When is it permissible to not tip?

[Edward J]

P.S. Back to the tipping topic, all you really need to know is that if you come to this country and eat out, please tip. It's our custom! Thank you.

Ah Custom, that's the word I was looking for.

One of my favorite books in the "throne room" is a reprint of a 1904 catalouge, "Hotel and saloon supplies". Among other things, it has an enormous choice of spittoons and cuspidors, from plain tin to silver plated with ornate handles and removable liners. Given the plethora of choices of such devices, I am forced to assume that it was socially acceptable, or a "custom" to use such devices in public, at least until the 1940's.

Then again not so long ago, it was socially acceptable not only in the US, but in Europe as well to ban women from voting.

What I'm trying to say, is that the custom of giving one person 20%-25% of the entire dining experience in lieu of a salary--or partly compensating his/her salary, is a custom whose time has come to change. Not only do those visiting the US find this custom unfair, so do many of the other employees in the industry.

Of course, I can never now look at a sliver plated punchbowl without really wondering.........

Pastry girl, It's only the Hotels who are unionized--but hang on, many of the "institutions"--hospitals, assisted living homes, schools and some corporate caterers (Office cafeterias etc) are. It is quite an enormous piece of the hospitality industry. And while we can quibble about the word "garnishee" the fact remains that employee's paycheck has Union dues removed long before the employee receives it. This is quite a sum of money, and while in my 30-odd year career in the hospitality industry I have never seen an audited financial statement from the Unions (which they are required to provide to their members by Canadian law). I have never seen any attempt by anyone other than Federal and Provincial Gov'ts to establish a series of benchmarks or standards for the respective trades (ie Cook 1, 2, and Red Seal cook 3;, with Baker 1,2, and 3 coming on line in B.C. and Alta. probably in 2013

[JC]

I'm from outside the US, but have visited twice as a tourist. Regarding this issue of tipping, the custom in restaurants is well known. What I'd like to know is tipping in other situations.

For example: once I took a cab to Boston Airport. After paying the meter fare, I was about to walk into the airport when the cabbie indicated that he should get a tip. I was quite surprised. Since I was rushing and didn't want to get into an argument about it I gave him a tip. But it did leave me an impression that "geez, all service providers in US expect to be tipped". Is this the situation?

[JC]

I don't see how foreign visitors who think it is always 100% permissible to not tip isn't relevant to the discussion.

EDIT -- I mean, that's the topic title, after all. Maybe this thread will convince just ONE visitor that we're not trying to pull the wool over their eyes. That our servers really DO make $2.33 an hour. And they need to be tipped to make a living. Most of us DON'T like that system. But that's how it is. Kind of like our screwed up healthcare and tax systems.

As a visitor, I do understand the need to tip in USA and I do leave a tip.

For me the issue is the amount of the tip. My idea of a tip is based on service level. More exceptional service deserves higher tips. Then comes what is the baseline? Over here, 10% covers most situations (in fact a standard service charge is levied). I remember a situation where our group left a tip of about 10-12% in a restaurant in New York (this was maybe 10 years back). The service was very average. The waiter was not happy and actually demanded that we increase the tip to 15-20%. I was quite taken aback. First it seemed to be very bad form to make a demand like that, and secondly we didn't feel his service deserved it. Anyway, we walked off with the waiter staring at us and mouthing unpleasant things.

All you're doing is driving up how much we have to tip to make up for your miserly ways. Used to be 10% was fine. Then 15%. Now it's 20%. And in some metro areas, 25% is the norm. Who's paying that? We are. Who isn't? Your countrymen.

Interesting to see the progressive increase in the expected tip %. From the tone of your writing you're putting the blame for the increase solely on non-tipping tourists. Seriously, I doubt if the non-tipping tourists make such a big dent in tips as to justify your claim. I'd say that domestic factors account for it more.

Edited November 17, 2011 by JC (log)

[ScoopKW]

Interesting to see the progressive increase in the expected tip %. From the tone of your writing you're putting the blame for the increase solely on non-tipping tourists. Seriously, I doubt if the non-tipping tourists make such a big dent in tips as to justify your claim. I'd say that domestic factors account for it more.

Of course. The cost of living has skyrocketed, but the servers hourly wage has hovered around $2.30 for as long as I've been in the business. My first gig was at a Moroccan restaurant (ersatz sommelier), and we drew no pay at all. It was tips or nothing. Not at all legal. But we all did OK, until the restaurant folded for playing fast and loose with the rules. I've got roughly 15 years in, and it's still $2.30. How the hell is ANYONE supposed to live on that?

