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paulraphael

paulraphael

We're talking past each other Scott. I think I understand what you're saying. When I mentioned ambient temperature of the oven, I was talking about the temperature of the surfaces, and contrasting them with the radiant heat thrown off by a broiler. The former can be measured by temperature and emissivity of the surface; the latter can't. 

 

I don't know what's a "1 in 1000" broiler." I'm just talking about a powerful one. Nathan Mhyrvold has had success with some electric broilers; I've seen success with the kinds of gas infra-red broilers you see on BlueStar, Wolf, and DCS consumer ranges. I wouldn't worry too much about someone spending too much money on these ranges just to start a pizza hobby. Anyone who's that single-minded will just get a pizza oven. Or hack their self-cleaning ovens like Jeff Varasano, or do it outside on a steel in a kamado. 

 

I've read your thoughts on dough hydration. My short reply is that I disagree. My more nuanced reply is that I hate working with high-hydration pizza dough, so it's not a point I care too much about. I'll just suggest you'll have no trouble finding examples of extremely puffy focaccia and other hearth breads made with 80%+ hydration, and made this way for sound reasons. 

 

Go ahead and use the Brooklyn Neapolitan term. I'm pretty sure I didn't coin it. But know what I'm referring to. I'm thinking of places like Roberta's and Motorino and Wheated, which may even be following VPN rules (I don't know because they don't talk about it; Naples isn't part of their identity). But they go for a slightly different crust texture. The main difference is that it isn't quite as thin and soggy and self-destructing in the center. The slices have some substance, and won't completely flop into a puddle of soup when you pick them up (with this pizza knife and fork are optional). All these shops use wood or wood-hybrid ovens, because they're cool, not because they're mandatory. My favorites use natural leavening. They all use 00 flour because of the high heat, and they're all pulling 60 - 90 second pies. Roberta's at least in its incarnation from 5 years ago, was making the best pizza I've ever had.

 

Edited to add: upthread I mentioned substituting bromated flour, but I meant partially malted flour. It's the lack of malting that keeps Caputo pizza flour from browning at lower temperatures. Another compensation is to ferment longer, which creates more sugars. Some people just throw some honey in the dough. I don't work with Caputo flour so I don't know how longer than normal fermentation affects texture and flavor. 

paulraphael

paulraphael

We're talking past each other Scott. I think I understand what you're saying. When I mentioned ambient temperature of the oven, I was talking about the temperature of the surfaces, and contrasting them with the radiant heat thrown off by a broiler. The former can be measured by temperature and emissivity of the surface; the latter can't. 

 

I don't know what's a "1 in 1000" broiler." I'm just talking about a powerful one. Nathan Mhyrvold has had success with some electric broilers; I've seen success with the kinds of gas infra-red broilers you see on BlueStar, Wolf, and DCS consumer ranges. I wouldn't worry too much about someone spending too much money on these ranges just to start a pizza hobby. Anyone who's that single-minded will just get a pizza oven. Or hack their self-cleaning ovens like Jeff Varasano, or do it outside on a steel in a kamado. 

 

I've read your thoughts on dough hydration. My short reply is that I disagree. My more nuanced reply is that I hate working with high-hydration pizza dough, so it's not a point I care too much about. I'll just suggest you'll have no trouble finding examples of extremely puffy focaccia and other hearth breads made with 80%+ hydration, and made this way for sound reasons. 

 

Go ahead and use the Brooklyn Neapolitan term. I'm pretty sure I didn't coin it. But know what I'm referring to. I'm thinking of places like Roberta's and Motorino and Wheated, which may even be following VPN rules (I don't know because they don't talk about it; Naples isn't part of their identity). But they go for a slightly different crust texture. The main difference is that it isn't quite as thin and soggy and self-destructing in the center. The slices have some substance, and won't completely flop into a puddle of soup when you pick them up (with this pizza knife and fork are optional). All these shops use wood or wood-hybrid ovens, because they're cool, not because they're mandatory. My favorites use natural leavening. They all use 00 flour because of the high heat, and they're all pulling 60 - 90 second pies. Roberta's at least in its incarnation from 5 years ago, was making the best pizza I've ever had.

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