Favorite Cutlery

[oraklet]

wild pegasus,

the curvature of the blade on your knife is, it seems, rather "flat", like my french sabatier knives. this means that one must be very careful when sharpening so as to prevent having a hollow near the heel.

it seems to me that the handle is very low. don't your knuckles touch the board when chopping?

[Huevos del Toro]

These Portuguese knives sold by PCD seem good, and there's a Web clearance on the 12" chef's knife right now.

Got a link for this?

PCD (Professional Cutlery Direct) is cutlery.com and this is the page with the special offers:

http://www.cutlery.com/specials.html

Also an excellent source of cookware, and the print catalogs make great reading.

Snowangel & FG;

I was looking for an excuse to add to my cutlery and the Icel high carbon stainless 12-inch cooks knife is just the ticket. I currently use my 10-inch cooks knife for 80% of my chores. Tried 6-inch and 8-inch but much prefer my 10. But there are times that I wish I had a longer blade for chopping chores so maybe this Icel will fill the bill. And at $59.99 for a forged blade it's a steal. Thanks for the tip.

Note: PCD's ordering links are inoperative, at least for me, so I used their 800 number to order. 800-859-6994. The item number is 2e080207

Thanks again for the tip.

edited to close tags!

[Huevos del Toro]

They don't hold an edge very well, and are difficult to sharpen.  The fillet knife is sooooooo thick.  Granted, it could be my sharpening technique, but since I don't have that problem with other brands, maybe not.

Suzzane F;

I find the same thing with my F. Dick knives. Either we both need to change our sharpening technique or F. Dick's are in some way "different" than the rest of my cutlery.

[Fish]

Well, here goes with my first post !

For amazing (but pricey) knives and for the best sharpening job you've ever seen, you should check out Bob Kramer's site:

http://www.bladesmiths.com

He's a former cook, now a master bladesmith, written up in Saveur a few years back. I send my knives to him every year or so, and they come back so sharp it's almost scary - way sharper than the factory gets them. If you overnight your knives to him on a Monday, you'll have them back on Thursday.

One of these days when I'm feeling really rich I'm going to order myself one of his cook's knives - they're gorgeous.

- S

[jaybee]

For amazing (but pricey) knives and for the best sharpening job you've ever seen, you should check out Bob Kramer's site

Wow, Fish, that was a very bad thing you did. One look at Kramer's knives and I am immediately in the "have to have one of those" moods. I have several very good knives that need sharpening, so II'll start slow that way. Meiji or European? I wonder. That 6" Chef's knife looks like a beauty.

[Schielke]

I think ill send him my knife for some sharpening, I am in seattle and he is a couple hours north, so shipping shouldnt be too bad.

I also have an old sword that I guess he will sharpen too. sweet.

Ben

[jaybee]

I also have an old sword that I guess he will sharpen too. sweet.

I guess Ben hasn't seen those segments on the Antiques Roadshow where the expert meets the hopeful owner of some old sword he has been using as a doorstop for twenty years:

Expert: "Well, this is a fine specimen of an 1861 Southern cavalry sabre, used by the 3rd regiment, second division of Col. Bartholemew Jeremia Coburn's Army of the Housatonic. Very, very rare, there are just two known to have survived with the beveled hilt and engraved blood channel. Do you have any idea what it is worth?"

Hopeful and slightly dazed owner: "Well no, not really. But a neighbor told me it looked old and might be worth a pretty penny."

Expert: "Well, in it's original condition a sword like this fetched $475,000 at auction last year. But unfortunately you've had this sword sharpened and cleaned, and that reduces its value to a collector to about $11.99."

Owner faints.

[Schielke]

I also have an old sword that I guess he will sharpen too. sweet.

I guess Ben hasn't seen those segments on the Antiques Roadshow where the expert meets the hopeful owner of some old sword he has been using as a doorstop for twenty years:

Expert: "Well, this is a fine specimen of an 1861 Southern cavalry sabre, used by the 3rd regiment, second division of Col. Bartholemew Jeremia Coburn's Army of the Housatonic. Very, very rare, there are just two known to have survived with the beveled hilt and engraved blood channel. Do you have any idea what it is worth?"

Hopeful and slightly dazed owner: "Well no, not really. But a neighbor told me it looked old and might be worth a pretty penny."

