can see the fermented shrimp paste, which, when added to the soup was the predominant flavor.

[KennethT]

Back to our regularly scheduled programming....

 

So that night, we decided to go for a treat, grilled chicken!  I had read about an area some have called "chicken corner" which is a street corner where there are about 5 different restaurants selling grilled chicken, or ga nuong.  We had heard that Anh Tu was the best of them, so that's where we headed.  This area is about a 20-25 minute ride from our hotel (about $5 by taxi) in the middle of a completely residential area... we got a lot of strange looks (and smiles) while we were there - I don't think they're used to tourists visiting them but we're really happy we did!

 

We had been trying to stay on a relatively early schedule as we had heard that many Saigonese tend to eat on the early side, and we didn't want to get to a place only to find them sold out, or empty - it's hard to judge whether a place is busy or not (a good judge of food safety) after everyone else has left!

 

So that means that we were driving there during rush hour....  Now, we're from NY - and I actually drive back and forth to work every day as I work outside the city, so I am very well acquainted with rush hour traffic... but this was very different.  First of all, while there are definitely no shortage of cars, most people in Saigon drive motorbikes or scooters.  You'd be surprised what you could put on a scooter... a family of 4, 2 people with one holding a car windshield (I wish i could have gotten a photo of that!), a couple hundred pounds of huge bags of ice....  practically everyone goes everywhere on a scooter.  What, you may ask, do women do if they want to wear a pretty dress?

 

Side Saddle!!!

 

Why am I telling you this?  Well, another thing that you don't see in NY is the relatively small amount of traffic lights...  and for the ones that are there, they are really more of a suggestion than a law... well, maybe it is a law but it's just not enforced... who knows...  anyway, this makes crossing the street at any time a bit of a challenge.  Most Saigonese (we saw this in Hanoi too, btw) tend to have a very laissez-faire attitude when it comes to crossing the street - they don't really bother looking and just step off the curb and start crossing, trusting that the motorbikes and cars will go around them.  Which happens most of the time... although we did see a couple of small incidents here and there...  We got pretty used to crossing the street - the way I came to see it was the idea that you are really weaving through the spaces between the bikes - just as if you were weaving your way through a crowd of people.  Most of the time, traffic moves pretty slowly, and the drivers seem pretty attentive, so they will avoid you either by slowing down, or moving into an empty space around you.  Of course, all of this requires honking your horn... all the time... day and night... the horn honking is endless!!!!

 

So, anyway, the taxi takes us to the chicken corner, but we realize as we're getting out of the car that the restaurant is on the other side of the street... and there is no traffic light or intersection in sight (which can at least slow the traffic or give a little gap in the flow).  So we're standing there, watching the endless parade of bikes passing us by, driving practically shoulder to shoulder in heavy traffic.  So, I take a deep breath, grab my wife's hand and start to step off the curb to find that she is PETRIFIED!  I can't get her to move an inch!  Every time I see a small break, I try to get us into the street, only to have her run the 3 steps back to the curb the second more bikes are in view....  Meanwhile, across the street, a few of the restaurant employees (including an older woman who is one of the owners) are watching us, seemingly laughing at our plight and my struggle to get my wife off the curb.  At some point, the older woman crosses the street to us, so she can help us get across!  She takes a firm hold of my elbow and starts to bring us into the street and gets us across with no problem.  Once across the street, she asks which restaurant we were planning to go to, and after we told her that we were going to hers, she firmly put her hands on my wife's waist and guided her through a maze of alleys to where the seating area of her restaurant was!  She was just what my wife needed... firm and motherly!

