Chicken Stock

[Akiko]

I will admit that while I know the difference that chicken stock makes in adding depth and base for all manner of sauces and soups.... in New York I bought it from Citranella because they did such a good job at doing it, and then I didn't have to.

Here in London, devoid of my supplier, I'm going to be making my own.

Who has some great tips? What do you add to yours? Nothing? Onions, carrots? How long do you let yours simmer?

The only thing I'm sure of is not to let it come to a boil.... learned from watching Tampopo.

Thanks!

[Jinmyo]

Mire poix, bouqet garni. Sometimes add roasted chicken bones for deeper colour.

Simmer, simmer, skim, skim. About two hours.

Strain through chinois. Strain through filter.

Simmer to reduce.

No salt.

[ChefHDAN]

AU Contraire--- I was dispelled of the salt myth by a semi abusive chef who proved that some salt in the cooking process yields a much better stock than one salted afterwards. The tricky part is to remember what you'll be doing with the stock...basic soup with little reduction season well...Glace or reduction sauces season sparingly. Add lots of fresh herbs towards the end of the simmer, rosemary, thyme, parsley, dill (yes, dill, try it!). In the winter months that are approaching, a roasted chicken stock makes an awesome soup when combined with wild mushroom flavors.

Most important thing to remember, you'll only get out what you put in

[Jinmyo]

Yes, the main thing is to know how you'll use the stock afterwards. As I make gallons of reduced stock at a time and freeze it, I leave it pretty neutral and then jazz it to left or right for specific uses.

[Suzanne F]

This time wearing my home-cook toque: For an all-purpose stock that I can tailor later as need be:

First, the chicken: wings, bones removed when cutting up birds, giblets, skin, real pieces of lesser-quality birds (e.g. Perdue-type here in the US), and carcasses of roast chickens that I've saved in the freezer. If I remember to get some when I'm in Chinatown, some feet, too.

The mirepoix: carrot, celery, leeks if I have some (or leek greens, again saved in freezer); if no leeks, no onion-type ingredient.

The herbs: only parsley (and again, might be frozen stems).

The seasonings: no salt, maybe a few whole peppercorns.

Put it all in a big pot, cover with cold water. If I have any old chicken stock in the freezer, I'll usually add that too as a "starter" (sort of my version of pot au feu). Bring to a boil, then immediately turn down to simmer. Skim off scum if I remember to. Let it simmer for 2 - 3 hours. Strain through many layers of cheesecloth or through a cloth napkin. Chill overnight. Remove fat. Put back on the heat and reduce if it doesn't taste strong enough or if it didn't gel.

[Miss J]

I make both a European-style chicken stock and a Chinese-style one. My Euro one is similar to the ones already described (except probably nothing like as good ).

My basic Chinese stock is chicken and sometimes pork bones (both from Ling Foo in Chinatown), flavoured with crushed ginger and spring onions.

[Jinmyo]

Suzanne, the feet! I forgot about the feet!

[Suzanne F]

HOW COULD YOU, JINMYO!?!?!?!?

[Miss J]

Aside: when you buy your boiling bird in Chinatown, it comes with the feet. And the head too...

[Suzanne F]

And the heads float

[tony h]

I big on adding leeks & celeriac to the basic mire poix.

Also - a few star anise adds a nice depth (complementing the dill mentioned earlier). If roasting the bones - add a little v small amount tomato paste & roast that at the same time. Every 5 min or so I'll put the bones into a collander to removbe excess fat - then back into the roasting pan (on top of the stove). Garlic is also important - a whole bulb cut through its equator.

After a couple of hours of very gentle simmering - strain.

If the mood takes me - lots of fresh herbs mixed with egg whites - add and gently simmer for about 20-30 min. Cut a whole in the raft & carefully remove the perfecly clear stock. I'll then boil to reduce to taste required.

Resulting amber colour is quite impressive.

[Dave the Cook]

It strikes me that we've all been very helpful on ingredients and procedure, but if you've never made something before, what you need is a recipe, and we haven't actually provided one. Here's one that makes a rich broth and goes real quick:

For every kilo of meaty chicken scraps, have ready one half medium onion and one liter of boiling water.

1. Hack the chicken into 2-inch (50 mm) pieces. Chop the onion medium.

2. Sauté the onion in a little oil until tender. Remove.

3. Sauté the chicken parts in a little oil until they are no longer pink. Remove.

4. Deglaze the pan with a little water or wine, or a combination.

5. Return the chicken and onion to the pot. Cover, set the heat to low and let the contents cook for 20 minutes.

6. Add the boiling water. Adjust the pot to a simmer. Cover and simmer for another 45 minutes.

7. Strain, refrigerate, skim fat. Done. Strain again if it's not clear enough, or use the egg white technique.

Except for chilling, this whole procedure won't take more than an hour and a half. This may seem sort of radical, since we all learned that stock takes hours of gentle attention. I don't think it should have to. (Now, if I can just figure out a shortcut for beef and veal...)

You don't need to skim because the initial sauté denatures the meat proteins, and they won't float to the top--they'll merge with the rest of the ingredients and be strained out in the end.

Now, you can adjust with all those other wonderful things people are suggesting, adding them at step 6. If these additional ingredients require longer simmering, go ahead and simmer. You won't hurt the chicken.