Expert: "Well, in it's original condition a sword like this fetched $475,000 at auction last year. But unfortunately you've had this sword sharpened and cleaned, and that reduces its value to a collector to about $11.99."

Owner faints.

Hehehe, sweet.

The sword I found in my grandfather's office after he passed away some years back. It is an old samuri style sword that looks like it was from WWII.

Part of the handle is broken (I guess the bolster, unless it has another name) and the blade is quite dirty. It doesnt have any kind of ornaments on it, it seems pretty utilitarian.

Any guesses?

Ben

[torakris]

I also have an old sword that I guess he will sharpen too. sweet.

I guess Ben hasn't seen those segments on the Antiques Roadshow where the expert meets the hopeful owner of some old sword he has been using as a doorstop for twenty years:

Expert: "Well, this is a fine specimen of an 1861 Southern cavalry sabre, used by the 3rd regiment, second division of Col. Bartholemew Jeremia Coburn's Army of the Housatonic. Very, very rare, there are just two known to have survived with the beveled hilt and engraved blood channel. Do you have any idea what it is worth?"

Hopeful and slightly dazed owner: "Well no, not really. But a neighbor told me it looked old and might be worth a pretty penny."

Expert: "Well, in it's original condition a sword like this fetched $475,000 at auction last year. But unfortunately you've had this sword sharpened and cleaned, and that reduces its value to a collector to about $11.99."

Owner faints.

Hehehe, sweet.

The sword I found in my grandfather's office after he passed away some years back. It is an old samuri style sword that looks like it was from WWII.

Part of the handle is broken (I guess the bolster, unless it has another name) and the blade is quite dirty. It doesnt have any kind of ornaments on it, it seems pretty utilitarian.

Any guesses?

Ben

Check out the following site

http://www.samuraisword.com/

They have a section called evaluation, that helps you find out what type of sword you have and whether or not it is worth anything.

My husband has a couple os Japanese swords that I have also been thinking about getting appraised.

[torakris]

In an earlier posting I mentioned my Kyocera ceramic knife that I wasn't really happy with, now I am even more not happy.

I dropped it on the floor today as I was putting it away (missed my feet!) and it chipped a good 1/2 inch off the tip!

No more ceramic knives for me.

[Schielke]

I also have an old sword that I guess he will sharpen too. sweet.

I guess Ben hasn't seen those segments on the Antiques Roadshow where the expert meets the hopeful owner of some old sword he has been using as a doorstop for twenty years:

Expert: "Well, this is a fine specimen of an 1861 Southern cavalry sabre, used by the 3rd regiment, second division of Col. Bartholemew Jeremia Coburn's Army of the Housatonic. Very, very rare, there are just two known to have survived with the beveled hilt and engraved blood channel. Do you have any idea what it is worth?"

Hopeful and slightly dazed owner: "Well no, not really. But a neighbor told me it looked old and might be worth a pretty penny."

Expert: "Well, in it's original condition a sword like this fetched $475,000 at auction last year. But unfortunately you've had this sword sharpened and cleaned, and that reduces its value to a collector to about $11.99."

Owner faints.

Hehehe, sweet.

The sword I found in my grandfather's office after he passed away some years back. It is an old samuri style sword that looks like it was from WWII.

Part of the handle is broken (I guess the bolster, unless it has another name) and the blade is quite dirty. It doesnt have any kind of ornaments on it, it seems pretty utilitarian.

Any guesses?

Ben

Check out the following site

http://www.samuraisword.com/

They have a section called evaluation, that helps you find out what type of sword you have and whether or not it is worth anything.

My husband has a couple os Japanese swords that I have also been thinking about getting appraised.

Neato, Ill have to check it out tonight!

Thanks,

Ben

[Huevos del Toro]

These Portuguese knives sold by PCD seem good, and there's a Web clearance on the 12" chef's knife right now.

FG;

I just received the 12-inch chef's knife from PCD. It's a hefty bugger at 418 grams (14 3/4 oz.). From the knife: ICEL (Edge Resources, Inc.) made in Portugal.

For $67.49 USD (includes shipping) it looks to be a heck of a deal. Time will tell, but the balance feels good. Item #ed271741530

Edited to add URL: Edge Resources www.edgeresources.com/mainframe.html

You can purchase on-line from them.