 

Here's the scene:

 

Well, I am very very glad that the woman helped us across the street, because that chicken was probably the best grilled chicken I have ever had!  Even my wife said that it was completely worth being traumatized to get it!  We ordered one chicken and a couple of beers - the waiter was very entertained by my speaking vietnamese.... and here it is:

This is a whole chicken, hacked into pieces... in there is of course the legs with feet (and toenails) still attached (they love chicken feet here, as they do in most places in Asia), but also the neck and head (complete with beak and tongue).  It also comes with a couple banh mi, and two sauces - the chili sauce on the left, and the requisite chili/salt with lime... oh and a little dish of pickles and of course, more rau ram (as a bed for the chicken)...  as I said before, this chicken was amazing - the skin had practically all the fat rendered beneath it and was super crispy, while the meat was ridiculously juicy....  It was so good that after we finished it, I decided to order another one!  And, I had though rau ram was tasty before... but covered in chicken juices!!!  wow!

 

Here's an action shot of the grilling:

 

So, the cost for 2 chickens, 3 beers, (and two moist towelettes) was about $10.  Even if it was $100, it would have been totally worth it!

[KennethT]

We woke up early the next day as we were heading out of the city to visit the Cu Chi tunnels, located about 1.5 hours out of the city.  Most people, when visiting this site, will join a tour, so you get on a bus, visit the site, then go to some tourist place for lunch, visit another site in the area, and head back...  But, I read that Graham Holliday book - and in it, he spends a whole chapter talking about a restaurant in the middle of nowhere (actually the town of Trang Bang - right on the road where that famous photo of the girl running through the street naked after an American napalm bombing took place)... so of course, I have to go to this restaurant.  Now, no tour will take you to lunch at this place, so what to do?  Hire a driver!  We talked with the concierge at our hotel, who initially tried to offer one of the hotel cars for the day - I say offer, but at the price of like $600 for the day!  No thank you!  Plus, the idea of pulling up to a local restaurant in a shiny Mercedes does not really appeal to me... I'd just feel too weird...  so after a little runaround, we get to a better idea - you can call one of the main taxi companies and hire a taxi for the day.  The taxi company estimated that our trip would be about 250KM, and take about 9 hours, for which they'd charge 2,500,000 VND or a little over $100....  Sold!  BTW, this is not much more expensive than the cost for 2 people to take one of the cookie cutter tours.  Plus, an additional feature is that we can go to the Cu Chi site that we want, Ben Duoc, which is a little further than the site most people see, but doesn't usually get tour buses so it's not as crowded... plus, they have some tunnels there that have been unaltered to accommodate tourists - they're the original thing (supposedly).

 

The taxi picks us up at 7:30AM and we get to the tunnel site by around 9:30 - the first part of the trip is fine, but as we get closer to the site, it becomes more obvious that the driver doesn't really know where he's going.  This is especially obvious as he pulls off the road to ask questions of people standing around here and there.  The funny part was the reaction of the people, who seemed generally disinterested in helping the poor lost driver... most gave him a hand wave which resembled the Queen of England in a parade, followed by a facial expression that basically said "Go f$ck yourself"...  Of course, along the way, we did pass signs which expressly pointed the proper direction (which I don't think the driver noticed) and after I had pointed them out after circling around, we made it to the site.

 

The tunnels were super interesting.  First we watched a 15 minute propaganda film made in 1969 (for which the guide there apologized a bit), then we were joined by a small group of Australians and we went to the tunnels.  The first tunnel we went to was EXTREMELY tight... you basically get into and out of it via a small manhole cover:

 

Then we went through a few more tunnels.  Some had no lights inside whatsover, so I would take pictures with my camera (with flash) and I could see where to go as I looked at the resulting photo!

 

Notice my wife's eyes - she looks like that because it is pitch dark inside!  This was actually one of the larger tunnels too... the first one we were in was so small, we couldn't bring our bags or cameras because the guide was afraid of them getting damaged.

