Macarons: Troubleshooting & Tips

[cakemuse]

OK, thought I would try the method posted using with almond paste.

First photo - all looks well.

Second - results.

These 'macarons' never got feet, the shell is soft and a bit wet - I did not fill these out all the way.

They remind me of Vanilla Wafers just with almond.

I forget who posted the recipe but I would be curious to see the results that you got using almond paste.

Sorry, I'm back to Italian meringue...

[lamington]

Leoni, I think you're making this much more difficult for yourself than necessary -- you're adding more and more variables, yet seeming to forget the advice of even people like Pierre Hermé. Don't start tinkering with the formula until you're comfortable making successful ones. Most people find the basic shells very sweet. It's the final constructed macaron's balance of flavours that should be the goal.

There are strong indications that the French meringue method benefits from aged egg whites. Italian meringue macarons are much more stable and so aged egg whites are less important (though many professionals will use a very small amount of egg white powder).

The ageing is not just about moisture loss, but also a change in the proteins over time. There is absolutely no reason to leave your egg whites out for five days and I've never seen any proper recipe recommend that.

No-one has suggested leaving shells out until they're dry (ie for a day). Some recipes suggest a few hours. Most of us do just fine resting them for 10-30 mins.

It seems to me that you need to focus on working with one (or two) recipes that people have had demonstrated success with and consider the two main causes of problems: oven heat distribution and how they were mixed. Please read my post above, along with other tips from experienced makers.

[lamington]

OK, thought I would try the method posted using with almond paste.

First photo - all looks well.

Second - results.

These 'macarons' never got feet, the shell is soft and a bit wet - I did not fill these out all the way.

They remind me of  Vanilla Wafers just with almond.

←

Hey cakemuse:) I've only once had this sort of porous shell, but I've seen lots of people experiencing it online. I *think* it could be due to undermixing, though your batter doesn't look like it. Perhaps it was just too damp. Remember though, if in doubt, only pipe a small batch to test.

[cakemuse]

Hey Duncan -

I think that batch has to do with using almond paste. I added ingredient amounts per the recipe that was posted with this method.

I was just curious....they are still sitting on a tray and damp, damp, damp!

They make me laugh

Cheers!

[leoni]

Leoni, I think you're making this much more difficult for yourself than necessary -- you're adding more and more variables, yet seeming to forget the advice of even people like Pierre Hermé. Don't start tinkering with the formula until you're comfortable making successful ones. Most people find the basic shells very sweet. It's the final constructed macaron's balance of flavours that should be the goal.

There are strong indications that the French meringue method benefits from aged egg whites. Italian meringue macarons are much more stable and so aged egg whites are less important (though many professionals will use a very small amount of egg white powder).

The ageing is not just about moisture loss, but also a change in the proteins over time. There is absolutely no reason to leave your egg whites out for five days and I've never seen any proper recipe recommend that.

No-one has suggested leaving shells out until they're dry (ie for a day). Some recipes suggest a few hours. Most of us do just fine resting them for 10-30 mins.

It seems to me that you need to focus on working with one (or two) recipes that people have had demonstrated success with and consider the two main causes of problems: oven heat distribution and how they were mixed. Please read my post above, along with other tips from experienced makers.

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1) Could you please explain what happens to the proteins from aging that makes them more suitable to make macarons if moisture loss isnt the only reason? Or point me to a resource that I could read that would explain it?

2) Could you also explain the general theory for heat management on macarons?

3) You suggested that weak heat is generally the cause of a bad rise. What's the purpose of putting shielding underneath the macaron tray?

4) If an angled baking sheet, or oven is the cause of lop-sided macarons, why do the macarons all tilt in multiple directions instead of one?

5) What causes cracks in the macarons where the "feet" ooze out from the cracks instead of from below?

I don't think overmixing is my problem since I've tried both over and under mixing and I would like to assume that I've pintpointed the sweet spot (flows like magma, nipples smooth out in 30 seconds, and pale like ivory), but it's probably heat management. Is there a theory behind macaron heat management? I would have thought shielding underneath is to stop strong convection currents (the type of heat that rises) and encourage radiation heat (heat that bounces off the walls from all directions). But is there a general theory behind this? (ex: strong heat needs to come out from underneath to encourage a strong rise, a crack in the oven door allows steam to escape, etc.)

Edited July 24, 2009 by leoni (log)

[RuthWells]

I will still stand by my hypothesis unless someone has any disagreements:

In order to make macarons the french style, the eggwhites must be aged in a manner that they will lose water content so the proteins are more concentrated when using a specified amount of mass in order to increase the structural strength of the macaron. (Unless using the bain marie method)

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I disagree. I only make them French-style (no bain marie), and I don't leave my egg whites uncovered. I am usually using older (frozen) whites, but I don't leave them out to lose water content, and I have a 99% success rate (the 1% failure is usually because I knock out too little air from the final batter).