[pjs]

Here is a condensed version of what I know about sharpening blades.

There are three currently popular methods:

1. With hard natural stones--i.e. the Arkansas'.

2. Japanese water stones.

3. Sandpaper on glass.

All the above methods work equally well when you understand that there are three distinct steps to sharpening a blade.

1. You get rid of the nicks and other nasty stuff with a workout on a coarse stone or paper.

2. You then sharpen the blade with increasingly finer grits. This is where most culinary-based sharpening instructions stop.

3. This is the secret. You need to hone the edge to a mirror-like finish in order to get that scary-sharp blade that will shave the hairs off your forearm. This is accomplished by stropping the blade on leather with a polishing compound, or using a super fine water stone (6,000-8,000) or sandpaper (2,000+).

By the way, all a steel does is straighten out the wavy edge you developed by using that ridiculously low blade angle. It also ruins all the honing you did in step three.

PJ

[oraklet]

wouldn't it depend on what you want to cut? i believe that an ever so slightly rough edge - like what you get when honing with a steel - works better for a ripe tomato than does a mirror polished edge. stropping is for razors, i think.

edit: "with a steel"

[Fat Guy]

Huevos, please keep us posted on that ICEL knife. If the brand proves worthy it will be a good bit of knowledge for us to have.

[Fat Guy]

I was just sharpening my knives, so I snapped a photo of the whole collection. Behold, the Fat Guy cutlery inventory:

Should you wish to discuss, please reference by number.

[LaNiña]

Please discourse on No. 9.

[Fat Guy]

Ah, number 9. That's actually a sore point for me. Number 9 is an incredibly versative 5" utility knife. It's technically a piece of crap, one of those "never-needs-sharpening" mirror-finish stamped blades, very thin, with bizarre-looking teeth that conceal its underlying dullness. I bought four of them at Zabar's about a decade ago. I knew I should have bought more. Now I can't find that size, shape and configuration anywhere. The only indication of brand is "fine stainless steel lifetime cutlery japan." I look and look but find nothing like it. It's the knife I throw in a picnic basket, in the car, wherever I need a cheap knife that can do pretty much anything. If I'm feeling lazy and I'm just slicing one slice off a tomato or whatever I just grab one of them and use it. I wash them in the dishwasher. They also pinch hit as eating knives, even though I have a set of nice Laguiole steak knives.

[pjs]

oraklet, I totally agree with you--it depends what you want to cut. Boning knifes won't benefit from being honed. However a freshly honed chefs knife is truely a thing of beauty. It makes short work of slicing tomatoes. Stropping is only used by the fanatics that insist on using nothing else but Arkansas stones dripping in grungy oil. I prefer water stones--start to finish.

Steven, I didn't see a clam knife in your collection. Or an oyster knife for that matter. I can only hope you don't steam them open.

PJ

Edit: I just noticed #1. Do you have a finishing stone?

[torakris]

Ah, number 9. That's actually a sore point for me. Number 9 is an incredibly versative 5" utility knife. It's technically a piece of crap, one of those "never-needs-sharpening" mirror-finish stamped blades, very thin, with bizarre-looking teeth that conceal its underlying dullness. I bought four of them at Zabar's about a decade ago. I knew I should have bought more. Now I can't find that size, shape and configuration anywhere. The only indication of brand is "fine stainless steel lifetime cutlery japan." I look and look but find nothing like it. It's the knife I throw in a picnic basket, in the car, wherever I need a cheap knife that can do pretty much anything. If I'm feeling lazy and I'm just slicing one slice off a tomato or whatever I just grab one of them and use it. I wash them in the dishwasher. They also pinch hit as eating knives, even though I have a set of nice Laguiole steak knives.

I think I have this exact same knife, or at least one extremely similar. I use it for all the same things you mentioned and since I don't own steak knives, it does double duty at the table knife. For my husband that is, I use the paring knife. Someday I will break down and get a nice set of tableware.

[Fat Guy]

PJS, I consider the oyster knife, the swivel-bladed parer, and the like to be in the special-purpose tool category rather than the knife category. I was thinking of photographing my whole toolkit but the photo would have been too busy. If somebody starts a "What's in your toolkit besides knives?" thread, though, I might do that. My priority purchases coming up are a santoku and a granton slicer. In terms of stones, that's the only one I have. The grit is very fine, though I can't recall the number. I sharpen my knives frequently so I never find myself needing to go to a rougher stone. At some point I may upgrade my sharpening equipment but since my knives are already the sharpest of anyone I know I haven't made new equipment a priority.

