Babbo (First 6 Years)

[Jason Perlow]

Lreda -

LOVE your avatar.

Who is that, exactly??

Thats Beavis (of Mike Judge's Beavis and Butthead) doing his Cornholio character.

[Jaymes]

Lreda -

LOVE your avatar.

Who is that, exactly??

Thats Beavis (of Mike Judge's Beavis and Butthead) doing his Cornholio character.

Oh.

Well, that blows MY theory.

[Lreda]

Lreda -

LOVE your avatar.

Who is that, exactly??

" Are you threatening me? My people have but one bunghole"

Cornholio, Beavis from Beavis & Butthead, a MTV cartoon from a few years ago.

Beavis, when injesting huge amounts of caffine or sugar become Cornholio. A very funny cartoon.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Lou - I don't know why I have to keep repeating the details. We weren't interested in a chef's menu. I just wanted to see how she would react. Since she didn't take the bait, we dropped it. But if she had gotten excited at our raising it, as they did when I had raised it at Trotter's three weeks ago, we might have tried it. As for planning a chef's menu in advance, I never had to order one in advance before. It isn't really much of a request. All you are asking the chef to do is to choose your meal for you. Either they do it or they don't. But I don't see how much extra work it is for a chef to say, oh yes, the pork loin was especially good today so that is what I will serve them.

[Lreda]

Lou - I don't know why I have to keep repeating the details. We weren't interested in a chef's menu. I just wanted to see how she would react. Since she didn't take the bait, we dropped it.

Steve, maybe I just don't understand why you're baiting the server. She should be interested in looking to enhance your dining experience but perhaps she didn't get your drift entirely.

Lou

[Steve Plotnicki]

Okay I'll repeat it without usingthe word "bait."

I asked our waitress what would happen if we told her to take the menus back and asked them to cook for us. She didn't seem to understand what it was I was asking her for.

How's that?

Some restaurants do that for people all of the time. Others don't. In this instance, either they don't, or she doesn't know anything about it. That's as close to a no as I was interested in getting.

Edited December 9, 2002 by Steve Plotnicki (log)

[jaybee]

Let me amplify. After the initial discussion and after the meal, the waitress came back and we sort of kidded her about not having the kitchen cook for us. She said she would have loved to advise of what to order. I said, no that's not what we meant. I asked her, "what if we just told you, "go into the kitchen and tell them there are six people who want you to make a menu for them. Let them choose what to serve us." She said, "oh they would love to do that. I would consult with you about allergies and then we'd make your meal." So I suppose it was a case of poor communication. She didn't understand what Steve was asking, and her answers, after two tries, was still not what we were asking. I guess had we persisted it might have worked, but clearly it was not something she was comfortable doing.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Jaybee you confusing turd. How can you treat the waitress like that? And how could you be so incompetant as to not get the message across so they would serve you the Italian meal of a lifetime? Do yourself a favor, next time you go to a restaurant, tell them you're a freind of Tommy's.

[Dave the Cook]

Okay so it is understood by all, what I recommended that people do at Blue Hill is a general recommendation providing a restaurant is willing to do it. If they don't offer it, or normally do it, I can't see how that advice is going to help you. Secondly, if anyone read this thread from the top, the waitress didn't seem to know what we were talking about. Finally, even if they did have a practice of doing it, that wouldn't have corrected the flaws in our meal which were a matter of the kitchen not executing properly.

Dave the Cook - The reason we explored it is because there has been so much talk about it. I can't speak for the others except Mrs. P who was dead set against it but, I wasn't really interested in it either. However, if my question brought a glimmer to the waitresses eye I might have felt differently about it.

OK, thanks to Steve P and Jaybee, I have a better sense of it. You were simply keeping your options open (vis a vis having the chef/kitchen choose your meal) until it became clear that working through this particular server (and by extension, possibly the kitchen) was not going to be worthwhile. Have I got that right? It makes sense to me.

But forget the server for a minute. Having the kitchen plan your meal almost certainly bypasses the problems related to faulty execution, by definition. That would be one of the reasons (though maybe not the main one) to do it, wouldn't it?

[Steve Plotnicki]

That's right. As I was trying to convey earlier, neither the sommelier nor the waitress were particularly responsive. Oh they were fine if you want to call going by the book as being fine. But they could have used our questions and comments as a way to turn the interaction into a more personalized one. But it appeared, at least to me and I bet Jaybee would agree, that what we were asking about was atypical, at least for this waitress.

[jaybee]

It appeared to me that neither the waitress of the wine steward took any interest in us beyong taking our order. They did not respond to any cues, and were perfunctory about their service. Any hip waitress and wine steward would have picked up immediately that we were open to an adventure in eating, came with a sense of fun and excitement. They treated us like we were just six stiffs waiting to be fed. And it was just the first seating so they couldn't have been worn out!

[stefanyb]

You know, I hadn't thought of this before Jaybee's last post but since the reso was for six o'clock, they must have thought you were there for the early bird!

