Momofuku Ssäm Bar (2007– )

[Eatmywords]

hmm...I'm all confused.  I'm talking about the pork shoulder in the sort of anise sauce over bok choy as well.  I've had this dish any number of times and I'm pretty sure it's sometimes been listed as tung po pork....but maybe not...

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Nah, they're different, atleast on the Green Bo menu:

Tong Po Pork (with 4 buns) 8.95

Pork Shoulder In Brown Sauce 11.95

[Sneakeater]

That thing we had at Shanghai Cafe was belly, right?

Shoulder wouldn't have that much fat (?). Would it?

[Eatmywords]

That thing we had at Shanghai Cafe was belly, right?

Shoulder wouldn't have that much fat (?).  Would it?

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Yes, I believe so. - Had a thick, even layer of fat across the top about 1/2 inch thick.

[Eatmywords]

hmm...I'm all confused.  I'm talking about the pork shoulder in the sort of anise sauce over bok choy as well.  I've had this dish any number of times and I'm pretty sure it's sometimes been listed as tung po pork....but maybe not...

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No, you had it right. Remember that pic, Larry Lee posted in the Midtown Lunch thread? http://larrylee.org/archives/2006/10/new_yeah_shangh.html

[Nathan]

ah...my alzheimer's hasn't begun quite yet...

sounds like it's a little unclear what exactly makes a pork dish "tung-po"

[Fat Guy]

Tong po pork is supposed to be pork belly. If I ordered tong po pork in a restaurant and was given a big piece of pork shoulder I'd assume either the wrong order was delivered to my table or there was a problem with the English translation of the menu.

Per Eddie Schoenfeld, quoted in the New York Times:

Habitués of Chinatown restaurants know that pork belly is nothing new under the pig. It is on the menu at Shanghai restaurants all over the city, and is treated like other fatty, cartilaginous pieces of meat: it is braised with copious garlic, simmered with a sauerkrautlike preserved vegetable or red-cooked in soy, rice wine and brown sugar. In tong po, the ultimate Shanghai pork belly preparation, the meat becomes incidental and the fat is supreme. ''The goal when you're making tong po is to get the fat really custardy,'' said Ed Schoenfeld, a restaurant consultant and expert student of Chinese cooking. At Yeah Shanghai Deluxe on Bayard Street, the tong po pork is cooked soft and then sliced into petals for serving. Mr. Schoenfeld explained that the flowerlike cut refers to pork bellies' name in Chinese -- five-flower meat, for their three layers of fat and two of meat.

In "A Taste of China: The Definitive Guide to Regional Cooking," author Ken Hom writes:

dong po rou/tung po pork

This delicious dish is named for Su Dongpo, a famous poet, statesman and gourmet from the Song Dynasty . . . . Gentle, long, slow simmering renders the meat into a melting, buttery, tender gastronomic experience. The cut used is pork belly, referred to as "five-flavored" pork in Chinese.

In "Hunger," Terry Durack refers to:

. . . Dong Po pork, from the mystical West Lake city of Hangzhou. Named after the Sung Dynasty reformer and poet Su Dong Po (or Su Tung Po), this is fatty belly pork cooked for four hours with shaohsing rice wine, ginger, sugar and soy sauce until wobbily, shimmeringly translucent.

The recipe in "Cooking with Annie" also clearly states pork belly.

[Sneakeater]

Per Eddie Schoenfeld, quoted in the New York Times:

. . . . In tong po, the ultimate Shanghai pork belly preparation, the meat becomes incidental and the fat is supreme. . . .

.

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I hope my Shanghai Cafe dining companions read that.

(Cut through the fat Jesus Christ.)

Edited February 5, 2008 by Sneakeater (log)

[alwang]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that picture from Larry looks like a big piece of pork belly, not shoulder. It's got even layers of fat and meat that I've never seen on a shoulder.