[Nick]

Stropping is only used by the fanatics that insist on using nothing else but Arkansas stones dripping in grungy oil.

Steven, I didn't see a clam knife in your collection. Or an oyster knife for that matter. I can only hope you don't steam them open.

The best grungy oil to use is whale oil (sperm oil.) It's no longer on the market, but you may be able to find some at a gunshop that's been in business for many years and has some on a shelf in the back. I used to use Nye Oil, but with the whaling ban, it disappeared. Last year I was at my local gunshop/gunsmith and he was showing me the way back of his shop and I spied many cans of Brownell's sperm oil on a shelf. I said, "You've got sperm oil!" He said, "Yeah, I had to do a lot of jerking off." He gave me a can. I later went back and bought 4 cans at $25/can. I'm not in favor of resuming whale hunting, but there is no better oil.

As far as opening clams, I'll tell you how some clam shuckers do it around here. Commercial clam shuckers. Wash the clams, place them in a suitable container, pour boiling water over them, and let sit for no more than 1/2 minute. Drain and immediately cover them with cold water. Then shuck. No flavor is lost and the neck skins come off easily.

[project]

  Fat Guy:

 

  Thanks for the pictures.

 

  For discussion, sure, what about the big one, I

  believe second from the right, number 15?

 

  For more questions, any experience with knives of

 

  Grohmann Knives Limited

  Head Office/Factory

  PO Box 40

  Pictou, Nova Scotia

  Canada B0K 1H0

 

  http://www.grohmannknives.com/

 

  They have four lines of kitchen knives. The best line is

  called the Forged Line.

 

  Their page

 

  http://www.grohmannknives.com/pages/forged.html

 

  mentions their 10" chef's knife in the Forged Line:

 

  10" also available

  #209FG-10

 

  That page has a picture of their 8" version but not the 10"

  version.

 

  Apparently retail sales are handled not by Grohmann directly

  but by 'dealers'. One at

 

  http://www.knifezone.ca/grohmann/209FG-10.htm

 

  gives details

 

  Manufacturer: Grohmann

  Name: Ten inch heavy duty chef

  Weight: 11.1oz 314g

  Blade: 10" 25.4cm

  Overall Length: 15.5" 39.4cm

  Handle: Rosewood

  Rockwell: 54-56

  Retail: $104.00

  Our Price: $88.40

 

  Model (GR-209fg-10)

 

  and these prices are in Canadian. The Grohmann Web site

  (under Site Map) shows several kinds of handles, but this

  Forged Line 10" chef's seems to be available in only Rosewood

  (one dealer seems to say that two other options are available

  at special order, for a 'set' of several knives, with an extra

  charge).

 

  Own Sabatier with blade (the sharp part) about 9 1/2" long

  seems fairly heavily made and weighs 9 ounces.

 

  For knife sharpening,

 

  (1) Any ideas how to get a 15 degree angle between (A) the

  plane of the cutting surface of the sharpening 'stone'

  and (B) the plane in the center of the knife, the plane

  that bisects the angle of the sharp edge? That is, with

  such a 15 degree angle, the angle of the sharp edge would

  be 30 degrees. A 15 degree angle is considered

  relatively sharp; 20 degrees is more standard.

 

  (2) Any ideas on how to keep a 15 degree angle, or any angle

  selected, on the most strongly curved part of the edge,

  that is, the part near the sharp tip?

 

  (3) Any experience with the diamond sharpening 'stones' of

 

  http://www.dmtsharp.com/

 

  Diamond Machining Technology, Inc.

  85 Hayes Memorial Drive

  Malborough, MA 01752 USA

 

  http://www.dmtsharp.com/

 

  They have several grits including

 

  Grit Color Code Mesh Micron Application

 

  Extra-Fine Green E 1200 9 Polishing & refining

  fine edges and

  precision tools

 

  Fine Red F 600 25 Maintaining regular

  razor edges

 

  Coarse Blue C 325 45 Quickly restores dull

  or neglected edges

  of knives and tools

 

  X-Coarse Black X 220 60 Rapid material

  removal for dressing

  nicked or damaged

  knives, axes &

  lawnmower blades

 

  In a kitchen, first three would be of the most interest.

