Best brand of knife: 2011

[jfresch]

What are some of the best brand and models of knives that are currently on the market? What are most professional chefs using in their kitchens?

I am currently looking in to getting a carving knife and am torn between the Wustof Ikon, Global, Henckels Twin Profection, and Henckles Cronidur. What are your thoughts on these knives and am I overlooking any others?

Thanks

[jfresch]

Henckels Miyabi 600 MC Morimoto Slicer or Misono UX10?

[ScottyBoy]

The search function is your friend

I am using wustof ikon and love it.

[ChrisTaylor]

Why don't you find the oppurtunity to test--or at least hold--the knives in question? All three companies make fine knives but all three feel different (due to handle design, weight, etc) in the hand. There's no point buying my favourite brand of knife--or some knife that many professionals prefer--if it causes you discomfort.

[HowardLi]

What's your budget?

This one for cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-12-Inch-Granton-Slicing-Fibrox/dp/B0000CFDB9/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1317014025&sr=1-1

This one for pricey: http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HattoriForumHighEndChefsKnives.html (FH-14)

Edited September 26, 2011 by HowardLi (log)

[Broken English]

I love the design of the Shun handles, they're really comfortable to use for long periods, although after a while the blade seems to get harder to bring back the razor edge (the guy who used to sharpen my knives told me it has something to do with the blade shape and design).

[ScottyBoy]

Personally, I really like a european style of knives because of the confortable hilt to grip.

[Keith_W]

With a chef's knife, you have two basic choices: European (mostly German) or Japanese. Here are a few generalizations about both.

European knives are generally made with softer steel, Japanese knives with harder steel. If the knife encounters something hard (e.g. a bone), soft steel is more likely to bend. Hard steel is more likely to chip. Hard steel stays sharper for longer, soft steel needs more frequent steeling. Once the knives go blunt, soft steel is easier to sharpen.

Japanese knives are also more "sharpened" than European knives. Japanese knives have a blade angle of 17deg, most Euro knives are 23deg. Again, this means that Japanese knives are sharper - they slice through veggies like butter.

Look also for differences in construction. European knives tend to be heavier, Japanese knives tend to be lighter. You want a knife which feels balanced in your hand - both Euro and Jap knives can be unbalanced, but this depends on how you grip your knife. Euro knives tend to have a heel guard, so your fingers aren't pressing against the naked blade as it would in a Japanese knife.

Sum up: Japanese knives are sharper but require more care with day to day use, and more maintenance. European knives are not as sharp but tolerate more abuse, and are easier to maintain.

[Mano]

With a chef's knife, you have two basic choices: European (mostly German) or Japanese. Here are a few generalizations about both.

European knives are generally made with softer steel, Japanese knives with harder steel. If the knife encounters something hard (e.g. a bone), soft steel is more likely to bend. Hard steel is more likely to chip. Hard steel stays sharper for longer, soft steel needs more frequent steeling. Once the knives go blunt, soft steel is easier to sharpen.

Japanese knives are also more "sharpened" than European knives. Japanese knives have a blade angle of 17deg, most Euro knives are 23deg. Again, this means that Japanese knives are sharper - they slice through veggies like butter.

Look also for differences in construction. European knives tend to be heavier, Japanese knives tend to be lighter. You want a knife which feels balanced in your hand - both Euro and Jap knives can be unbalanced, but this depends on how you grip your knife. Euro knives tend to have a heel guard, so your fingers aren't pressing against the naked blade as it would in a Japanese knife.

Sum up: Japanese knives are sharper but require more care with day to day use, and more maintenance. European knives are not as sharp but tolerate more abuse, and are easier to maintain.

Having used both I disagree with ease of sharpening/maintainance, ability to tolerate abuse and chipping.

For 50/50 bevel blades sharpening is a skill equally common to both; the difference is mainly in the angle. Putting a good edge on a Japanese knife may take a bit longer at first but maintenance is pretty quick. I believe a good Japanese workhorse knife can take daily restaurant kitchen abuse and still maintain a good edge better than German knives. Sure, you can truly abuse a knife, but for practical purposes chipping is really a concern when getting into thin very hard steel (HRC 62+) blades.

There are so many types of steel used for both types it's easy to find the right one for you. Same with shape of handle -western vs. Japanese (wa).

Here's some basic info, albeit somewhat biased:My link

Here's more information: My link

Edited September 26, 2011 by Mano (log)

[Keith_W]

Having owned a couple of Wusthofs and a couple of Shuns, I stand by my assertion NOT to use Shuns for chopping. It will chip if you accidentally hit a bone.

[budrichard]

"What are some of the best brand and models of knives that are currently on the market? "

There is NO best brand.