[leoni]

I will still stand by my hypothesis unless someone has any disagreements:

In order to make macarons the french style, the eggwhites must be aged in a manner that they will lose water content so the proteins are more concentrated when using a specified amount of mass in order to increase the structural strength of the macaron. (Unless using the bain marie method)

←

I disagree. I only make them French-style (no bain marie), and I don't leave my egg whites uncovered. I am usually using older (frozen) whites, but I don't leave them out to lose water content, and I have a 99% success rate (the 1% failure is usually because I knock out too little air from the final batter).

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could I get your recipe?

[CanadianBakin']

I thought this link should be added to the discussion: Macaron - the delicate French invention.

[Desiderio]

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d.html/191-9877...06?a=2353260357

I want this book! I don't think is available on US Amazon.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Desiderio (log)

[gap]

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d.html/191-9877...06?a=2353260357

I want this book! I don't think is available on US Amazon.

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Desiderio,

don't know if you've seen this thread?

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=121554

The book is available again on the PH website

[Patrick S]

A few personal observations based on my own successes and failures during my latest round of macaron making:

1. A few times I think I overbeat the whites before adding the syrup, and the meringue never firmed up enough, and I never got a good 'bird beak.' Now I beat them just until they have very soft peaks before adding the syrup.

2. Some of the Italian meringue recipes required a lot of folding and mixing before they took on a shine and reached the right viscosity.

3. At their best, French meringue macarons have (to me) a better texture, while Italian meringue macarons have better appearance. Obviously this is just my personaly opinion and your own mileage will vary.

4. With the French meringue recipes I have tried (and I haven't tried them all!), dehydrating the egg whites for 1-2 days results in smoother surfaces on the macarons.

5. I've made peace with the idea of using colors. With chocolate macarons, browning is a non-issue, but with non-chocolate macarons you have to be careful for browning. You can bake low and long, and risk drying out too much, and you can cook higher and shorter, and risk browning. Colors give you a little insurance so that browning is not so apparent.

Question for the egulleteers:

Inevitably when I grind my TPT, no matter how long I grind, I have a very small bit of almond (maybe 0.5%) that does not want to grind fine enough. I sieve it out as best I can with my kitchen strainer. The problem with my strainer is that it is not fine enough, and some of those small bit get into the mix. Can anyone recommend a fine sieve or strainer or other tool that will help me?

[lennyk]

Is this remainder all the same size or a variety ?

I usually get about a teaspoon or so about 1-2mm which I just dump or eat.

You can try sharpening your food processor blades, it might help a little.

[CanadianBakin']

Question for the egulleteers:

Inevitably when I grind my TPT, no matter how long I grind, I have a very small bit of almond (maybe 0.5%) that does not want to grind fine enough. I sieve it out as best I can with my kitchen strainer. The problem with my strainer is that it is not fine enough, and some of those small bit get into the mix. Can anyone recommend a fine sieve or strainer or other tool that will help me?

←

Thanks for taking the time to give us your observations.

This is probably not the answer you're looking for but since you seem to make macarons quite frequently have you considered buying a box from a wholesaler? I just bought a 5 kg box and it's ground very fine and cost half what it does at the grocery store. When I sifted it I only had a few pieces that didn't go through and since the amount was barely a pinch I just threw them out and didn't worry about replacing the weight.

[Patrick S]

I think I found a solution -- just use my splatter screen, which has a finer mesh. CB, what do you pay for the 5kg? Right now I am paying $12US for 1.1kg blanched slivered almonds. I just did a brief google and found that I am probably paying too much. . .

[CanadianBakin']

I think I found a solution -- just use my splatter screen, which has a finer mesh. CB, what do you pay for the 5kg? Right now I am paying $12US for 1.1kg blanched slivered almonds. I just did a brief google and found that I am probably paying too much. . .

←

It was about $45 for 5kg.

[morphone]

I've been making macarons, and they've been turning out pretty well, though the most recent batches have been hollow - they have a crisp, smooth, shiny outer shell and a foot, but between the shell and foot is just empty space. They taste great and seem perfect in every other way.

Any idea why this is happening? This happened across the board, for both the larger and smaller shells that I piped out.

[StevenC]

I've been making macarons, and they've been turning out pretty well, though the most recent batches have been hollow - they have a crisp, smooth, shiny outer shell and a foot, but between the shell and foot is just empty space. They taste great and seem perfect in every other way.