As for salt, last weekend I made two batches of stock, each using four pounds of legs and two quarts of water. In one I used 2 teaspoons of salt; in the other, I used none. Before doing this, I grabbed few books to check proportions. Cooks Illustrated, Joy and The Way to Cook all listed salt in this amount for two quarts of stock and four pounds of scraps. Rene Verdon and Michelle Urvater omitted it (both are more likely to use stocks as glaces than straight). So I'm not without precedent here.

A visual inspection showed that the salted stock had developed much more gelatin. I believe this is because the salt accelerated extraction of the gelatin proteins. Presumably this could be overcome with longer simmering of the unsalted stock.

We did a tasting of straight stock, a 50% reduction and a 75% reduction. There were no real surprises. By the time the salted sample was down to 25% of its original volume, it was roughly the equivalent of seawater, though the chicken background was still quite robust. What was a little surprising was how little salt was needed to make a big difference in the fullness of the taste. By combining samples, I determined that 2 parts unsalted to 1 part salted rounded out the stock without a hint of identifiable salt flavor (one taster commented that she felt like she was "drinking chicken"). Oddly, adding salt directly to the unsalted sample did not have the same effect--tasters could tell the difference.

So unless you're making glace de voillaile, I recommend kosher salt at the rate of 1/4 teaspoon per quart.

And if you have no scraps, I heartily recommend using legs and wings in the ratio of 3 to 1. This should boost the gelatin content sufficiently in the absence of feet.

[Suzanne F]

WOW! Thank you, Dave. That was a terrific post. I learned a lot.

[Dave the Cook]

Suzanne: truly, I am flattered.

[Jinmyo]

That was a great post, Dave. Interesting experiment you conducted.

[Dave the Cook]

Thank you.

Maybe I should try mayonnaise next?

[Akiko]

Oooh,

Thank you for all the tips, I've printed them out and tonight will be making my first chicken stock from the carcass of the roasted chicken from last night's dinner.

And Dave, was that a joke? I'd love to see you do that with Mayonnaise? For that matter, does anyone have tips on mayonnaise making?

I made some miso mayonnaise last night using a Nobu recipe... it was not very thick, rather watery (called for two eggs and one cup of oil with some seasonings of rice wine, salt, miso... hang on, was I only supposed to use the yolks?)... but maybe that texture is what he intended, not what I intended at all.

Should we start a new thread on mayonnaise?

[Jinmyo]

I suggest digging up an old mayonaisse thread and reviving it.

[cakewalk]

4. Deglaze the pan with a little water or wine, or a combination.

Forgive this most basic question from one who is still learning to crawl, never mind walk, but: what does that mean? Exactly what would I be doing at this step?

Thanks.

[Basildog]

Find yourself a butcher, or deli that roasts chickens in that roastisier spining round type thing, and ask for the juice that collects in the draw.Refridgerate, take off the fat.....there you have chicken jelly.mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Just make sure you get a nice plain roast chicken batch, and not something covered in god awfull seasonings

[Suzanne F]

4. Deglaze the pan with a little water or wine, or a combination.

Forgive this most basic question from one who is still learning to crawl, never mind walk, but: what does that mean? Exactly what would I be doing at this step?

Thanks.

"Deglazing" means: after you take the stuff out of the pot, pour in a little liquid and scrape up the browned bits from the bottom of the pan (called the "fond"). Keep scraping those bits up into the liquid as it boils. As long as the fond isn't burned, it has a ton of flavor -- after all, it's the concentrated juices from the veg and chix. Plus this makes it MUCH easier to clean the pan later.

I'll bet you've been doing this all your life; but now you know what it's called.

[Suvir Saran]

I'll bet you've been doing this all your life; but now you know what it's called. 

I feel edumacated. Thanks!

Jokes apart, I always guessed this is what it meant.. and now I am sure. Thanks for taking time to explain what must be so second nature to a professional chef.

PS: I was going to ditto Cakewalks post.. but you answered before.

[cakewalk]

4. Deglaze the pan with a little water or wine, or a combination.

Forgive this most basic question from one who is still learning to crawl, never mind walk, but: what does that mean? Exactly what would I be doing at this step?

Thanks.

"Deglazing" means: after you take the stuff out of the pot, pour in a little liquid and scrape up the browned bits from the bottom of the pan (called the "fond"). Keep scraping those bits up into the liquid as it boils. As long as the fond isn't burned, it has a ton of flavor -- after all, it's the concentrated juices from the veg and chix. Plus this makes it MUCH easier to clean the pan later.

I'll bet you've been doing this all your life; but now you know what it's called.

Suzanne, thanks so much. Yes, I have been doing that sort of thing for a long time. HOWEVER -- I usually do it only to clean the pot! IOW -- after I've scraped, I dump everything. I take it that's not what to do here? This stuff becomes part of the stock? Thanks again, this is a definite "do."

[Suzanne F]

Only dump it if it's BURNED. Otherwise you're throwing out FLAVOR. And a much deeper flavor than you would have without it. Of course, it won't all dissolve back into the liquid, so you may have to strain out the solid bits, but it is very much worth the little bit of extra work.

[rslux]

Am I a nutjob for using root vegetables (generally rutabaga or maybe turnip) in my chicken stock along with the carrot, leek, and celery?