Waiting even with reservations: an NYC trend

[LPShanet]

After many recent experiences, and comparing notes with a number of friends, I'm convinced that this problem is becoming much more frequent. You make a reservation, you show up, and your table isn't ready. Sometimes it's "just" 10 or 15 minutes. (It's worth noting that if you're that amount late for your reservation, the restaurant will usually give your table away, but they don't hold themselves to that same standard.) Other times, it's been more than 30. And certainly, how the restaurant handles this problem has as much to do with the final outcome/satisfaction as the length of wait itself. Has anyone else noticed an increase in this? Any thoughts on whether restaurants are changing their procedurals in a way that might be causing it? Allowing less time for turns? Overbooking more tables to allow for no shows? In my experience, many restaurants are also increasingly unapologetic about it.

Also, as a supplement to this issue, I think it's worth discussing how a restaurant should respond when a group is waiting for a table, and the table they're waiting for has lingered after paying the check. Restaurants seem positively TERRIFIED of saying anything to the customers who have wrapped up their meals, while they're more than happy to make groups of waiting diners stew even longer before being seated. From where I stand, this seems like really bad business. In many cases, the people who have paid their check would happily clear out and make room, but simply aren't aware that they're holding up some hungry future diners. I know I've been on the other side of that equation, and would happily have moved, but was simply unaware that I was hogging a needed table (caught up in conversation or whatever). The free drink would just be a bonus...I'd usually happily move for free, and in many cases be apologetic myself for not having realized the problem I'd caused. There's surprisingly little risk of a problematic outcome with saying something to the finished table. Meanwhile, the group waiting is probably hungry, short-fused and angry that their reservation isn't being honored. And once you get off on the wrong foot, it's much tougher to make those people happy, as they are probably looking for any additional little thing that goes wrong. By simply offering the finished group some free drinks at the bar or lounge as a thanks for moving and helping everyone out, the restaurant could avoid the problem at a much lesser cost, but almost none seem to want to pursue this strategy.

I've seen the problem at both high and low end establishments, and much to my surprise, the relative skill in handling the problem of a late reservation doesn't always seem to correlate to the level of the restaurant.

Edited November 23, 2008 by LPShanet (log)

[LPShanet]

This is by no means a listing of all of the cases that have happened, but a few that come to mind. (All occurred within the last 2-3 months):

Peasant: I had a reservation for four at 8:30. I showed up a few minutes early, and our whole party had arrived by 8:32. We arrived promptly for our 8:30 reservation. We were told that the table was not ready and were asked to wait. Mind you, we weren't offered any particular place to wait, just an instruction. As the bar was fairly full, we ended up having to stand in front of the hostess stand. A quarter of an hour later, we were told that the check had been delivered to the table which was to be ours. Still, no offer of a place to sit was made. We had been standing in the space near the hostess stand the whole time. Another 10 minutes later, we still had not been seated, and no one had bothered to talk to us again, nor to apologize any further. Finally, we were seated a full half an hour after the time of our reservation, having stood in the vestibule the whole time. In the intervening time, no one had apologized, we were never offered a drink, a snack or a glass of wine to put off our hunger, nor were we even given anywhere to sit in the bar while we waited. While it's far from compulsory to make some sort of gesture after completely dishonoring our reservation like this, most good restaurants would have made some effort. Instead we were totally ignored. I fully understand that it's difficult to politely ask a table to leave promptly once they've paid the bill, but the offer of a drink at the bar for either them or us would have gone a long way towards soothing annoyed people and moving the proceedings along. It's one thing if we walk in hoping to be seated without a reservation, but to dishonor an advance reservation by a full half hour without proper apology or attempt at managing the situation is rude and unprofessional. I emailed the restaurant twice afterward to discuss how things went down with a manager. No reply. I left a message by phone a few days later. Also no reply. To date, they've not contacted me back in any way. A shame, as I used to like Peasant.