Any idea why this is happening? This happened across the board, for both the larger and smaller shells that I piped out.

I've been finding the same thing too. I use the recipe in Pascal Rigo's American Boulangerie, and I don't have any problems with a shiny outer shell, legs, and so forth. I don't exactly use farm-fresh eggs, but I've never bothered to age my egg whites or add meringue powder. (I've found, though, that I get terrible results if I use a mixer with a stainless steel bowl, so I only use a copper bowl, and I whisk the egg whites by hand.) The result has always been macarons that look perfect from the outside.

But all my macarons have an empty space between the shell and the bottom. I've been tempted to try Pierre Herme's recipes that use an Italian meringue. I'm thinking that it might result in a denser texture, with slightly less egg-white expansion in the oven . Has anyone noticed a difference in this regard?

[morphone]

I've heard good things about the Italian meringue technique, though I'm really hoping to master the French method first. I have Herme's book, but sadly I don't read French.

I'm wondering if maybe I'm not whipping the egg whites enough, before mixing in the almond/sugar, and that's causing the hollow insides? I'd also like to see them foot a little more, but they are footing almost perfectly.

And how long do you bake yours for, and at what temp? I'm at 300°F for 12 minutes, and I think I need to leave them in a little longer. Been experimenting with leaving a wooden spoon in the door, and that seems to prevent them from sticking so badly.

[gap]

Herme's book is great and Google Translate is very good at translating the recipes.

http://translate.google.com/#fr|en|

I use the Herme proportions for Italian without any issues. This is another recipe for Italian which I haven't tried, the egg whites for the meringue are a lot less than I would use but I think the picture of the cut macaron (last/bottom picture) speaks for itself

http://www.eddyvandammeusa.com/2010/01/gerbet-macaroons-gerbet-macarons/

I'm keen to try this recipe at some stage

[morphone]

Has anyone tried the recipes from I Love Macarons by Hisako Ogita? It's nearly impossible to find now, but I I have copies of the base recipes.

[StevenC]

Take a look at the photo about a quarter of the way down this page: http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/

An oven temperature of 300F (149 celsius), which is around what I've been using, may be too low, according to this website. I'm going to try a slightly higher oven as recommended--maybe 165 c (330F or so)--and see what happens. My macarons did puff up enormously in the lower oven, more in fact than I would have liked. (The assembled macarons were too tall, although they were nicely domed.) I was concerned about having them brown too quickly, but I think that putting them in the middle of the oven and covering the upper grill with foil may prevent that from happening.

[morphone]

Hi Steve, do report back once you've tried this to tell me if it works. Also, will you be putting the wooden spoon in the oven door?

[RWood]

A couple of things that has helped me is double sheet pans, starting the macarons at 350 F for 5 mins., then propping the oven door open with a wooden spoon for about 10 more mins.

When I used to make hundreds of these things at a caterer, we used a convection oven. We would put sheet pans on the top and bottom shelves, start them at 325 F for 5 mins., then drop the temp to 300 with the door propped open. Same thing basically, but home and convection ovens are different.

I think the higher heat to start helps give the foot the boost they need.

Morphone, I have the I Love Macarons book, but haven't tried anything from it. I really didn't like the way her macs look in the book. I haven't looked at the recipes that closely to see how it differs from the one I use.

[jumanggy]

I think because of the significant variability in ovens, there's a need to preface most macaron instructions (in fact, anything wherein rising/falling/browning is tricky business) with exactly what you're using.

1. Heating element bottom w/w/o fan

2. Heating element top w/w/o fan

3. Heating element behind w/w/o fan (does w/o fan exist?)

4. Heating element top and bottom w/w/o fan

Someday we may need to have proper names for all these and maybe there'll be no more confusion

[CanadianBakin']

Take a look at the photo about a quarter of the way down this page: http://www.syrupandtang.com/200712/la-macaronicite-3-the-more-reliable-macaron-recipe-and-a-few-tips/

An oven temperature of 300F (149 celsius), which is around what I've been using, may be too low, according to this website. I'm going to try a slightly higher oven as recommended--maybe 165 c (330F or so)--and see what happens. My macarons did puff up enormously in the lower oven, more in fact than I would have liked. (The assembled macarons were too tall, although they were nicely domed.) I was concerned about having them brown too quickly, but I think that putting them in the middle of the oven and covering the upper grill with foil may prevent that from happening.

In Chocolate Desserts by Pierre Herme he preheats to 425F, puts them in, drops the temp to 350F and props door with wooden spoon. Bakes for 8 - 10 minutes.