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"Super Envision"


schneich
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hi,

i just found something utterly cool. its called "super envision" and it can drastically lower the sweetness level of all foodstuffs that contain sugar (sucrose) as far as i can see you only need to add miniscule amounts. imagine a pate de fruit with only very subtle sweetness, or a just-creamy-but-non-sweet white chocolate.... i have to get my hands onto it :biggrin:

see this

cheers

t.

toertchen toertchen

patissier chocolatier cafe

cologne, germany

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Very interesting! I notice the ingredients are sucrose, maltodextrin and artificial flavour. I wonder if adding some maltodextrin alone to PDF would somehow modify the sweetness.

I wonder if someone from Domino will be at the PMCA this year - perhaps I can score a sample.

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Sounds interesting. I've bounced a couple emails with Chad from the chadzilla blog on some ideas I've been working on for converting certain traditionally sweet items to savory. Turns out he was already a few steps ahead of me on the same track but we are both dealing with the same difficulties. This may be a step in the right direction. I've already contacted Domino with some questions about what I'm trying to do so I'll see what they have to say. Thanks for the link.

It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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Hmmm... I dunno. (thinking...) On the one hand, I can see why you might want to create a pate de fruit that was less sweet or a less sugary version of white chocolate, as t. said, but something bothers me about "tricking" my senses into consuming more sugar than I realize.

I really enjoy a good PdF but do find them borderline too sweet, so I don't eat very much (which I think is a good thing). If they didn't taste as sweet, I might eat a lot more.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Yeah, I suppose that's a potential problem. I'm not interested in tricking people into thinking they're eating less sugar though. I just want to trick them into tasting less of it. I want them to perceive less sweetness without losing the essence of what I've altered to my purposes. I don't do low fat, low sugar, low carb, etc. unless a particular item just happens to fit one of those categories naturally so I'm not concerned with any ethical issues. I figure people looking for any justification to do what they want to do are going to do it regardless. Not my job to police them. :biggrin:

It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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Oh, I'm not criticizing... really. It's just not a "slam-dunk" for me. I think real butter is a good thing. Same for whole fat cheeses. Sugar? Yes, please.

As a side note, I have a friend who says that maltodextrin is just something food manufacturers put in their products to make you eat more.

I'm rambling now... but I am interested in seeing what you guys come up with in using this product.

Cheers.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Didn't think you were criticizing at all, just added my 1 cent (can't go 2 with this economy :biggrin: ) on the subject because I thought you raised a good point.

It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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As a side note, I have a friend who says that maltodextrin is just something food manufacturers put in their products to make you eat more.

Thats incorrect. Its used industrially as a bulking item to increase yield or volume.

If the only ingredients of this are sucrose and Malto I cannot imagine how it would "drastically reduce sweetness" unless you substitute a large percentage of the sugar with it, and that would affect the texture of almost anything horribly.

I don't get it. I wonder what the artificial flavoring is for. That combined with the name and the manufacturer leads me to believe this is a stupid product...

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This would be interesting to someone like me who is constantly told everything I bake is "too sweet". The complaint is not the high calorie count, it's just a taste preference for certain people.

But with most buttercreams, some cookie recipes, and so on, reducing the sugar changes the texture of the finished product.

But I'm just a home baker so it's just as well this is a commercial product so I'm not sucked into buying YET another ingredient!

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IMO it would be good for marshmellows and caramel as here mosy people say they are too sweet! I can see someone, though, craving more sweetness, if that is the taste he is used to, and that may make him get it somehow, from eating more, or elsewhere, like in tea/coffee. I wonder how it affects the diabetics, as their bodies also react to perceived sweetness, I think....??

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As a side note, I have a friend who says that maltodextrin is just something food manufacturers put in their products to make you eat more.

Thats incorrect. Its used industrially as a bulking item to increase yield or volume.

...

Yes, yes, of course it is, Sweet Pea. That's its official raison d'etre.

