Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 6)

RoyK · March 19, 2010

Phaz:

I would say short ribs are the one meat that when SV cooked properly, you get a result that is very difficult to replicate with SV. The meat is tender, juicy, more "beefy" in flavor, while not having the consistency of pot roast or chuck roast, which is tender but comes apart in strings. The texture is much more like a great steak.

Brisket is also quite different but not as significantly different as short ribs.

R0Y

Merridith · March 21, 2010

Its been a while since I posted on this thread. I love breakfast, so decided to make soft scrambled eggs.
72 Degree Sous Vide Scrambled Egg
Blend 6-8 fresh eggs with a splash of half and half and a pinch of salt.
Place blended eggs in a food grade bag with a long neck and vacuum seal it (you can place bag over the countertop and seal it.
For me that was between 72 and 73 degrees.
The consistency of the eggs once they came out of the water bath and were cooled. The eggs were super rich and err...eggy. There was a custard like consistency which made the eggs jiggle a bit even on the spoon. Beautiful.

Hello Percyn, Can you tell me about how long, at 72C it took you to get the eggs to this consistency? Thanks.

e_monster · March 22, 2010

This is my first post here. I've been reading the forum though for quite some time.
I've just finished my second homemade waterbath and thought I'd share with you.
It think it turned out quite nice.
I bought a PID from Auber Auber PID 36$
A pt100 sensor from the same place PT100 sensor 16$
For the heater I use a 900W heater from a cheap water boiler it cost me approx. 14$
More images here FLICKR also images on my other waterbath.
Cheers,
Patrik

Very cool. Thank you for posting. Where did you get the water boiler heater?

Is there a relay or anything between the PID and the heater? Or does one really only need the PID unit and the heater?

Does the PID have a fuse?

e_monster · March 22, 2010

Thanks. I hope you don't mind a bunch of questions. Your project's success has me intrigued.

I don't suppose you took pictures of the various stages of construction?

How did you create the holes and seals where the heater element enters the bath?

How is the heater element mounted/connected to the PID?

For your other waterbath, what sort of heater did you use? Did you use the same Auber PID?

Patrik Svensson · March 22, 2010

Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures before it was finished.

But I'll explain in more detail.

First what you want is a heater with the spiral as you can see in the pictures.

The nice thing is that they come with a seal, so just pick it apart from the water boiler.

Then measure the hole in the water boiler and drill a hole with the same size in your bath.

Then insert the seal and screw on the heater. Quite simple.

I used the same kind of heater but a 2000W for my other bath.

The PID is not the same it's an on/off kind. So I'd go for the Auber.

I've search alot on the net and this is the best I could find that didn't cost alot of money.

One other thing for the heater, it usually also come with a automatic overheating thing.

I just removed all that stuff.

All the electricity is wired to the PID and soldered to the heater (I'm not sure of my english here!)

Hope this helps, I could maybe take some pictures of the inside if you like.

Paul Kierstead · March 22, 2010

Patrik, that is seriously cool. I just squeezed 3 short ribs into my poor rice cooker and have been contemplating how to get more capacity; that is seriously good idea you have going there, especially the source of the coil. I'd be curious how the pump holds up. I may have to contemplate.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Paul Kierstead (log)

PedroG · March 23, 2010

Hi Patrik,

congratulations for your very nice job!

I wonder how long the 3A relay contact of your Auber Universal 1/32 DIN PID Temperature Controller will support the 4A your 900W heater will draw. Anyway, if the relay conks out, you can use the 8VDC SSR output to control an external Auber 25A SSR (15$).

What cycle time do you use?

Did you already try your pump at 80°C? If it really supports 80°C, will you please let the communitiy know? Other pumps have been reported to go belly up somewhere between 60°C and 90°C (personal communication by Robert Jueneman), so many of us might be interested in a pump supporting 80°C. And a pump is definitely less noisy than an aquarium bubbler.

Pedro

Patrik Svensson · March 23, 2010

I will try the pump at 80C for approx 10h and report back tomorrow.

I really hope the pump works because it is hard to find any other good ways to circulate the water.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know.

And you are right Pedro, the heater draws 4A and the PID has a 3A relay so that might be a problem.

