Who loves Kubba? Eating and cooking

[melamed]

I just posted on the garlic issue but I think it is so far off anyone's interest grid that I would be surprised if I do get a response on that one. It could be that it is just a family tradition but I have not done enough research to see if there is some sort of pattern. My grandmother comes from north eastern Iraq (koysanjak, near the Iranian border), and has never used any garlic although jews from the Northern Iraq/turkish border use plenty of it. I thought it might be connected to more ancient traditions (zoroastrianism). The borders were once quite open and there was alot of migration going on, there are plenty of Iraqi's in Iran, as you mentioned.

Perhaps I should post something about Kurdish food in general in the future, although my family eats Kubba 90% of the time they do have other recipes!

Today, however no Kubba, but a pot of Harira soup.....

[scubadoo97]

Shaya ;your food looks amazing. Love the color of the beet soup. I have read about beet kubba and yours looks wonderful. We use celery leaves in our soup kibbeh as well. One of the common soups with kibbeh is hamud. A very lemony soup with of celery, carrots, onions, mint and lots of garlic.

Rebecca glad to see you posting and have an appetite.

[Shaya]

Shaya ;your food looks amazing.  Love the color of the beet soup.  I have read about beet kubba and yours looks wonderful.  We use celery leaves in our soup kibbeh as well.  One of the common soups with kibbeh is hamud.  A very lemony soup with of celery, carrots, onions, mint and lots of garlic. 

Thanks Scubadoo. Interesting about the Hamud, I can't think of any traditional dishes my family ate that had carrot in them (and you already know, from my previous post, that garlic was also not used). Interesting how celery leaves are so prominently used. They add great flavor, don't they, something you don't get simply from parsley?

[Rebecca263]

Hi! Yes, my chemotherapy regimen is wonderful and I've gained 40 pounds since last June! Now I look JUST like my grandmother did in the photos we have of her, minus the hair!

I'm so grateful and happy to be here!

Interesting about the celery. Tonight we had black beans in a stew that I usually made with chick peas and I had my daughter add celery- as we do for the chick pea version AND for Cuban style black beans. I didn't like it in the stew at all.

Now, in my family, parsley is definitely a widely used green, as is mint to a lesser degree, but celery- I can really only think of it in hamoud or certain salads. Huh!

[melamed]

Hi! Yes, my chemotherapy regimen is wonderful and I've gained 40 pounds since last June! Now I look JUST like my grandmother did in the photos we have of her, minus the hair!

I'm so grateful and happy to be here!

Interesting about the celery. Tonight we had black beans in a stew that I usually made with chick peas and I had my daughter add celery- as we do for the chick pea version AND for Cuban style black beans. I didn't like it in the stew at all.

Now, in my family, parsley is definitely a widely used green, as is mint to a lesser degree, but celery- I can really only think of it in hamoud or certain salads. Huh!

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I am new to the forum and glad to be having this lively discussion about kubba with such interesting people and am especially happy that Rebecca could make it, greetings to everyone!

More about celery, I know that many of the Kurds from Northern Iraq use celery instead of parsley, dill or mint which were all widely available. From what I read from a Kurdish cookbook and what I know from my family (from all over Northern Iraq), celery was the herb of choice. Dill would never me used although it is often used in stuffed grape leaves.

Another thing which I forgot to mention is Kalia. In the old days before refrigerators the stuffing was made by cutting meat into very small pieces and frying them until they were well browned and lost all their moisture. This was pounded into a paste using a mortar and pestle and stored in an airtight clay pot. Nobody pounds by hand anymore but an electric mixture is used to grind everything down. Sometimes fried onions (very golden brown), garlic (never with my grandmother) and celery were added after.

I always use ground meat but there are some who chop the meat by hand and stuff the kubba without frying the meat first. They say this is more authentic. Many like the clumpy mixture instead of ground meat but I don't because it is usually made with tough cuts like chuck and if it isn't chopped properly is not appetizing. Maybe we should make gourmet tenderloin kubba?

The most famous Kurdish kubba is Hamoustah (meaning sour) and uses only greens for the soup- swiss chard, celery leaves, green onions, green garlic and lots of lemon juice in a chicken soup base. Fantastic but my kids really don't like all that green stuff floating around. All the stew kubba are usually eaten with white rice.

Edited February 28, 2009 by melamed (log)

[Shaya]

Maybe we should make gourmet tenderloin kubba?

Don't laugh, but when we were growing up my always Mom had her butcher ground up the tenderloin ...she figured it was the best way to keep my Dad's cholesterol in check. Ok, you can laugh (but his cholesterol level was always stable).

[melamed]

Gourmet Kubba indeed! now that's love!