 

Anyway, after we finish our visit at the tunnels, we get back to the taxi for him to take us to the restaurant I had been dying to go to....  but as we're driving, I get the feeling that we're going the wrong way....  and as I check my Google maps on my phone, I definitely think we're going the wrong way.  So, in the beginning, I feel like I'm in a bit of a bind - I think we're going the wrong way, but since I'm not a local, maybe there's just something I'm not aware of which is causing our route?  The driver probably knows something I don't, right?  Well, maybe 15 minutes goes by as we continue in the wrong direction, so finally I decide to say something.... which is more difficult than you'd think since he speaks absolutely no English...  So I say to him "Do you know where you're going?"  He says yes... I say "I think we're going the wrong way - we need to go in the other direction"... he gives me a puzzled look, but sees me looking at my phone.... so he pulls over and takes out his cellphone showing me the text that his dispatcher sent him with our itinerary...  as I'm looking, I see that the itinerary is in the wrong order - it has us going to lunch last!!!  So I tell him "We want to have lunch now, not later" and then proceed to give him directions on how to get there.  Yikes!!!  I love technology!!!  Anyway, after turning around, and making our way, we find ourselves here:

 

 

This place is known for 2 things, Banh Canh, and Banh Trang Phoi Suong....  Banh Canh is a noodle soup where the noodles are made in a very specific and complicated method... the Banh Trang are rice papers that are (this is true) softened by the morning dew and used to wrap a filling made with various meats and about 12 different herbs, some of which are "wild herbs" that don't really have a name.

 

First we get this - it's the Banh Trang (dew moistened rice paper) that's been grilled so that it puffs up:

 

Here's the complete scene for the Phoi Suong:

On the left is boiled pork meat, then in the other plate some kind of head cheese or other sausage... and on top of that some of the fermented pork sausage that I like so much.  Upper left is a stack of the dew moistened rice paper and of course, you can see the stack of herbs... there's a lot of stuff buried in there... garlic chives, some type of mint, diep ca (the fish mint I talked about earlier), rau ram, saw tooth, thai basil, some kind of herb that looked a little like a fresh bay leaf...  what a collection...

 

Here's a roll being built:

Also, note the dipping sauce - which seems like a fish sauce type sauce (like a nuoc cham) but with black pepper...  the rice paper was very interesting - it wasn't soft, but it was flexible enough to fold around the filling - and it had a bit of chew to it...

 

Here's the Banh Canh:

Notice the black pepper on top of that too.  One thing also, the owner came by (her face is on the sign) and she mimed to us that you're supposed to dip the meat from the soup into the sauce before eating...  The noodles had a very interesting texture, a bit of bite on the inside, soft on the outside, and slightly gelatinous....

 

Lunch was really really interesting (and tasty!), and I'm really glad that I decided to go to such lengths to be able to go there.  After that, we were to go to a very large and famous Buddhist temple, which is the epicenter of Cao Dai Buddhism... which I wound up giving directions to, again... and then directions on how to get back to the road to get back to Saigon!!!

 

What an experience...  I am soooo glad that I took the time to learn a bit of Vietnamese.... thank you Pimsleur!!!!!

[Shelby]

I got claustrophobic just looking at that.  Gulp.  I could not have gone in there.  You are brave folks.

 

Completely taken with the dew softened rice paper.

[KennethT]

Not only was it a tight space, but it was dark, hot and humid....  how people lived in there is mind boggling... but I guess if it's between that and dying...

[KennethT]

On the way back to the hotel (once I was comfortable that the driver knew where he was going) it was time to think about what to do for dinner.  At that point, I had realized that we had been in Saigon for a few days and still not yet had a banh mi (sandwich, not the bread itself)!  This would have to be remedied...

 

First, we decided to go here:

 

This place is very famous...  if you say to a taxi driver to take you there, you don't even need to give him the address - they all know where it is.  Not because lots of tourists go there, but probably because they eat there too.  There was quite a line to order and get your sandwich.  Most people there were locals who would pull up on their motorbike with maybe one or two others... someone would jump off, get in line, and then with sandwiches in hand, jump back on the bike and take off.  Other times taxis would pull up, double park, get their sandwich, then get back in the car and drive off.  There is nowhere to eat your sandwich, which isn't a problem for most people... but what do we, the tourist, with no where to go do?  I don't know about anyone else, but we found a nice unused stoop a couple doors down behind some motorbikes parked on the sidewalk, got comfy and then got down to business, enjoying the awesome sandwich and watching the action on the street go by.