And yet, just notice how many times it shows up in products that you can't seem to stop eating... "I'm just sayin'." :rolleyes:

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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IMO it would be good for marshmellows and caramel as here mosy people say they are too sweet! I can see someone, though, craving more sweetness, if that is the taste he is used to, and that may make him get it somehow, from eating more, or elsewhere, like in tea/coffee. I wonder how it affects the diabetics, as their bodies also react to perceived sweetness, I think....??

Hi Ilana,

Re the marshmallows at least. I find that by themselves they are far too sweet and far too...I don't know...full of taste. Too orangey, too raspberryish. However, dipped in bittersweet chocolate, they sing! :wub:

Chocolate sounds better to me than a 'chemical' solution. I think. .... :hmmm:

Darienne

 

learn, learn, learn...

 

Life in the Meadows and Rivers

Cheers & Chocolates

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The product really isn't so bad. The thing that 'lowers' sweetness is the maltodextrin, but it's not so much a sweetness inhibitor as something that just isn't as sweet: a bit like what dextrose is to sugar. It's reasonably similar to glucose too: the difference being that the molecules in maltodextrin haven't been broken down that much compared to glucose. At least from my understanding anyway.

Eg:

Dextrose powder = DE 100

Glucose = DE 21-100

Maltodextrin = DE <20

For people with diabetes, it has a similar effect as dextrose.

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The product really isn't so bad. The thing that 'lowers' sweetness is the maltodextrin, but it's not so much a sweetness inhibitor as something that just isn't as sweet: a bit like what dextrose is to sugar. It's reasonably similar to glucose too: the difference being that the molecules in maltodextrin haven't been broken down that much compared to glucose. At least from my understanding anyway. 

Eg:

Dextrose powder = DE 100

Glucose = DE 21-100

Maltodextrin = DE <20

For people with diabetes, it has a similar effect as dextrose.

But the amount added is less than 1%, so I"m not sure how that little maltodextrin would affect the sweetness.

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Valid point, I just rechecked the typical analysis percentage. The weird thing is though, that the nutritional information only marks it as 69.3g/100g sugar. So the typical analysis, when compared to the nutritional, doesn't really match. As far as I can tell anyway.

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I am with Seth, I don't get it. The product only contains 3% maltodextrin, so I don't see how that would work. And if you added more, I don't I would want to eat such a high ratio of maltodextrin, not for health reasons just merely taste and texture. I was really expecting some not product in there.

by the way, if you want a less sweet pate de fruit, make agar gummies, they are practically the same thing but the agar masks the sweetness.

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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I've never seen a successful "less sweet" pate de fruit that comes anywhere close texturally.

That includes agar, agar/LBG, and LM pectin variations. Its hard to get that sticky texture without a ton of sugar.

In theory I suppose you could do like an isomalt gummy bear, and that would be somewhat closer.

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I've never seen a successful "less sweet" pate de fruit that comes anywhere close texturally.

That includes agar, agar/LBG, and LM pectin variations. Its hard to get that sticky texture without a ton of sugar.

In theory I suppose you could do like an isomalt gummy bear, and that would be somewhat closer.

I personally like the texture more of the agar. I don't care for the stickiness so much of the pate de fruit, but then again its my own opinion not the customers.

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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I am a puritan and don't like anything artificifial. I even have personal moral struggles using coloured cocoa butter and transfer sheets!! Yeah, a chocolate can look unique and beautiful but chemicals (food dyes) are not healthy. My clientele questions me as well about whether or not I use preservatives etc.

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Here's more information about lactisole on Wiki -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactisole.

Intriguing, but like prairiegirl, I wouldn't use it in my products.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Just so you guys know, sucrose and maltodexterin are not chemicals (in the sense that you mean, which is artificial...they are chemicals in the way that regular table sugar and salt are chemicals of course).

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I arrived at Patris's home this weekend and the sample of Super Envision was waiting.

Patty mixed up two glasses of sugar water, to one we added a small amount of the product. It cut the sweetness considerably. Left a bit of an aftertaste - notably when Patty went to chew some gum, she found it quite bitter. So it must block the taste receptors for a while after you consume it.

A bit of research online indicates that zinc has the same ability to cut the perception of sweetness.

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