Some of my relatives who sell kubba make special vegetarian ones, either stuffed with mushrooms or tofu, very strange east/west fusion I must say.

[scubadoo97]

With all this kubba discussion I had to give it another try. Came home early and went to work on these. I made our traditional kibbeh hamdah using 1.5 lbs of very lean top sirloin and a 1.5 cups of ground rice for the shell. The filling was made from ground chuck, chopped celery leaves and our baharat spice mix. Not able to get them as thin as my Grandmother but would call these a start in the right direction. They are a little frosty since I froze them for future use. Like maybe tonight. I'm interested in making the beet soup kubba Shaya posted. I have a couple of large beets in the fridge. Stay tuned

Edited February 28, 2009 by scubadoo97 (log)

[Shaya]

Scubadoo, those look great. Regarding the beets, I find it easy nowadays to roast them in some foil at 425 then they peel easily and don't create the mess that boiling does. That's why they went into my soup rather late in the game.

[melamed]

With all this kubba discussion I had to give it another try.  Came home early and went to work on these.  I made our traditional kibbeh hamdah using 1.5 lbs of

That looks 100 times better than my kibbeh hamdah. My shell was a bit crumbly and I ended up making baseball sized kibbeh with a pea sized filling, if I had a Syrian grandmother she would have fainted.

Do you also use allspice for the filling?

Does the lean meat make for a more pliable dough?

I noticed you also make teardrop shaped kibbeh (like Aromas of Aleppo), is that very typical? ok, enough questions... Good luck with the beet kibbeh.

[scubadoo97]

Do you also use allspice for the filling?

Does the lean meat make for a more pliable dough?

I noticed you also make teardrop shaped kibbeh (like Aromas of Aleppo), is that very typical?

Our mixed spice has allspice in it. Not typical with the Lebanese

I used lean meat because all the recipes call for it. It's a pretty stiff dough and cracks are not easy to mend. Traditionally you dip your finger in a mixture of oil and lemon juice to keep the dough from sticking to your finger and palm when forming the kibbeh.

The pointy end is typical for formed kibbeh. Agian my grandparents came from Aleppo Syria and Kilis Turkey which is pretty close to Halab/Aleppo

[scubadoo97]

Shaya, your beet soup looked so wonderful that I had to try to do one.

I had a lot of vegetables in the fridge, many from our last CSA farm pick up. For the kubba I kinda winged it from reading as many recipes here and from the net. I had made a few test runs of kubba made from semolina and ground rice with and without flour but found them a little too dense. I decided to make the shell using a combination of coarse and fine bulgur wheat, semolina and a little ground rice along with some 99% fat free ground turkey I found at the market and spices. I used this same turkey for the filling which was mixed with diced onions, celery leaves and spices.

For the soup I used 2 large beets, 2 large turnips, carrots, onions, celery, garlic, a red potato, sweet potato and the tops from the beets and turnips. Because this had so many vegetables I didn't want to add the kubba directly to the soup for fear of them breaking up so simmered them in chicken broth first which was then added to the soup. I good dose of lemon was added for a sweet and sour taste. Over all I was impressed with the soup and kubbah. Of course I will not be able to make it exactly two times in a row which is par of my cooking.

Edited March 2, 2009 by scubadoo97 (log)

[melamed]

My first potato kubba, very tasty and big hit with the kids. Added currants, almond slivers and cardamon, although forgot the parsley. I think this kubba would be a a good introduction to Iraqi cuisine for someone who eats only shepherd's pie.

I tried frying and broiling, the darker kubba was fried. I prefer broiling because it is less greasy and messy- and the flavour is still very good. I made a few a bit too big and bulging, so next time I will try flattening them a bit more. Nawal Nasrallah uses corn flour in hers which she says helps when working with nonstarchy potatoes.

[melamed]

Scubadoo, Is that matza ball soup?

My grandmother sometimes mixes semolina, ground chicken/turkey and rice but only when she has some left over shell ingredients from a previous kubba session. With her its either only semolina, or only rice with ground chicken.

My beet kubba is very stream lined. I use only salt/pepper, celery, onions and lots of beets. I always use chicken stock for the base otherwise it would be too bland. I pop the kubba directly in the soup pot and so they turn intensely ruby red.

That looks very tasty and noticed you shaped them like teardrops. Nice closeup.

Edited March 3, 2009 by melamed (log)

[Shaya]

Great looking food, Scubadoo and Melamed. I must tell my Grandmother her food is being made all over the world!

Regarding the beet kubba, all that's really needed to make the shell is semolina #2 and enough water to make a nice pasty dough. Add a tablespoon of ground meat to help bind. It makes a light shell. I wonder if the bulger makes it a little heavier than is intended, especially after boiling. But it looks gorgeous all the same.