Convivio: I had a reservation last night for five people at 8:30. We arrived at 8:29 and were told our table wasn't ready. I asked when it would be and was told rather snottily that they'd be sure to tell us when it was. We sat for 15 minutes in the front vestibule area/lounge. During this time no one ever came up to us and said anything. I then went up and asked how we were doing on being seated. Without even looking up or making eye contact, the hostess said, "I told you we'd tell you when it was ready." We waited 15 minutes more. A kind and concerned waiter walked by just as I was about to make my way again to the hostess stand, and seemed amazed that we were still waiting. He went up to the hostess on our behalf and talked to her for a bit. I'm not sure what the magic words he said were, but he then came and got us, and we were seated...just 35 minutes after the time of our reservation! Never during that time did they offer us a drink or a snack of any kind, nor did they even talk to us or apologize! In fact, they refused to look us in the eye. To add insult to injury, the table at which we were eventually seated HAD BEEN EMPTY SINCE WE FIRST ARRIVED!!! When we confronted the hostess about this, there was no satisfactory explanation. To the kind waiter's credit, he did his best to smooth things over, and even sent a few free sfizi to the table once we were finally seated. Still, if it were my place, the hostess team would be quickly fired. And you can bet we noticed the lags in service (and there were lags) after we were seated, which probably would have gone unnoticed had our arrival/seating not been so poorly handled.

Aurora (Soho): Reservation for a group of 9. We showed up and were told our table wasn't ready. We waited in the narrow bar area, and had been waiting for about 15 minutes, before being told the table we were waiting for had received their check. We figured it would be only a few more minutes. We figured wrong. Another 15 later, the somewhat apologetic hostess told us that the bill had long been paid, but the people were lingering. For some reason she was completely unable/unwilling/too paralyzed to say anything to them. I strolled back to have a look. It was three people hogging our 10 top!!!! First off, I was amazed that they had seated a group of three at such a big table on a busy night. But certainly it made no sense to piss off all nine of us while the three of them chatted away at the vast real estate they had been given. I'm guessing that if they'd said anything to them, they'd happily have gotten up, but even in a worst case scenario, why wouldn't you risk slightly offending a group of three rather than a group of nine people that included two (now possibly former) regulars? And if the three people had enjoyed their meal, they were surely in a better mood than the nine hungry folk who had now been waiting over 30 minutes! Eventually, they got up and left, and we were seated about 40 - 45 minutes late. They did eventually send a few free starters to the table.

Hearth: Had a reservation for 6 or 7 people, and showed up to find out they had completely lost it in the system (even thought it was made and confirmed via OpenTable). I honestly believe this was some kind of processing error, as they claimed they eventually found the res on some other random day. Still, we waited an hour before being seated! They did little in the way of apology and never sent anything over to us as far as I can remember.

Piccolo Angolo: Had a res for a large group for a birthday dinner on a Tuesday at 8:30. We were all there within about 10 minutes of the stated time. We were seated after 9:15. I'm not going to go into the details of this one, as I know the owner did his best for us, and it's a small place with few provisions for large parties. But I note it as part of the topic. Also, it's kind of creepy how all of the examples so far are Italian places with 8:30ish reservations. Maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere.

Double Crown: Reservation for four at 8:45 on a Friday. Considering this was a newly opened "hot spot", this could easily have been expected to be a likely offender. However, it should be noted that this was the only place that I thought handled the problem really well. ALL OTHER RESTAURANTS IN THIS POST, TAKE NOTE OF DOUBLE CROWN AND TRY TO IMITATE THEM, PLEASE! Three of our four arrived on time at 8:45 and were told the table wasn't ready yet. We were offered a seat at the bar, and almost immediately, a manager came over and offered to buy us all a drink for the inconvenience. We accepted, and noted not only how good the cocktails were, but also how nicely and professionally the problem was handled. Our fourth guest arrived about 7 or 8 minutes later, and before we could even finish our drinks (our late fourth was offered one as well), the table was ready. The wait had been shorter than any of the other experiences mentioned (about 15-20 minutes total), and we came away from it liking the restaurant even more than if we'd been seated on time, if that's possible. It's not rocket science, just good service and common sense.

The problems occurred in a variety of neighborhoods on reservations for a variety of party sizes, on a variety of days of the week. It seems logical that if you're going to make people wait on a fixed reservation, you might at least buy them a drink...even better send some food over. And do it right away, not after you've been complained to or hounded about an ETA for the table. Obviously people make reservations at mealtimes, and are therefore likely to be hungry. Trying to reason with hungry people is never smart. Pissing them off or making hungry people wait can't be a good customer service idea. It should be noted that in all the cases above, we were polite throughout and did not create a massive scene. Maybe we should have in a few cases (Convivio and especially Peasant, I'm looking at you.)