But the fact that busloads of foreign tourists pull up to the tourist-town restaurants that I've worked at, leaving diddly-squat doesn't help either. Someone has to make up the difference. And it's sure as hell not Europeans and Canadians. (Except for the 15% or so who tip well.)

Edited November 17, 2011 by ScoopKW (log)

[heidih]

Of course. The cost of living has skyrocketed, but the servers hourly wage has hovered around $2.30 for as long as I've been in the business. My first gig was at a Moroccan restaurant (ersatz sommelier), and we drew no pay at all. It was tips or nothing. Not at all legal. But we all did OK, until the restaurant folded for playing fast and loose with the rules. I've got roughly 15 years in, and it's still $2.30. How the hell is ANYONE supposed to live on that?

SO you are saying that it was not legal what the owner did? How is that the customer's issue? As to $2.30/hr as I noted earlier - that is not the case in all states. In California it is minimum wage plus tips as I understand - so a blanket statement about the US is not valid.

[Edward J]

Scoop,if it's "busloads" of tourists, then there's a tour operator somewhere that needs a good talking to. Sometimes it's rooms division that "forgets" to negoatiate group tips for bus tours.

D.A.M.H.I.K.T.......

[ScoopKW]

SO you are saying that it was not legal what the owner did? How is that the customer's issue? As to $2.30/hr as I noted earlier - that is not the case in all states. In California it is minimum wage plus tips as I understand - so a blanket statement about the US is not valid.

OK, How about "in every state I've lived in." California notwithstanding, servers make squat for an hourly wage. And in California, the cost of living is usually so high that the minimum wage they're making isn't all that useful. I like to see people succeed. Subsistence living is not much of a life.

Scoop,if it's "busloads" of tourists, then there's a tour operator somewhere that needs a good talking to. Sometimes it's rooms division that "forgets" to negoatiate group tips for bus tours.

D.A.M.H.I.K.T.......

We try to tell them. They're willfully ignorant, and most don't care. They have the "I've got mine, Jack," mentality. Why should they care whether they make a restaurant full of servers and bartenders hustle for $2.30 an hour and no tips?

Justify it however you want. Servers do NOT want to see a busload of Canadians, Europeans, Asians or Australians pull in at the restaurant where they work. They're going to work hard and make next to nothing. But at least you're secure in the knowledge that you're not supporting an unjust wage system. So it's all good, right?

[Baron d'Apcher]

Hotel restaurant salaries are paid in part by the money generated from the hotel and it’s guests. Independent restaurants outside of hotels in the US that are worthy of a tipping debate rarely have unions. If union cooks in high-end restaurants were paid for their full hours, the resulting cost of the food would be inaccessible, prohibitive and a liability. Working in hotels, catering, hospitals is very different than working in smaller independent restaurants for reasons that “lifers” can calculate.

After reading the RDA of EdwardJ’s observations of the obvious and hopeless rhetoric from across the border, he should consider taking a couple thousand steps back to see the “capitalism” banner and understand that such a tipping model rewards proficient servers better than others and provides incentive. Until there are career servers in the US (theory X) -like in France (theory Y), where the noble standard of premium service and quality is second nature rather than the carrot and stick motivation in the land of plenty- the system will always demand financial rewards to inspire a proper work ethic. It is the product of greed, selfishness and the inherent American capitalist reflex to do better than thy neighbor, not share toys and look out for one’s self: consistent with the frigid-footed hostility towards hospitality tip pools.

As despicable and divisive as the system is, it makes those who benefit wealthier than the rest (promotion as well) while allegedly separating the wheat from the chaff. Waiving the almighty dollar is Uncle Sam’s entitled way of coaxing his notion of quality, which, based upon the original poster’s deliberation of an “expensive" $25 meal is being confused with value. Value is the abusive culture of cheap, obscenely processed foods (at the expense of the consumer’s nutrition, naturally) which has infected our food system and increased the disconnect. Quality is what you get can find in Europe, where there is pride without compromise in the goods that are raised, served and sold in a food culture which is embraced.

Uncle Sam wants to be coddled and massaged. He can be fawned over with the chance of offering money and will punish by withholding it. If servers are to make $10/hr here, that money is going to have to be subsidized by higher prices and those who take the time to tediously qualify tipping on a $20 steak dinner are not likely to happily absorb the increase without a chance to validate value: whether or not they were sufficiently spoiled.