All you listed will cut well.

You will read all sorts of opinions on Metallurgy, shape and style and that's what they are, opinions.

You have to from your own opinion. As suggested find a store where you can at least handle each knife as hands are different as are handles. The handle on a Wusthoff is in relation to the blade size so depending on whether you hand is small or large, that will determine blade length.

Your budget will certainly enter into the decision for this and future knives. I like to keep all my knives in a couple of basic families for similar cutting feel.

There are some cusotm makers that make blades that are what i call 'scary sharp' but that is not the subject of this Thread.

What I would do is stay clear of the mass marketed low cost blades as they usually cut fine out of the box but are a bitch to sharpen.

For the record i have complete sets of Wusthof Cordon Bleu and Wusthof Classic with a set of Japanese traditional blades and a number of Customs made for me for individual needs.

All in all the Cordon Bleu get the most usage except when I need a shape not manufactured in that line.

"What are most professional chefs using in their kitchens?"

Chefs are like the rest of us and use what they like. They advertize what they can get paid for.-Dick

Edited September 26, 2011 by budrichard (log)

[Country]

What budrichard said. As he and ChrisTaylor suggest, it's best to find a store where you can handle the different knives.

Except for my fish fillet knife (old Schrade) I use Wusthof Classics, but something else may feel better to you.

[jfresch]

Has anyone heard anything about the Morimoto line of Henckels, specifically the Miyabi Morimoto 600 MC Slicing Knife? I have handled the chef's knife and loved how it felt but want to make sure these things are built to last. It has a hardness of 63 rockwell which to me is both great and not so great.

[rotuts]

people tend to over look Granton Knives, with the true granton edge.

http://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?manufacturerID=6

I have this one with a red poly handle:

http://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=2104

I love it. I have the edge-pro system for keeping these sharp the steel is good quality and thin.

their boning knives are my favorites:

http://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?productLine=730

http://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=2108 and

http://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=3531

they will send you a catalog from england:

http://www.granton-knives.co.uk/

why they dont have a .pdf catalog and price list Ill never know.

Red Handles are Best!

Edited September 26, 2011 by rotuts (log)

[Mano]

Having owned a couple of Wusthofs and a couple of Shuns, I stand by my assertion NOT to use Shuns for chopping. It will chip if you accidentally hit a bone.

Good point, I also used my Wusthof chefs when chopping a thicker bone as I would a cleaver, which is the best tool for the task. But those are pretty rare occasions. A decent honesuki adds another knife to a kit but is ideal for breaking down chickens, roasts, ribs and so forth. I wouldn't use it to chop on bones though.

I'd venture that 80% of knife use including chopping veggies, etc. is done by a chefs type knife. A good gyuto is the way to go, IMHO.

[ScoopKW]

I asked this exact question here years ago.

Since then, I've learned that:

1) Brands don't matter.

2) Usually there one knife that is superior (for me) for each knife style. Sometimes they're cheap. Sometimes they're very expensive.

3) Since nobody has answered one of your questions: What are most professional chefs using in their kitchens? Mostly cheap restaurant-store knives. Good knives get stolen. It's not nine out of 10, it's more like 95 out of 100. White-handled 10" chef's knives that cost $40 is the usual brand for the professional chef. This doesn't hold true in sushi-world, however, where knife cost appears to be a surrogate for penis size.

4) Learn how to sharpen whatever knives you have first before going out and buying pricey knives. It doesn't make ANY sense to practice changing edge geometry on a $2,000 Hattori KD. Go out and buy a set of sharpening stones first. No matter what knife brand(s) you go with, a good set of stones is a must have. It's money very, very well spent. Besides, your current knives might not be all that bad.

5) Speaking of edge geometry, that is far and away the most important thing about a knife. I like a single-bevel. Once the edge is put on the knife, it is a lot easier to maintain than a v-bevel. The tradeoff is that it's a little harder to cut straight down through vegetables. The knife "pulls" in the direction opposite of the bevel. Keeping the knife more-than-razor sharp makes that a non-issue.

6) Everyone here is going to tell you, "Go try the knives out for yourself!" I think that's a load of crap. First, your area probably doesn't HAVE a decent knife store. The white-handled special and maybe some Wusthofs is the best they'll offer. Second, there's a BIG difference between dicing an onion in the knife store, and dicing 20 cases of onions in the kitchen. You're only going to find out if the knife is "your knife" after long hours of repetitive use.

My advice is to go to knifeforums.com, and see what the knife nuts over there are currently buying. Buy that. THEN, if you don't like the knife, sell it to one of those guys for 90% of what you paid for it. That's the cheapest way to get your hands on what amounts to a knife rental/audition. Provided you don't completely ruin the knife with bad sharpening practices. Seriously, get stones first and learn to use them. Get to the point where you say, "Professional knife sharpener? Not on my knives, baby." Only then should you go knife shopping.