Edited November 23, 2008 by LPShanet (log)

[sickchangeup]

With things as bad as they are for restaurants, I'll just add these to the list of places not to bother with.

Personally I haven't noticed a thing lately. In point of fact, perhaps just the opposite. The economy seems to have made most places easier to deal with (Ssam bar for 3 on Friday night was only 5 mins wait). Most places I get to are happy to have me there and seat us right away.

But I'm not really the best one to say, cause a) I never eat out for Italian that requires a reservation b) I make it a point to avoid restaurants that are in fashion or "hot" as you put it for this very reason. For example, I'd love to try Scarpetta, but due to the two things above, I doubt I will for a long time. "hot" restaurants are also the most likely to not care about you, since if you leave someone else just slots right in.

Perhaps you've been hitting the hot spots more recently than before?

[kathryn]

We ended up waiting an extra 20-30 minutes for our 8:00pm reserved table at Babbo on Tuesday but the host said it was due to several lingering parties who had already paid the check. There were some angry people standing by me who'd been waiting in the cramped environs for a while. Otherwise I haven't noticed any change but I tend to dine on off nights or at no-reservations spots.

Bruni's written about waiting despite a reservation a few times.

http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/200...-sweep-comme-ca

http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/200...he-hardest-part

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/20/business...ml?pagewanted=3

I think the NYT has mentioned in passing something about restaurants deliberately overbooking without going into details or naming names.

Edited November 24, 2008 by kathryn (log)

[weinoo]

With things as bad as they are for restaurants, I'll just add these to the list of places not to bother with. 

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My feelings exactly.

And this can be added to the complaint that "we cant seat you until your whole party has arrived."

Think of how far a little snack would go to soothe the feelings of the waiting

party.

To me, it's just further proof of the decline of western civilization - both on the

part of the restaurant and the diners who have completed their meals and paid

their checks.

[oakapple]

I don't know if there's a trend here, or if LPShanet had an unlucky streak. If anything, the trend lately is that restaurants aren't as full as they used to be...for some reason.

It goes without saying that any restaurant ought to offer you a drink if your whole party shows up on time, and if they fail to seat you within a few minutes. Coaxing a lingering party to leave is a more difficult matter. A good manager will offer to buy them after-dinner drinks at the bar. The party will usually take the hint: they get a free glass of port or cognac, and you get your table.

If there actually is a trend, it could be that restaurants are packing their reservation books more tightly. If they feel they need to do that, then they should give a time limit. I don't mind being told, "Yes, we have a table at 7:00, but you'll need to be finished by 8:45." I know this is controversial, but as long as I'm told about it up-front, I don't mind such limits.

With things as bad as they are for restaurants, I'll just add these to the list of places not to bother with.

It's no different than any other glitch. I wouldn't write off a well known restaurant based on one report.

And this can be added to the complaint that "we can't seat you until your whole party has arrived."

At a busy place, this policy actually works to everyone's benefit—the restaurant's, as well as most diners. It's not acceptable at a fine dining restaurant, or if the place isn't busy. Otherwise, I don't have a problem with it. Edited November 24, 2008 by oakapple (log)

[sickchangeup]

If they feel they need to do that, then they should give a time limit. I don't mind being told, "Yes, we have a table at 7:00, but you'll need to be finished by 8:45." I know this is controversial, but as long as I'm told about it up-front, I don't mind such limits.

The only time I've ever been told this was when I booked Nobu (at 10am, 30 days in advance for 7 or 8 pm on a Friday), and while I was at first reaction a little put-off (being the first time) I didn't mind it after a second thought, and don't mind it now anymore. They gave us 2 hours, which was a reasonable amount of time, we finished before that on our own. 1:45 might be a bit tight though.

[LPShanet]

With things as bad as they are for restaurants, I'll just add these to the list of places not to bother with. 

Personally I haven't noticed a thing lately. In point of fact, perhaps just the opposite.  The economy seems to have made most places easier to deal with (Ssam bar for 3 on Friday night was only 5 mins wait).  Most places I get to are happy to have me there and seat us right away.