Another possible source of confusion is that a braised shanghainese pork shoulder is called "ti pang"- maybe that's what you heard instead of "tung po". However, if what you're talking about is what's in Larry's picture, I'm pretty sure that's Tung Po pork belly.

[Nathan]

fair enough...for some reason we thought it was shoulder...

[nikkib]

from looking at the menu on line there seems to be a better choice in the evening? Would you recommend more for dinner than lunch? I also gatehr from teh thread taht you cannot reserve but wait times of about 45mins seem the norm if you go peak time for a table of 3?

[Nathan]

DON'T GO FOR LUNCH.

you won't get a table for three. you will get seats at the bar. wait will vary between 10 minutes and an hour and a half. I'm guessing if you go really early (by 7) you probably won't wait long but I don't eat that early so I'm not sure. it definitely gets easier after 9:30 or 10.

[nikkib]

thanks Nathan, i tend to eat at 930/10ish when i am in NYC as it leaves plenty of time for sightseeing, a big lunch and plenty of cocktails beforehand so that sounds great!

[Nathan]

that mushroom salad is just great.

the pork belly ssam isn't.

[BryanZ]

Am surprised you didn't like it. Why? I thought the texture of the belly meat was actually pretty cool.

[Nathan]

Am surprised you didn't like it.  Why?  I thought the texture of the belly meat was actually pretty cool.

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the razor clams added nothing. the mayo with the pork belly was basically just more of the same. pork belly needs contrast to that unctuous fat. (I think it would work better when split among several people. as the third dish of a meal for one...it was just way too much)

[BryanZ]

That's fair. It's a very rich dish. My minor complaint with it was that there wasn't enough of the razor clam condiment to foil the richness of the meat. The lettuce can only go so far. I sampled it with 3 other friends, so only had it in small doses. To eat the full portion would be enjoyable for me, but daunting. The beauty of Ssam bar, however, is that so few of the dishes taste alike so if you order a couple things, especially in a group, palate fatigue is limited.

[cchen]

I really enjoyed the pork belly ssam the other night...

[Nathan]

the new beef tendon dish is simply upstanding.

[spaetzle_maker]

the new beef tendon dish is simply upstanding.

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I agree - it's really great.

[alwang]

the new beef tendon dish is simply upstanding.

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I agree - it's really great.

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Can someone provide a description?

[Nathan]

it's just well balanced in seasoning and spicing. sort of a Sichuan take.

btw, the house pate is nice too...as were the pickled tomatillos served with it.

[donbert]

With all the drama over Ko's opening did anyone else notice the new After Hours menu at Ssam bar? 50 wines under $50, some of the hits from the regular menu and some new snacks.

Nori Popcorn with pork fat instead of butter

Fried Fingerling Potatoes with spicy aioli

Also something apparently Allan Benton is now curing Berkshire hogs! I got to try some of the Benton's Berkshire Ham last night. It was better than the fattiest o-toro I've ever had in both flavor and texture. There should be more coming in once they run through the regular ham they currently have in stock. My only question is where's the Benton's Berkshire Bacon?

[spaetzle_maker]

I've had some of this ham as well! It's absolutely beautiful. Are the potatoes the same as what is on the skate dish? Thanks for the info Donbert! And that popcorn sounds great! I look forward to trying it out.

[Dave H]

Err...does this mean the full menu is no longer available?

[weinoo]

With all the drama over Ko's opening did anyone else notice the new After Hours menu at Ssam bar? 50 wines under $50, some of the hits from the regular menu and some new snacks.

Nori Popcorn with pork fat instead of butter

Fried Fingerling Potatoes with spicy aioli

Also something apparently Allan Benton is now curing Berkshire hogs! I got to try some of the Benton's Berkshire Ham last night. It was better than the fattiest o-toro I've ever had in both flavor and texture. There should be more coming in once they run through the regular ham they currently have in stock. My only question is where's the Benton's Berkshire Bacon?

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Is this gonna be a reservations only thing After Hours. Cause then it should be impossible to get in!