  The last one would might be of interest in kitchen for

  sharpening a hatchet used for breaking bones.

 

  The extra-fine seems to have a grit size of 9 microns.

  Well, that's about 90,000 Angstroms or about 90,000

  hydrogen atoms wide.

 

  Also they make a jig (device, clamp) for a knife and a

  stone to help get a particular angle at the edge.

 

  A retail source is at

 

  HTTP://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?DMTAKEF

 

  and describes the jig

 

  Model DMT AKEF

  2 Stone ALIGNER DIAMOND SHARPENER KIT

  Kit includes Fine, and extra fine grits

  Pre-set guide rods adjust for seven different honing

  angles. Large thumb screw makes clamping easy, even

  with wet fingers. Extremely durable glass reinforced

  poly carbonate construction. All kits include a

  black fabric travel pouch. Cam-lock handle accepts

  all 4" DMT Diamond Whetstones TM. Powerful gripping

  clamp will not scratch the knife. Long lasting DMT

  Diamond Whetstones TM remain flat and offer fastest

  sharpening. Guide clamp can be used on bench stones.

  This system does not have a "serrated knife" stone

  available. The Diafold Folding Serrated Sharpeners

  are reccommended in conjunction with this kit for a

  total sharpening solution.

 

  So, they include two stones, apparently fine with grit

  600 and extra-fine with grit 1200. Other sources on

  sharpening suggest that a razor can be done at 600 grit

  and 1200 is the last step before a leather strop with

  paste.

 

  Any experience with the knives of

 

  George Tichbourne

 

  http://www.tichbourneknives.com/

 

  Any experience with his 10" chef's knife.

 

  His Web site says that he uses Rockwell C hardness 56-58 and

  that this is harder than most metal files.

 

  His Web site says that he uses a DMT bench 'stone' for his

  sharpening and prefers an angle of 17 degrees. He says that

  he uses just the DMT fine grit, that it leaves a smoother edge

  than the coarse grit and that the fine grit, being diamond,

  cuts plenty fast enough. So, two grits, fine and extra fine,

  should be sufficient for a very smooth nearly razor edge.

 

  Any experience with Rockwell hardness values?

 

  At

 

  http://www.on-the-edge.ca/1-knives/A-grohm...ohmann-main.htm

 

  it seems that Grohmann uses Rockwell C values 54-56 for their

  kitchen knives and 56-58 for their hunting knives (presumably

  a higher number means a harder metal).

 

  Some of us have big hands and can find that knuckles can hit

  on the cutting board and, thus, want a chef's knife with a lot

  of distance between the bottom of the handle and the cutting

  board. My Sabatier seems to have about 1 1/4" for the

  fingers, and that's enough if keep second joint from the

  finger tips on the side of the handle but not enough if let

  that joint get under the handle. Any measurements, experience

  on this point with other chef's knives?

 

  At

 

  http://www.agrknives.com/kyocera/index.html

 

  is a collection of kitchen knives from Kyocera and with blades

  of Zirconia Ceramic claimed to "hold an edge far longer than

  any metal knife". Their 8" chef's seems to go for $225

  Canadian.

 

  Any experience?

 

  Any experience with

 

  Icel 12" Chef's Knife $59.99

 

  at

 

  http://www.cutlery.com/specials.html

[Fat Guy]

Number 15 is a Wusthof Classic 10" chef's knife. It's the best and most heavily utilized knife in my collection. It weighed in at 10.3 ounces just now, though it probably weighed more when I got it a decade or so ago. I'll defer to more serious knife people on your other questions, though please note Huevos's post above -- he just bought an ICEL and should have an evaluation for us soon.

[Nick]

Number 15 is a Wusthof Classic 10" chef's knife. It's the best and most heavily utilized knife in my collection. It weighed in at 10.3 ounces just now, though it probably weighed more when I got it a decade or so ago.

With nothing better to do at the moment, I just weighed my nearly new Wusthof Classic 10" cook's knife (which is also my most used knife). Came in at 9 3/4 oz. Are they starting to skimp on the steel?