Please do as Pedro suggests and go with the extra relay instead to be sure!!!

And if you use a more powerful heater you must use the extra relay.

In my other bath I have a 2000W heater and an extra relay.

I used the autotune and haven't checked the PID parameters yet.

PedroG · March 23, 2010

The other way to circulate water is an aquarium bubbler, but use the air-stone only as a weight to keep the tube in place, cut one or two sideward holes in the tube just above the air-stone. The larger bubbles will rise faster and make more turbulence and less cooling by evaporation than the tiny bubbles from the air-stone. I routinely replace the indoor fountain pump by a bubbler for temperatures above 60°C.

Patrik Svensson · March 23, 2010

Yes, my other bath uses a bubbler and I will use that for temps above 60C and use my new bath for lower temps.

But I will anyway try the pump at 80C for 10h as an experiment.

Andrew Chalk · March 23, 2010

Well first attempt came out ok.. The meat was just slighty over cooked and I thought dry.. The meat was a medium dark pink and cooked so evenly..(have photos later) However, I was looking for a more meaty medium rare..My girl felt it was better then I thought.. We had it going for about 12 hours at 130. I might want to drop the temp to 122 and see the results.
I put a little chocolate in the sous vide bag.. I dont think it dried the meat out.. It did make a wonderful sauce..

A little late but, if you haven't passed on, what type of chocolate do you recommend?

Thanks!

Guy MovingOn · March 23, 2010

I marinaded aberdeen angus beef brisket for 2 days with a combination of smoked chilli, smoked salt and pepper, liquid smoke, some butter, and some paprika.

I then cooked it at 55C for 50 hours (was aiming for 48 hours, but got a little delayed).

I have to say I was disappointed. Of course I have had brisket in many other forms and definitely the sous vide was extremely different.

The meat was very tender indeed, it was like it had transformed into a totally different cut of beef.

However, even though it was juicy, I found the mouth feel to be very dry after the first few chews.

I also prefer my beef to be more rare. This wasn't particularly pink... closer to medium than medium-rare.

I trimmed off quite a bit of the fat, but next time I would not, as the fat had a lovely flavour, and provided more moisture to the meat, which felt too dry to me.

I then served it with an adaption of Heston Blumenthal's Perfect Roast Potatoes, using goose fat instead of olive oil, and some smoked chilli, salt, and pepper blend. Also served with some sauteed carrots with salt, pepper, and honey.

Close up of the beef:

The liquid you can see is the juice from the bag reduced a little, strained, and then had some butter incorporated, then a couple of spoonfuls over the beef.

Next time I would like to cook it a couple of degrees cooler since I prefer my beef more pink. Furthermore, since this was an Aberdeen Angus cow, perhaps it was more tender than most briskets anyway, so the 48 hours (50 in my case) was a bit too much, and resulted in the drier texture. I would be tempted to try around 36 hours or so next time

Edited March 23, 2010 by Guy MovingOn (log)

Paul Kierstead · March 23, 2010

I then cooked it at 55C for 50 hours (was aiming for 48 hours, but got a little delayed).

Have you cross checked the temperature? I find that 55C results in meat more then a little pink. Of course, I haven't done it for 48h (but will this evening when I pull out some short ribs), but have for 24h.

Guy MovingOn · March 23, 2010

I haven't since my only other thermomter is one of the Maverick wireless dual probe types, and since I'm using a laboratory PID controlled water bath with 0.1C resolution, I presume the waterbath will be more accurate than the commercial thermometer.

Also, I'm a big fan of not-pink-but-red steak! haha, I dunnoo, I just like it seared on the outside and nice and purple and rare in the middle. So it could be my on personal preference. Actually the meat was pink, just not pink enough for me!

Guy MovingOn · March 23, 2010

I also cooked some pork ribs at 72C for 20 hours! Bit of a random temperature/time combination... but I looked a few different sous vide recipes, and made a compromise based on my time constraints!

I have to say, they were soooo awesome!!!! So soft! Really delicious! And the ribs only cost about £2!

I bagged them with a budweiser honey bbq marinade, some smoked chilli, salt and pepper, and some liquid smoke

Don't ask me about the presentation... my girlfriend wanted to play on the mandoline slicer with some carrots....