But I'm not really the best one to say, cause a) I never eat out for Italian that requires a reservation b) I make it a point to avoid restaurants that are in fashion or "hot" as you put it for this very reason.  For example, I'd love to try Scarpetta, but due to the two things above, I doubt I will for a long time.  "hot" restaurants are also the most likely to not care about you, since if you leave someone else just slots right in.

Perhaps you've been hitting the hot spots more recently than before?

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NB: I went to Scarpetta a few weeks after it opened and got in without a res on a busy night in just 10 minutes. Seems it's better to do that than have an actual res at the less "hot" places in my post above. And no, I haven't been hitting the hot spots more recently than before, though I'm not sure I even know what that means.

[LPShanet]

I don't know if there's a trend here, or if LPShanet had an unlucky streak. If anything, the trend lately is that restaurants aren't as full as they used to be...for some reason.

It goes without saying that any restaurant ought to offer you a drink if your whole party shows up on time, and if they fail to seat you within a few minutes. Coaxing a lingering party to leave is a more difficult matter. A good manager will offer to buy them after-dinner drinks at the bar. The party will usually take the hint: they get a free glass of port or cognac, and you get your table.

If there actually is a trend, it could be that restaurants are packing their reservation books more tightly. If they feel they need to do that, then they should give a time limit. I don't mind being told, "Yes, we have a table at 7:00, but you'll need to be finished by 8:45." I know this is controversial, but as long as I'm told about it up-front, I don't mind such limits.

With things as bad as they are for restaurants, I'll just add these to the list of places not to bother with.

It's no different than any other glitch. I wouldn't write off a well known restaurant based on one report.

And this can be added to the complaint that "we can't seat you until your whole party has arrived."

At a busy place, this policy actually works to everyone's benefit—the restaurant's, as well as most diners. It's not acceptable at a fine dining restaurant, or if the place isn't busy. Otherwise, I don't have a problem with it.

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If I did a statistical analysis, it would have to be more than just unlucky, as I know I had fewer such experiences in all of 1998 - 2004 than I did in the last three months. But as discussed, it amazed me that places like Convivio and Peasant were so rude about it. Especially Convivio, which gives the pretense of being a fairly high end place.

But I think it's worthy of separate discussion why so many places are so afraid to make the after dinner drink offer. Doesn't make sense to me. As you said, a good manager would do this, but almost no one does (at any level). They should be doing this without even telling the waiting party, as it's the restaurant's problem, not the reservation-holder's.

The idea of a time limit doesn't bother me at all, as long as the amount of time is reasonable. I have seen that a number of times, mostly at Japanese restaurants. I was given this option at various junctures at Sakagura and at Kyo Ya, for example, and was grateful that they had managed to squeeze me in. It might also go a long way to having diners be aware of their lingering.

Edited November 24, 2008 by LPShanet (log)

[Sneakeater]

When Gordon Ramsey at The London first opened and they said they were putting a (reasonable) time limit on every reservation, people in New York went apeshit.

[oakapple]

When Gordon Ramsey at The London first opened and they said they were putting a (reasonable) time limit on every reservation, people in New York went apeshit.

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At a restaurant like GR, which at the time was considered a NYT 4-star contender, it was unacceptable. For the prices GR was charging (and still does charge), you should have the table as long as you reasonably want it. Most of the places mentioned on this thread are far lower on the dining spectrum.

Also, I think GR did a number of things early on that made them seem arrogant. It's one thing to tell prospective customers in isolated cases that they'll need the table back after two hours. It's another thing to make a categorical public statement, especially for a new place at the apex of luxury dining that is trying to win over a new audience.

Edited November 24, 2008 by oakapple (log)

[Eatmywords]

No matter how long they’re squatting you’re taking a pretty big chance at ruining a perfectly good experience by asking any table to get up. The comp drink at the bar is often effective but can backfire esp if cash isn’t an issue. Better to risk pissing diners off on the way in than out. (Of course this is all trivial stuff : )

[LPShanet]

When Gordon Ramsey at The London first opened and they said they were putting a (reasonable) time limit on every reservation, people in New York went apeshit.

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At a restaurant like GR, which at the time was considered a NYT 4-star contender, it was unacceptable. For the prices GR was charging (and still does charge), you should have the table as long as you reasonably want it. Most of the places mentioned on this thread are far lower on the dining spectrum.