I'm glad the kids enjoyed the kubba patata. I would think that frying would make for a different texture - not an unpleasant one at that! But interesting that you preferred the broiling method, it is the way we do ours.

You all are making me hungry!

[Shaya]

Melamed, I am looking at the closeup - was the potato a bit gummy in the final product? If so how did you mash the potato - I think it needs to be grated by hand or put through a ricer when really hot, and not mixed or anything, so as not to agitate the gluten. I could be wrong...maybe it just looks that way in the photo, because your potatoes are so beautifully white.

[scubadoo97]

Scubadoo, Is that matza ball soup?

Funny. They do look like them

Shaya, I did try a little batch of semolina only but it hard to work with. Obviously you have to get the texture just right. The bulgur didn't make them too heavy. No they are not light like matzah balls but they had a typical kibbeh consistency.

[melamed]

Melamed, I am looking at the closeup - was the potato a bit gummy in the final product?  If so how did you mash the potato - I think it needs to be grated by hand or put through a ricer when really hot, and not mixed or anything, so as not to agitate the gluten.  I could be wrong...maybe it just looks that way in the photo, because your potatoes are so beautifully white.

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no, actually not gummy at all, the potatoes are that white (they do look a bit gluey, don't they?). I actually took your grandmother's advice and grated the potatoes while still hot. No gluten in pototoes, just starch which is released, as you said, if mixed too much or overboiled. Have no idea what kind of potato I used but they are in season and the best quality now. In the summer I wouldn't make this.

I am not sure what causes potatoes to be so sticky out of season.

[Shaya]

Shaya, I did try a little batch of semolina only but it hard to work with.  Obviously you have to get the texture just right.  The bulgur didn't make them too heavy.  No they are not light like matzah balls but they had a typical kibbeh consistency.

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Wonderful!

no, actually not gummy at all, the potatoes are that white (they do look a bit gluey, don't they?). I actually took your grandmother's advice and grated the potatoes while still hot.  No gluten in pototoes, just starch which is released, as you said, if mixed too much or overboiled. Have no idea what kind of potato I used but they are in season and the best quality now. In the summer I wouldn't make this.

I am not sure what causes potatoes to be so sticky out of season.

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Yeah, it was hard to tell for sure, I`m glad they turned out so well. Bravo in the grating, you must have teflon hands!

[scubadoo97]

With the kids home for spring break I made them kibbeh hamda for Shabbat dinner. The hamud was made with sliced carrots, onions, celery, garlic, canned whole tomatoes, dried mint, a couple of short ribs and finished with lemon juice and salt to taste. This was served over white rice.

[melamed]

With the kids home for spring break I made them kibbeh hamda for Shabbat dinner.  The hamud was made with sliced carrots, onions, celery, garlic, canned whole tomatoes, dried mint, a couple of short ribs and finished with lemon juice and salt to taste.  This was served over white rice.

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You should change your name to kubadoo! That looks so good!

How big are the kibbeh, by the size of the spoon they are tiny! How long did it take you to make them (hours?)? Can I use fresh mint instead of dried?

[scubadoo97]

The kubba are about an inch, inch and a half long. That is a large serving spoon in the pot. These are the kubba I made a couple of weeks ago and posted photos up thread

They took a few hours to make taking into account I had to grind the meat and regrind with the ground rice then grind the meat for the stuffing. The actual assembly took maybe less than an hour to make 50 kubba

Edited March 15, 2009 by scubadoo97 (log)

[JTravel]

baharat spice mix

Could someone, or more than someone, post the spice mix recipe/suggestion. I'm guessing this is very regional/personal too.

This is a fascinating topic and I really want to make the fried kibbeh. One thing that turned up in the "Week without Shopping" thread was a lot of bulgur in a couple of sizes.

[melamed]

baharat spice mix

Could someone, or more than someone, post the spice mix recipe/suggestion. I'm guessing this is very regional/personal too.

This is a fascinating topic and I really want to make the fried kibbeh. One thing that turned up in the "Week without Shopping" thread was a lot of bulgur in a couple of sizes.

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in general, the syrians use cumin in their fried kibbeh and allspice in stewed ones.

The Iraqi's use baharat which I buy at the local spicestore. I don't know the exact recipe but it is heavy on cinnamon. I don't add very much because it can be over powering.

Clifford Wright's recipe for baharat includes cinnamon, allspice, black pepper and nutmeg.

[melamed]

I make the fried kibbeh from time to time.  From my last attempt

I am less skilled at soup kibbeh but will keep trying

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Do you know if kibbeh made with a meatless shell is a Jewish preference? Most of the fried kibbeh I see use meat in the shell, or is that just a regional thing?