I also reduced the juices from the bag and poured it over the ribs!

They were awesome. Next time I would use more marinade... and reduce it to a sticky glaze and pour that over!!!

Paul Kierstead · March 23, 2010

I haven't since my only other thermomter is one of the Maverick wireless dual probe types, and since I'm using a laboratory PID controlled water bath with 0.1C resolution, I presume the waterbath will be more accurate than the commercial thermometer.

Resolution (or precision) does not translate to accuracy. Your bath could easily have a temperature offset. I'd check with a few friends for a good thermometer (hopefully checked recently) and try it out; it might be right, or wrong, but is definitely worth checking.

PedroG · March 23, 2010

I fully agree, calibrating your sensor / PID-controller at 55°C would be highly recommended. My 55°C/48h-briskets always come out pink.

See earlier discussions on thermometer calibration in this thread, e.g. and , as well as http://sousvide.wikia.com/wiki/Thermometer_calibration .

On juiciness see , so maybe juiciness in continued chewing might be enhanced by a sauce (try ).

e_monster · March 23, 2010

If it was only slightly pink, I am suspect of the calibration. If you haven't checked the calibration against something (you can use a good quality fever thermometer at 100F to get a good idea--though keep in mind that the fever thermometer might be .4F off)

Take a look at my pictures (search this thread for brisket). At 133F which is about 56C, the meat is very pink. Here is a picture of a recent brisket I cooked at 135F

Also, I would not marinade for days. Just put a little marinade in the bag before you cook. My experience is that long marinading before a long cook has a negative impact.

Fat won't render at these temps. So, if you trim less, you will have more solid fat on the meat. Brisket will be a bit dry unless you have a really good quality brisket in my experience.

I haven't since my only other thermomter is one of the Maverick wireless dual probe types, and since I'm using a laboratory PID controlled water bath with 0.1C resolution, I presume the waterbath will be more accurate than the commercial thermometer.
Also, I'm a big fan of not-pink-but-red steak! haha, I dunnoo, I just like it seared on the outside and nice and purple and rare in the middle. So it could be my on personal preference. Actually the meat was pink, just not pink enough for me!

e_monster · March 23, 2010

I marinaded aberdeen angus beef brisket for 2 days with a combination of smoked chilli, smoked salt and pepper, liquid smoke, some butter, and some paprika.
I then cooked it at 55C for 50 hours (was aiming for 48 hours, but got a little delayed).
.....
Next time I would like to cook it a couple of degrees cooler since I prefer my beef more pink. Furthermore, since this was an Aberdeen Angus cow, perhaps it was more tender than most briskets anyway, so the 48 hours (50 in my case) was a bit too much, and resulted in the drier texture. I would be tempted to try around 36 hours or so next time

You mention that you want to cook the brisket next time at less than 55C. In my opinion, it would not be safe to cook meat sous-vide for a long time at less than 55C. In fact, I don't advise cooking at 55C for a long time unless you have a lab grade thermometer in the bath since you are right at the edge of the lowest temperature approved for pasteurization. The Maverick is not very good quality. I have one and mine is always 4 to 6 degrees off with the offset being random in that range. I called the company and they did not consider that degree of error to constitute a defect -- and refused to replace it or exchange the probe.

Btw, while we like sous-vide brisket our best briskets have been very good but not sublime -- whereas short ribs can be sublime. But that is just my taste.

Guy MovingOn · March 23, 2010

Hey guys, I really appreciate all the feedback! Thanks for your suggestions!

This is a laboratory PID controlled waterbath, so it has the most accurate thermometer that I own. I will, however, go to the health store tomorrow to get some fever thermometers to double check.