Also, I think GR did a number of things early on that made them seem arrogant. It's one thing to tell prospective customers in isolated cases that they'll need the table back after two hours. It's another thing to make a categorical public statement, especially for a new place at the apex of luxury dining that is trying to win over a new audience.

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These are good points. And the fact that GR was an outsider (read: non-NYer) didn't help. It might have been slightly easier to swallow from an already revered local (though not much).

[xospecialk]

Recently at Lucien, I was with a large group of about 8 people that dropped in on them on a friday night at around 9pm with no rez. Obviously they had no tables to accomodate us, but they told us to wait and they would try their best to seat us. 10 minutes passed, and we're still waiting, which was not a problem at all, and next thing you know, they bring out a basket of fries for the group of us to munch on while we waited.

it totally unexpected, and a very pleasant surprise. I wish more places were this accomodating

[RobinsonCuisine]

No matter how long they’re squatting you’re taking a pretty big chance at ruining a perfectly good experience by asking any table to get up.  The comp drink at the bar is often effective but can backfire esp if cash isn’t an issue.  Better to risk pissing diners off on the way in than out.  (Of course this is all trivial stuff : )

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As a manager, this has been my experience 60-75% of the time. (2 star level)

[LPShanet]

No matter how long they’re squatting you’re taking a pretty big chance at ruining a perfectly good experience by asking any table to get up.   The comp drink at the bar is often effective but can backfire esp if cash isn’t an issue.   Better to risk pissing diners off on the way in than out.  (Of course this is all trivial stuff : )

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As a manager, this has been my experience 60-75% of the time. (2 star level)

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The only problem with that theory is that, as a manager, you're only seeing the table that's still there. So your viewpoint isn't an accurate or complete representation of how both parties feel after this has happened. And not to be snotty, but it really doesn't matter how the restaurant feels. I know it's fairly common wisdom among restaurant folk that it's better to piss them off on the way in than the way out, but I totally disagree. It's easier to maintain good will after having done something to generate it. It's tough to ask for a favor or forgiveness if you haven't provided anything pleasurable or of value. It's just like a friendship: you can't really ask favors of new people as readily as those whom you've established a good rapport with.

In my experience, as a diner, when I have a great meal, and then I'm asked if I'm willing to free up a table, even if I'm upset, I'm less likely to remember it in light of the top notch meal and established high standard of service/food. However, when I start a meal off on the wrong foot, it's almost impossible for the restaurant to totally recover, no matter how well they do for the rest of the meal. If something isn't done at the bar while I'm waiting, I'll always remember it as a place with crappy service, even if the food is good. This is the case with Convivio, which I would probably recommend to friends had I not had the problems waiting, but now have a bad taste in my mouth (no pun intended), even though things were quite good all around once we were seated. There's no amount of good service that can be added later that makes up for the mistreatment on the front end. On the other hand, if I'd been asked (and it can be presented as a favor) if I was willing to vacate my seat after an excellent meal, I'd still feel good about the meal. The key is how you're asked. If you ask the table in a way that suggests they're doing you a favor (and you offer them something in return) rather than you're kicking them out (i.e. present it as the restaurant's fault for poor scheduling, not the table's for lingering), then there's little risk. And you can ask in such a way that they can say no if they want, even though I'm sure very few people would actually say no.

Edited November 29, 2008 by LPShanet (log)

[Robin Meredith]

With things as bad as they are for restaurants, I'll just add these to the list of places not to bother with.  

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And this can be added to the complaint that "we cant seat you until your whole party has arrived."

At the risk of hijacking this thread in a slightly different direction, I was absolutely shocked when I received this treatment (refused seating until the entire party arrived) at L'Atelier du Joel Robuchon a couple weeks ago. I have never before encountered this at a restaurant at this price point, and in the case of L'Atelier the problem is greatly magnified by the fact that they don't have a dedicated bar - I was directed to the Four Seasons bar, which was both packed and cacophonous. The last thing I felt like doing was hanging out in a hotel bar, so I had no alternative but to take a seat in one of the public areas in the lobby until my spouse arrived.

Amazingly, when I suggested to the maitre d' on the way in that they may want to reconsider this policy, his reply was a dismissive "perhaps".