 

Here's a shot of the sandwich making process (sort of):

 

So, a traditional banh mi has some sort of mayonaisse spread, a pate type of spread, a variety of processed meats, then spears of cucumber, pickles, herbs, and chiles if you want (they're optional - I got them, my wife did not... these were probably the hottest chiles I had in Saigon!).

 

Here's the interior of the finished sandwich:

 

And another shot of my wife enjoying her sandwich while taking in the scene:

 

By the time we finished our sandwich, I was still had a little room left and had wanted to try a more non-traditional banh mi, whose location was nearby.  Unfortunately, at this point, my wife was pretty full, but managed to squeek in a bite to try it..  we went here:

 

This is Banh mi thit nuong - which is a banh mi made with grilled pork meatballs...  this thing was a complete flavor explosion!  The woman would take a banh mi roll, warm it on the grill, then cut a slit down the middle with scissors.  She would insert 4 pork meatball patties, cucumber, herbs and some kind of awesome chili sauce...  It's hard to see, but this is a peek inside:

 

 

I loved this sandwich.  Don't get me wrong, the traditional banh mi is really good, but this thing is just over the top.  I can't believe I finished it... I was already pretty full from the first one, but I just couldn't stop eating this one - and I usually have pretty good self control!!!

[KennethT]

The next day, for lunch, we went to this place, Banh Xeo 46A:

 

Tony Bourdain made this place a must stop on the Saigon foodie-trail - but, to be fair, at that point, they were already famous among locals as they'd been in business for about 50 years.  As their name implies, they are known for their banh xeo, a fried crepe filled with pork, shrimp and some bean sprouts.  But they actually have a pretty big menu (in Vietnamese, English and Japanese).

 

We started off with some goi cuon:

These were really good as they had not only shrimp, but were also stuff with slices of boiled pork.

 

But the reason to go is because of this:

The crepe is served with large mustard greens and lettuce leaves (for wrapping), plus a variety of herbs such as saw tooth, thai basil, some type of mint, purple perilla (kind of like shiso) and rau ram.  You take a large leaf, add a piece of the crepe with filling, a bunch of herbs, then dip in the nuoc cham sauce...  Really really tasty - partially because it's an herb bomb, but you also get the great texture of the crepe which is crispy on the outside, and soft and tender inside, with nicely cooked shrimp and pork.

 

Here's an action shot with me attempting to stuff this whole thing in my mouth:

 

And, finally, a shot of the banh xeo making process:

 

I just noticed the box of Ajino-Moto at the bottom of the photo... I guess MSG is an ingredient in there somewhere too!

[KennethT]

Snack time!  This is one of my favorite snacks...

Green mango, with two different dips - one is a salt/chili dip, and the other is some kind of sugar, I think.... anyone have more info?  I've seen variations of this in Thailand too - there, I've seen green mango sold with sugar and chili, and a different dip made with shrimp paste.

[KennethT]

That night, we had our first major problem of the entire trip.  We were trying to go to a place which some said made the best pho in Saigon.  They described it as the best of both worlds of north and south... and rich, meaty broth of the north, enhanced with more spices and herbs from the south.  After wandering around the residential area of Tan Binh for what seemed like forever, we found ourselves in the middle of this:

A dark alley in the middle of nowhere!  Saigon is full of alleys - these are basically unnamed streets that run in mazes behind the larger streets.  No matter how hard we tried, we could not find Pho Phu Vuong.  We even tried to ask people - everyone who we asked seemed to know about the place, yet no one could tell us exactly where it was...  we even asked a very nice young lady working in a clothing store, and she went so far as to go out onto the sidewalk with us, walk down the block to show us which direction to go, only for her not to find it either, and then she would ask others, and they would say it was in the other direction!!!  So, alas, we were never to find the elusive pho... my white whale...  after much walking, questioning, and bit of general frustration, we got in a taxi to head to another pho place, where a different blogger said they had the best pho....