Edited December 9, 2002 by stefanyb (log)

[jaybee]

Damn. I knew I shouldn't have worn the blue pants, white belt and the white shoes. Maybe that and my shirt that said Three cheers for Pincus Estates Phase 2 gave me away.

[SobaAddict70]

I have been reading this post from beginning to end with great interest because:

a: We have reservations on the 19th

b: I tried to get the reservation this past Thursday but found it was being used by egulleteers before I had the sense to PM Stefanyb.

We are actually thinking of giving up the reservation and going to Vong because it's closer to the theatre that evening.

I was really looking foward to going to Babbo but between the tenseness of posters and staff problems noted we are undecided.

Lou

I remember B&B from years past. Those were the days.

On Babbo, the cuisine is such that either you like it or you don't. I prefer to stick to an app, a pasta and a dessert. I don't really much care for Batali's sometimes overbold flavors when it comes to his mains, but that's more my preference than anything else. I tend to go for the simpler desserts (i.e., berries with balsamic vinegar and pepper). Its surprising to me that the panna cotta was inedible, but oh well. PC is one of those desserts that's hard to mess up -- all it is is milk, sugar and gelatin with the addition of saffron, cardamom and glazed pears. Maybe it was an off night.

Its interesting to note that SteveP mentions he liked Po but not Babbo, so it begs the question of did he like Po while Batali was there or Po after Batali moved on, because some dishes at Babbo are derived from Po's menu, and the same flavor theory works either way. (Actually, IMO, Po has degenerated since Mario left, but that's another story entirely.)

Regardless of how people feel about Babbo on this site, it remains one of my favorite restaurants (the spring menu has a sweet pea flan that is to die for). In fact, a few egulleteers and I have a reservation there in early January.

SA

Edited December 9, 2002 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[Steve Plotnicki]

I ate at Po a number of times when Batali was still there. In fact it was before they even opened Babbo. And I didn't say I don't like Babbo. I said two things about it. The food seems a little homogenized. And I don't understand what the big to do is all about? Some people have it as their favorite restaurant in NYC and I just don't get that. And even if they executed perfectly the cuisine there probably wouldn't shake my world. As I explained, the lamb chops scottaditta are marginally better then the ones at USC strictly on a conceptual level. Putting Italian food aside and looking at lamb chop dishes across the spectrum of U.S. restaurants, these wouldn't be anywhere near the best ones I ever had. Even if they were done perfectly. (the best ones by the way for anyone who is interested were at Darryl & Oliver's in Pompano Beach about 10 years ago where a goat cheese and pecan crust won the prize.) As for the Panna Cotta, I don't mean inedible as in you couldn't eat it, I mean inedble as in we tasted it and left it over.

[Ron Johnson]

Three cheers for Pincus Estates Phase 2 gave me away.

I received a cold-call on this a couple days ago. Something about a beautiful double lot overlooking the old sewage treatment plant lagoon where the PCB's are at an all time low and the recently stocked snakehead fish are flourishing. Sounds tempting. I requested a prospectus.

[jaybee]

And I didn't say I don't like Babbo. I said two things about it. The food seems a little homogenized. And I don't understand what the big to do is all about? Some people have it as their favorite restaurant in NYC and I just don't get that. And even if they executed perfectly the cuisine there probably wouldn't shake my world.

The fact that several people chose to interpret your post as a slam at Babbo is interesting. You did not say you didn't like it. You just told me you didn't think it belonged in the pantheon of Italian restaurants where so many people seem to put it. But I guess you are a person of such extreme views (and posts) that when you say something moderate it isn't perceived that way. That's just your brand image.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I just think it's a reaction to the extremely hard question of what makes it so special? Because what I am intrigued with is how people find it "the best" when they serve what they served us. It don't add up if you know what I mean. Fat Guy answered it best when he said that you have to superimpose that the people who say that generally prefer Italian food to begin with.

In my personal estimation I found it to be more American then Italian when we visited. Do you? Aside from the extensive pasta section, which almost lives in its own reality, I thought that you could have found anything on their menu at any number of places. Who was the one who said that what was so Italian about our lambchops, any middle eastern restaurant could have served them?

I wish it was more about serving cutting edge Italian dishes (which seems to go on with more frequency at Lupa) then just another "upper middle" restaurant with a cuisine derived from an ethnic cuisine. I would probably like it more.

[mikec]

(Actually, IMO, Po has degenerated since Mario left, but that's another story entirely.)

[vivin]

Interesting thread. I have been to Babbo about a dozen times in the past year alone. And I have not had a completely disappointing meal ever.

In my opinion, things to remember while dining at Babbo -

1) Desserts are mediocre save for the cheese and biscotti plates. dessert wines are good; however the choice of dessert wines by the glass is small.

2) I now know the sommelier - he is consistently able to put together good wines with our food selections. You can ask him to do the same.

3) The meat dishes on the main menu have been hit or miss (more miss than hit). Remember, they let you order things off the tasting menus - they are consistently excellent.

4) The specials are consistently excellent.

5) Appetizer and pasta sections are all pretty much very good.