Any dedicated epicurean traveler who dines for the pleasure of dining and researches the tradition of not eating weisswurst after noon or cheese before a meal should not be so abrasive and childish as to choose one dining custom over another for financially fueled criticism of established food industry ideology.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Baron d'Apcher (log)

[JC]

Of course. The cost of living has skyrocketed, but the servers hourly wage has hovered around $2.30 for as long as I've been in the business. My first gig was at a Moroccan restaurant (ersatz sommelier), and we drew no pay at all. It was tips or nothing. Not at all legal. But we all did OK, until the restaurant folded for playing fast and loose with the rules. I've got roughly 15 years in, and it's still $2.30. How the hell is ANYONE supposed to live on that?

Wow, this shows that the economic rights of waitstaff in the USA have been seriously screwed. I'm surprised that the waitstaff haven't revolted against their employers. Obviously there is something wrong with the system and that has been acknowledged by many posters here. But I'm more intrigued by how long this system has persisted and how it has resisted change. I've always thought of USA as a place where workers are vocal and their rights looked after - doesn't seem to be the case for waitstaff.

Edited November 17, 2011 by JC (log)

[naguere]

A nice post jrshaul.

It has made me thoughtful.

[Jaymes]

Wow, this shows that the economic rights of waitstaff in the USA have been seriously screwed. I'm surprised that the waitstaff haven't revolted against their employers. Obviously there is something wrong with the system and that has been acknowledged by many posters here. But I'm more intrigued by how long this system has persisted and how it has resisted change. I've always thought of USA as a place where workers are vocal and their rights looked after - doesn't seem to be the case for waitstaff.

Seems obvious, doesn't it? Also seems obvious that we should be sympathetic with the plight of the exploited servers.

Yet it's been my experience that every time a community in which I've lived tries to change the system, it's been the servers themselves that are the most vociferously opposed. For many reasons, most of them delineated above, a great many servers like things just fine they way they are.

All I'm saying is that the issue is not as simple, nor the "villain" as easily identifiable, nor the solution as obvious, as they appear to be at first glance.

_______________________

Edited November 17, 2011 by Jaymes (log)

[Simon_S]

I'm going to try not to get embroiled in the facile anti-tourist mud-slinging, and instead ask a simple question:

Do servers pay income tax on all of their tip earnings?

(I'm not talking about the official line here, I mean in reality.)

[ScoopKW]

I'm going to try not to get embroiled in the facile anti-tourist mud-slinging, and instead ask a simple question:

Do servers pay income tax on all of their tip earnings?

(I'm not talking about the official line here, I mean in reality.)

At the resort where I work, 99% of the transactions are via credit card. So there is a paper trail for all tips. Which means the servers pay taxes on everything.

What they do with any cash tips is up to their honest nature.

Here's the worst part -- the IRS (our version of Inland Revenue) taxes servers in part on a percentage of their gross receipts. So when someone stiffs the server because of their high moral standards, the government is still going to tax the server on money that he or she didn't even make. (They assume the guest left a cash tip even though paying with a credit card. And the server is taxed accordingly.) Talk about adding insult to injury.

So, if I have cash in my wallet, I always tip in cash. That way, I hope to make up for a non-tipping foreign (or tightwad domestic) visitor.

Edited November 17, 2011 by ScoopKW (log)

[Simon_S]

(They assume the guest left a cash tip even though paying with a credit card. And the server is taxed accordingly.)

Ouch!

[KatieLoeb]

I alluded to this earlier in the thread. Those that try to beat the system might get away with it for awhile, but the nightmare that could ensue if they're ever audited is not worth any prior gain in terms of living large for a short time frame. Most transactions are indeed via credit card, and those transactions for which there is a verifiable paper trail will serve as the "truth" for the IRS. If you work in a place that is all cash, I'd worry about the business owners getting audited first and all of the tipped employees being next on the suspect list.

[MetsFan5]

On 23/07/2011 at 5:15 PM, jrshaul said:

 

4. Unwillingness to move my table due to inclement conditions. This has yet to actually happen, though I suspect it will soon enough. While a crying infant or boisterous drinkers aren't a big deal, if I'm paying $17 for a steak I expect to enjoy it without water dripping on my head. (This, sadly, has happened. In the last week.)

 

I don't know where the OP dines but while I would love to be able to order a steak for a mere $17- even 5 years ago, I certainly wouldn't eat anywhere where water was literally leaking on my table. 

 

  That said I never ever NOT tip. When you do not tip you cost your server money as most servers tip a percentage of their sales to the bar and bus people and rarely, the hostess. Even if my server sucked I know the bar making the drinks worked and so did the busser.