 

This is what we found:

I don't know if I'd call it the best pho in Saigon - or even the best that we had on our trip.... but it was unusual in that it had a very strong spice aroma - star anise and cinnamon...  I could taste it in my head for 20 minutes after we finished!  This was Pho Phuong in District 1.  Unfortunately, I didn't realize at the time that my photo of the sign was completely blurred...

Edited January 3, 2016 by KennethT
spelling (log)

[KennethT]

The next day was our last day.... and so the question of what to do for lunch is a big one... try something new and hope for the best, or go back to an old favorite.... after much hemming and hawing, we decided to go back to banh cuon Tay Ho for more of this:

Oh banh cuon, how I love thee.....

[huiray]

 

21 minutes ago, KennethT said:

After wandering around the residential area of Tan Binh for what seemed like forever, we found ourselves in the middle of this:

https://forums.egullet.org/uploads/monthly_2016_01/20151230_192245.jpg.56e9efc07812c710752e09a201775137.jpg    

A dark alley in the middle of nowhere!  Saigon is full of alleys - these are basically unnamed streets that run in mazes behind the larger streets.  No matter how hard we tried, we could not find Pho Phu Vuong.

 

You mean this place? https://goo.gl/maps/CUJhfG28gQ82  

That's a shame.  I guess showing folks its location on Googlemaps on your smart phone didn't work this time? (The photos of the shop on the photoset on Googlemaps might also have helped?)

Edited January 3, 2016 by huiray (log)

[KennethT]

For dinner, on New Year's Eve, we wanted to go somewhere fun for dinner, but we couldn't go too far because we had heard that the area around our hotel (and most of the other major hotels that are within a 3 block radius) gets cordoned off and gets crazy while people mill around and wait for the midnight fireworks display over the Saigon river.

 

We decided that it would be fitting for our last meal to be at an O'c place, for more snails and seafood....  So, to another place that was highly recommended, Ut Trang:

Unfortunately, I didn't get a photo of the sign, but I borrowed a photo from VietnamCoracle.com

 

This place was really good - they had a menu that even had English translations!   This was helpful since the staff did not speak English...

 

Here's what we got:

A great example of rau muong.... lots of garlic, and perfectly cooked...

 

Some bahn mi next to the sauces....

 

These were translated as Ireland Snails, although I don't think they were from Ireland... maybe they meant Island Snails???  In any case, they were extremely tasty, and fried with salt and chili.

 

Scallops with green onion and peanuts.  These were really good, but the ones we had the second night were just a little better.

 

Grilled Shrimp... these were perfectly cooked...

 

A different type of snail in a coconut sauce.  This coconut sauce was much thicker than the one we had previously... tasty, but thick... I think it was thickened with cornstarch or something...

 

The carnage... I always wondered what people did with the shells if they didn't give you a shell bowl... looking at other tables (or underneath them) gave me a clue, so I figured when in Rome..... throw your crap on the floor....

 

[KennethT]

4 minutes ago, huiray said:

 

 

You mean this place? https://goo.gl/maps/CUJhfG28gQ82  

That's a shame.  I guess showing folks its location on Googlemaps on your smart phone didn't work this time? (The photos of the shop on the photoset on Googlemaps might also have helped?)

 

That's the place, supposedly.... I can't tell you how many times we walked past that corner... back and forth... we must have walked back and forth (with and without help) like 20 times... there was a guy hanging out there who was a motorbike taxi who tried to get us to hire him so that he'd take us there, but I don't think he knew where it was either...