This restaurant has been more consistent than most other high end places in NYC in my experience. It is high on yumminess - a rarity at the high end. And the price is significantly less than its uptown bretheren. I will continue to vote with my wallet and go there.

Keep up the debate if it deters people from going there. It is hard enough to get in as is.

[jaybee]

I think Vivin hit it on the head with the "yummie" factor. My experience is that I've had things to eat at Babbo that were "yummie." The beef cheeks ravioli and the lambs tongue salad, for example, are really very very tasty. I judge a restaurant, among other ways, but mainly, if there is something I ate there that makes me want to go back for more. So despite its flaws, Babbo delivers that to me and has on three or four occasions. That happens in about 5% of the restaurants I try. So it is a rare quality that is to be appreciated. I'm sure if I experimented on the menu I might find a couple of other dishes that would be "yummie" too. That would make it even better. Yummie is good enough for me.

[Liza]

In my family, we'd say "Yummy-lish" - combination of yummie and delicious.

[vivin]

Things I like on the Babbo menu (in no particular order) for whatever it is worth:

Beef cheek ravioli

goose liver ravioli

tongue salad

pumpkin lune

mint love letters

goat cheese tortelloni

pretty much the whole pasta tasting menu - pasta with bolognese and tagliatelle with squid ink being my favorites

venison off the main tasting menu

scallops marinated

steamed cockels (sp??) with Thai basil

about a dozen items off the specials including a killer linguini with uni and green chili sauce

the current pasta special with white truffles

the coach farm cheese with spicy fruit marmalade is very good

Forget it, it is making me hungry ...

I also had a really good meal at Lupa about two weeks ago. Those looking for REAL Italian food might want to try Lupa instead. I agree that Babbo is a derivation (but not a bad one as derivations usually are).

[SobaAddict70]

I ate at Po a number of times when Batali was still there. In fact it was before they even opened Babbo. And I didn't say I don't like Babbo. I said two things about it. The food seems a little homogenized. And I don't understand what the big to do is all about? Some people have it as their favorite restaurant in NYC and I just don't get that. And even if they executed perfectly the cuisine there probably wouldn't shake my world. As I explained, the lamb chops scottaditta are marginally better then the ones at USC strictly on a conceptual level. Putting Italian food aside and looking at lamb chop dishes across the spectrum of U.S. restaurants, these wouldn't be anywhere near the best ones I ever had. Even if they were done perfectly. (the best ones by the way for anyone who is interested were at Darryl & Oliver's in Pompano Beach about 10 years ago where a goat cheese and pecan crust won the prize.) As for the Panna Cotta, I don't mean inedible as in you couldn't eat it, I mean inedble as in we tasted it and left it over.

My god, are you going to parse everything I say too?

Obviously Babbo isn't on your "I like x" list. So it isn't too much to say that you "don't like Babbo" or that you "don't care for Babbo". Of course you didn't say that you "don't like Babbo". But it was implied. Also, in point of fact, you didn't answer the question of whether or not you like Po, only that you've eaten there a certain number of times. Babbo is a direct derivation of Po, and like it or not, the two places are very similar, right down to the flavor concept behind several dishes and the dishes themselves. The steamed cockles with Thai basil is an indirect derivation of the pasta with clams and chiles that is sometimes on Po's menu. Ditto for the lamb chops. The mint love letters are on both Po's and Babbo's menu. The two are not that very different so I was wondering why SteveP had a better experience at x and not at y.

As for the pc being inedible, I never said that it wasn't eaten, only that this is a dessert that's hard to mess up. You can read into that any number of things...

SA

Edited December 9, 2002 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[macrosan]

I just think it's a reaction to the extremely hard question of what makes it so special? Because what I am intrigued with is how people find it "the best" when they serve what they served us. ...Fat Guy answered it best when he said that you have to superimpose that the people who say that generally prefer Italian food to begin with.

In my personal estimation I found it to be more American then Italian when we visited. Do you?

Aha !!!! On another infamous thread which I recall included the word "relevant" in its title, I said that I didn't find Babbo to be a particularly Italian restaurant and I was much derided Now surely I have found fame and restitution, because I have the TenaciousP coming round to my way of thinking

Steve, you keep doing what you tell other people off for. You correctly identify that Babbo is many people's favorite restaurant in NYC, then you keep saying (as in the quote above) that they find it the best. There is a clear difference between those assessments. I have not yet seen a single eGulleteer naming Babbo as the best. Also, surely you recognize that your experience the other day of bad kitchen preparation and service is far from typical. You know that because of the high proportion of reports here that say you were unlucky.

The issue of preference of broad food style is an interesting one, and I think may be very telling here. Not wishing to diverge from the Babboness of this thread it is worth noting that many of the people who reported they weren't crazy about Blue Hill actually said that it just wasn't "their style of food". That's just subjective personal preference at work. Maybe the same is true at Babbo, and even though I don't think Babbo is particularly Italian in style (and not that that matters in any way), I could certainly see that Italophiles would like it more than Francophiles, and vice versa at Blue Hill. Interesting thought