These are the specifications of the waterbath:

Tank Volume, liters 9.5

Useful Volume, liters 7

Temperature Range Ambient Temperature +5ºC / 99.9ºC

Temperature Sensor Fe-Const

Control System Programmable PID Microprocessor

Temperature Set and Display Sensitivity 0.1 ºC

Temperature Uniformity <40ºC ±0.2ºC

Temperature Stability ±0.1ºC

Timer 99.9 hours + Hold position

Delayed Start Timer 1 min. to 99.9 hours

Internal Material 304 Stainless Steel

External Material Epoxy-Polyester Powder Coated Steel

Power Supply 230V, 50/60 Hz

Power Consumption 800 W

Internal Dimensions (WxDXH) mm 240x300x150

This is from the manual:

"The Tank of the bath is made of seamless corrosion resistant stainless steel for a longer life time and easy cleaning. By means of the smooth surfaces of the tank, the risk of contamination is minimised. The sheet heaters are placed on 3 sides outside of the tank, the use of a PID control system and triple insulation consisting of glasswool, an aluminum layer layer and an air gap, gives this water bath an excellent temperature uniformity and stability."

The other factor could be that despite having 3 sides heated, extremely well insulated, and PID controlled - there isn't forced circulation. Furthermore, the tank size is just over 7 litres, which is perhaps not big enough?

Marinading for days - I was inspired by PedroG's recipe for sous vide beef stroganoff using beef brisket.

In terms of cooking below 55C, in this thread it has been noted that food poison-causing bacteria can not grow above 49C, and even at that temperature was due to the "pheonix phenomenom" which could only occur in a laboratory - according to Douglas Baldwin.

Of course - I should check the accuracy of my waterbath before cooking at such a dangerous boundary for a prolonged period of time.

The brisket was the best quality I could get my hands on. It was from the supermarket, but Tesco Finest Aberdeen Angus from their meat butcher counter. I am a university student, and the town where I live doesn't have any butchers since it is mainly catering for students who cannot cook! There is however a Waitrose which might be higher quality, otherwise I will have to Google any butchers close enough that I could walk to.

I was thinking to cook the brisket at 52C to still give myself some margin of error (after checking the accuracy). But I'm unlikely to eat brisket anytime soon again, since my girlfriend wasn't particularly impressed and it is a bit annoying to have the waterbath occupied for 2 days.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Guy MovingOn (log)

Guy MovingOn · March 23, 2010

I would really like to try short ribs. I do not think they are popular here at all in the UK, but I had some when I was skiing in Breckenridge a couple of months ago, and they were f**king delicious! I would really love to try them. Perhaps when I can find a good butchers close-by, I will give them a try!

I may also try sous-videing a rib-eye steak to see how it compares

Andrew Chalk · March 23, 2010

Has anyone done duck confit? You basically just take the legs and cover in traditional rub for a day or so.. Then cover in duck fat and cook at 85 C? I have seen NathanM on the early threads say 80 at first then say 82.2 C

traditional rub? Please define for the benefit of us neophytes. Thansk!

lesliec · March 24, 2010

I can't speak for what Daniel had in mind, but I've had great results bagging my duck bits with salt, pepper, orange zest and a tablespoon or so of duck fat (sounds pretty traditional to me!). A fairly high temperature certainly seems to work best - I go for 78-82°C for 12 hours or so.

Well, look at that - I've just spent weeks reading the whole thread and here's my first post in it! Huge thanks to the usual suspects for all their insights.

**nickrey** · March 24, 2010

I have done duck confit for around 12 hours at 82 degrees. It worked well.

The fat in the duck rendered out very well so I didn't both putting extra fat in.

Guy MovingOn · March 24, 2010

The Maverick is not very good quality. I have one and mine is always 4 to 6 degrees off with the offset being random in that range. I called the company and they did not consider that degree of error to constitute a defect -- and refused to replace it or exchange the probe.

Yeh I got the impression that it wasn't very good quality... what a waste of about $60.

I'm tempted to get one of these, maybe with their calibration certificate too:

http://www.burntechshop.com/easyview-type-dual-input-thermometer-with-dual-readings-p-204.html?osCsid=8510db0eb482f5f4a7e60a62d0088025

But right now the precise temperature is not really that much of a concern, as I will most often cook for less than 4 hours in the danger zone, and most often will cook at temperatures 55C+ and calculate my times based on pasteurisation, with plenty of margin for error.

I'm going to get a fever thermometer first, just to cross check my PID laboratory water bath

Edited March 24, 2010 by Guy MovingOn (log)