Edited September 26, 2011 by ScoopKW (log)

[Country]

6) Everyone here is going to tell you, "Go try the knives out for yourself!" I think that's a load of crap. First, your area probably doesn't HAVE a decent knife store. The white-handled special and maybe some Wusthofs is the best they'll offer. Second, there's a BIG difference between dicing an onion in the knife store, and dicing 20 cases of onions in the kitchen. You're only going to find out if the knife is "your knife" after long hours of repetitive use.

Get a grip, Scoop! He's looking for a carving knife. Not dicing 20 cases of onions for thousands of wackos shoving food into their mouths in between playing the games in your Las Vegas casino.

And my recommendation stands. If possible, get to a store that has some knives and see which one feels most comfortable.

[ScoopKW]

6) Everyone here is going to tell you, "Go try the knives out for yourself!" I think that's a load of crap. First, your area probably doesn't HAVE a decent knife store. The white-handled special and maybe some Wusthofs is the best they'll offer. Second, there's a BIG difference between dicing an onion in the knife store, and dicing 20 cases of onions in the kitchen. You're only going to find out if the knife is "your knife" after long hours of repetitive use.

Get a grip, Scoop! He's looking for a carving knife. Not dicing 20 cases of onions for thousands of wackos shoving food into their mouths in between playing the games in your Las Vegas casino.

And my recommendation stands. If possible, get to a store that has some knives and see which one feels most comfortable.

I spend many hours a week carving meat for wackos.

Here's a link for my carving knife. It's as close as one can get to carving meat with a lightsaber.

And my recommendation stands -- learn to sharpen, learn about edge geometry, then go knife shopping.

[HowardLi]

6) Everyone here is going to tell you, "Go try the knives out for yourself!" I think that's a load of crap. First, your area probably doesn't HAVE a decent knife store. The white-handled special and maybe some Wusthofs is the best they'll offer. Second, there's a BIG difference between dicing an onion in the knife store, and dicing 20 cases of onions in the kitchen. You're only going to find out if the knife is "your knife" after long hours of repetitive use.

Get a grip, Scoop! He's looking for a carving knife. Not dicing 20 cases of onions for thousands of wackos shoving food into their mouths in between playing the games in your Las Vegas casino.

And my recommendation stands. If possible, get to a store that has some knives and see which one feels most comfortable.

I spend many hours a week carving meat for wackos.

Here's a link for my carving knife. It's as close as one can get to carving meat with a lightsaber.

And my recommendation stands -- learn to sharpen, learn about edge geometry, then go knife shopping.

If Obi-Wan is any indication, I don't want any lightsabers coming near my meat.

[Country]

6) Everyone here is going to tell you, "Go try the knives out for yourself!" I think that's a load of crap. First, your area probably doesn't HAVE a decent knife store. The white-handled special and maybe some Wusthofs is the best they'll offer. Second, there's a BIG difference between dicing an onion in the knife store, and dicing 20 cases of onions in the kitchen. You're only going to find out if the knife is "your knife" after long hours of repetitive use.

Get a grip, Scoop! He's looking for a carving knife. Not dicing 20 cases of onions for thousands of wackos shoving food into their mouths in between playing the games in your Las Vegas casino.

And my recommendation stands. If possible, get to a store that has some knives and see which one feels most comfortable.

I spend many hours a week carving meat for wackos.

Here's a link for my carving knife. It's as close as one can get to carving meat with a lightsaber.

And my recommendation stands -- learn to sharpen, learn about edge geometry, then go knife shopping.

Scoop. You have to help me out. In your earlier post you wrote:

"3) Since nobody has answered one of your questions: What are most professional chefs using in their kitchens? Mostly cheap restaurant-store knives. Good knives get stolen...."

Now, in your last post, you give a link to your carving knife - which retails for $315! What's going on here?

At any rate, I'm assuming that jfresch is just looking for a decent carving knife for home use, may not be interested in the intricacies of edge geometry, or carving meat with a lightsaber.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Country (log)

[budrichard]

"This doesn't hold true in sushi-world, however, where knife cost appears to be a surrogate for penis size."