Edited December 1, 2008 by Robin Meredith (log)

[oakapple]

L'Atelier's price zip code puts it in the top 1% in NYC—probably the top 0.05%. In that zip code, their policy is not defensible.

[LPShanet]

Well, here we go again. This time the offender was Commerce (last Thurs), and the way it went down was one of the worst in memory.

Arrived on time for our 8:15 reservation, and were asked to wait at the bar. 15 minutes later, no one had spoken to us or updated us. We asked about our table and were told "it won't be too much longer". At this point we noticed another group of 4 at the bar, who seemed to be in a fight with the hostess because they'd been waiting 50 minutes after the time of their reservation, and still weren't seated. (When they finally were seated, it was a terrible table right in front of the door.) I felt sorry for them.

Another 20 minutes passed (35 total), and we asked again. Now I felt sorry for us. This time we were told that the table had paid their check and they were just waiting for them to leave. As usual, though, they were unwilling to ask them to leave or move to the bar, and the hostess was quite snotty about things rather than apologetic. Another ten minutes and no change. At no time did they offer us a drink or any similar gesture. I walked up to the stand again, and suggested to them that they might want to offer the table we were waiting for a drink at the bar, since it was 50 minutes after our reservation! I further suggested that they might want to do the same for us, since they hadn't offered any such courtesy. She quickly said, "we'll buy your next round" and went off to check on the table. The attitude she gave off wasn't at all friendly, though...it was condescending. We were finally seated 55 MINUTES LATE, and the promise of a drink had been completely forgotten. I had to inform the waitress that the hostess had offered this, and send her off to check on it.

The service at the meal itself was also a fiasco. Getting to place our order took another 25. We were told that one of our mains would take about 35 minutes, which was fine with us, since we set up the meal to come as three courses (app, pasta, main), and thought the timing would be fine. It wasn't. After we finished our appetizers, we noticed it was taking an unusually long time to get our main dishes. When they did finally arrive, almost 30 minutes later, one of them was incorrect (the chicken), and the server immediately told us she'd get the correct dish coming. Unfortunately, it was the chicken that was supposed to take 35 minutes, but she assured us that she could shuffle orders around in the kitchen so that one that had already been started for another table was intercepted. She was wrong. 25 minutes passed. No chicken. 35 minutes passed. Still no chicken. 45 minutes passed. No chicken. Each time we asked about it, it was "almost ready". Meanwhile, several tables that had ordered after we already had received the wrong dish were starting to get the same chicken dish, so they clearly had not only not done the intercepting promised, but hadn't even put us first in the queue. Finally, having waited a total of an hour for the replacement chicken, we were all exhausted, and due to the slow pace of the courses, a bit full. We had been at the restaurant for over 3 hours now, without receiving our mains. We asked them to just wrap up the chicken to go, whenever it was done, since we couldn't stay any longer. 15 minutes later, we finally got our bags of chicken and paid the bill. They, of course, made no offer to comp it.

Finally, as we walked out of the restaurant, the hostess said goodbye and asked us how everything was. I told her the food that we got was good, but the chicken had taken so long that we had to take it with us. Instead of apologizing, she said accusingly, "Well, we told you the chicken takes at least an hour!". My jaw dropped. Not only had they been rude to us from the start and completely incompetent in honoring our reservation or providing service, but they now were not only not apologizing, but attacking me. Furthermore, she was lying outright, as we were told repeatedly during the ordering process that the chicken takes 35 minutes. That, of course, doesn't take into account the server bringing the wrong order first. In total, we had waited over an hour and a half for the chicken anyway.

At that point, I was really annoyed, and I asked one of the other hostess types, who had been watching this conversation from a few feet away, for the name and contact info of the manager. She gave them to me, and I left, planning to make a call the next day.

I'm not sure why, but when I got home, something made me think I should check into the manager's identity before calling. After a quick Google, I discovered that they had played an end run on me...the manager, whose name they had given me, was the actually the same hostess who had been so rude all along, and had yelled at me moments earlier about the chicken! No wonder she was so fearlessly horrid...she doesn't have to answer to anyone.

It seemed that almost everyone was seated very late for their tables, and most had reservations. These were not 10 or 15 minute latenesses, but 30 minutes plus in almost all cases. Shame on them.