One has to try to understand the cultural significance of Japanese knives and specifically those manufactured for sushi/sashimi. These are more than a tool for a Japanese chef and will stay with the chef for the rest of his career. The making of the blade also has significance for the maker as well as the user. These are not some mass produced blades made by the hundreds of thousands but individual works of knife-making art made to both satisfy an artistic as well as actual need. Consequently the costs are high as the knives are made by single artisans in Japan, even those sold by Japanese supply houses in the US even if sold under a factory designation. I started 30 years ago with a commercial 23cm blade purchased from a Japanese restaurant supply house in Chicago. It was three part blade and still works very well to this day but it is wearing. Japanese chefs order long blades (33cm) because the knife will wear over the course of their career. My next blade was assisted in purchasing by Murray Carter (a significant knife maker in his own right) and came from one of the best if not the best in Japan. It is 27cm and is ebony/ivory with ebony sheath. These knives rarely make it out of Japan and it is a cultural work of art as well as tool. My last knife was 30cm long as my knife skills have become more adroit, from a Japanese knife maker that I meet at the US Knife Shows he attends. Although not as finely finished, it certainly does the job.

As for 'knife nuts', I have collected Custom Knives for over 40 years and have a Graduate Metallurgy background. I would peruse the various Knife Forums but be aware that the collecting and technical aspects often cloud the judgements over use of the knives in question.

As for "I think that's a load of crap", certainly a judgement that offers no real help to this Thread. As I stated, Wusthof handles are sized appropriate to the blade length and you must determine what you are comfortable with, I'm certain that you will have a few stores within driving distances that will have a few of the brands to try.

For carving I have blades from 6" to 12" and my favorite is a 9" carver custom made for me by Bob Dozier. It would be longer but thats about the length of the average heat treating oven these guys use. It is what I call 'scary sharp'.

If you want the ultimate in carver, call Bob and ask for a 9" carver made with the 'Large Elk Hunter' handle, its not cataloged. It comes with a Kydex sheath and should be kept in the sheath because Bob's knives 'bite'!-Dick

[ScoopKW]

Now, in your last post, you give a link to your carving knife - which retails for $315! What's going on here?

At any rate, I'm assuming that jfresch is just looking for a decent carving knife for home use, may not be interested in the intricacies of edge geometry, or carving meat with a lightsaber.

As I said, 95% of the professional cooks use cheap "beater" knives. I'm one of the other 5%. Perhaps one day in five, I'm called upon to do some fancy knife work. And on those days, it's nice to have my usuba, gyuto, sujihiki, kiritsuke, etc. I keep all my knives in a cheap-looking backpack -- not a fancy knife case. I don't want my coworkers to know that the contents of my bag are probably worth more than their car.

Also, I never assume casual "home use." If someone wanted a casual knife, there's probably a Bed Bath and Beyond in their neighborhood.

"This doesn't hold true in sushi-world, however, where knife cost appears to be a surrogate for penis size."

One has to try to understand the cultural significance of Japanese knives and specifically those manufactured for sushi/sashimi.

I think I understand the cultural significance. And I'm here to tell you that in Las Vegas restaurants, the ONLY people bragging about how much their knives cost are the sushi cooks. Everyone else uses cheap knives, or they keep mum about their expensive knives, lest they grow legs and walk.

As for "I think that's a load of crap", certainly a judgement that offers no real help to this Thread.

Telling someone who probably doesn't have local access to a superlative cutlery store to "try before you buy" isn't helpful, either. How many places, worldwide, can someone compare a Tadatsuna to a Devin Thomas to a Hattori?

Five? Ten?

There isn't a store that good in Las Vegas, I can tell you that, and we have quite a few cooks and chefs.

Better to pick a style, edge, and grip, go with reviews, and buy something that can be easily resold if needed.

[Blether]

jfresch, you specify a carving knife. What will you be carving ? How often ? For how many people ?

[Country]

Telling someone who probably doesn't have local access to a superlative cutlery store to "try before you buy" isn't helpful, either. How many places, worldwide, can someone compare a Tadatsuna to a Devin Thomas to a Hattori?

In his first post jfresch inquired about Wusthof, Global, and Henckels. I'm in the "sticks" of midcoast Maine and there's a shop less than eight miles from me that carries Wusthof and Henckels. If they don't carry Global, there are three more shops within 35 miles that probably do. On the other hand, maybe jfresch is out in the middle of nowhere and is stuck with mail order. He/she ought to check in and let us know if any of this is any help.

PS. I'm enjoying your LV cook's helper thread. More, more..

[gdenby]

jfresch, looking at you early posts, I'd suggest considering 2 things. The blade bevel and the weight. The Misono, as far as I can tell has an asymmetric bevel. Harder to maintain. Can't find info on the weights, but lighter is generally better, no matter how much slicing you do.

Even as an amateur, for cutting down to bones, and into carcasses, I have several very inexpensive plastic handle knives. They are hard to damage, no worry about rust or chipping. And and easy to sharpen, which is good, 'cause they need sharpening a lot.

So, whatcha' going to buy?