Favorite Cutlery

[Jinmyo]

I have a favourite Henckel. And a favourite Wusthof.

[Fat Guy]

Go into any kitchenware store and pick up a Wusthof and a Henckels in the same size and handle material. You'll notice pretty quickly that you're dealing with two different levels of craftsmanship.

Clearly craftsmanship is not the only criterion. As Wusthof is superior to Henckel, so Henckel is superior (in craftsmanship) to Dexter and Chicago. Yet people claim them as favorites.

That's a fair point. People can have favorite knives for lots of reasons, some of which make sense and some of which just indicate a lack of knowledge, experience, skill, or whatever. I can't really dismiss any individual's choice of knife without first spending a lot of time in a kitchen with that person. But I can say that among professionals in Western restaurant kitchens you'll find a very clear hierarchy with the big-ass German knives like Wusthof and F. Dick at the top. I guess in France they use some French knives, but nobody else does. Then there seems to be a minority view embracing knives like Global. Those limited by economics go with Forschner or another semi-disposable brand. But I haven't seen a lot of Henckels in cooks' toolkits (paring knives, sure, but not the big chef's knives) and I don't think I've ever seen a Chicago.

[CathyL]

Some things I've come to believe;

Best Edge---Sabatier Carbon

YES. I have a nice collection of Wusthofs and a few Globals, but the knife I usually reach for is an old old Sabatier inherited from a friend. It keeps a wicked edge for a long time.

[ngatti]

For the most part you're right FG. Victorinox and Dexter's make good butcher knives. The stamped blade cook's knives are used as 'house knives' for my prep staff.

Re: the F. Dick Knives: They're good knives. Better than Henckel? I don't know. I do know that Roberta Schiff covers the various area restaurants pretty well with her sales staff. Kinda like the knife version of the Fuller Brush man. I have a couple.

The henckel vs Trident debate continues. I prefer Wusthoff for design reasons. I have noticed that while (it seems to me) that top line Henckels, which used to be comparable with Wusthof, has remained the same, The wusthofs seem to have improved the quality of what was alreafy a very good knife.

As far as paring knives are concerned, and as a matter of personal taste, I find the top line heavy german knives (trident, henckels, etc...) to be too expensive and poorly designed to do any fine work. The heels and the blades are too thick. Uneccesary, IMO, for the finer work that I use these knives for. I prefer the almost disposable 3 paks of different shaped stamped blades that both these manufacturers offer.

Nick

[Dave the Cook]

I bought my first Henckel knife mumbledy-mumble years ago when I when they let me fill in in the kitchen of the hotel where I worked as a purchasing agent. The Chef told me if I was going to be serious, I should get some good knives. Where to start? I asked. German, said he. Trident. Henckel.

These names were not familiar to me. Previously I had only seen Forschner, Dexter, etc.--as ngatti says, "house" knives--which I had purchased for prep cooks and general use. So I got a Henckel 10" chef's knife, because no place in town had Wusthof (we're talking Atlanta, 19-mumble). The knife seems fine to me, though I don't use it much any more. But, based on ngatti's comment that the line seems to have changed, I think maybe we're looking at a difference in pre-/post mass market design--like Fender Stratocasters made before and after CBS bought them, or a Marantz stereo amplifier before they decided they just had to be on every bookshelf in middle-class America.

I also like those 3-packs--cute and useful, dishwasher safe, ultimately cheap enough to be disposable.

[Schielke]

I bought my first Henckel knife mumbledy-mumble years ago when I when they let me fill in in the kitchen of the hotel where I worked as a purchasing agent. The Chef told me if I was going to be serious, I should get some good knives. Where to start? I asked. German, said he. Trident. Henckel.

These names were not familiar to me. Previously I had only seen Forschner, Dexter, etc.--as ngatti says, "house" knives--which I had purchased for prep cooks and general use. So I got a Henckel 10" chef's knife, because no place in town had Wusthof (we're talking Atlanta, 19-mumble). The knife seems fine to me, though I don't use it much any more. But, based on ngatti's comment that the line seems to have changed, I think maybe we're looking at a difference in pre-/post mass market design--like Fender Stratocasters made before and after CBS bought them, or a Marantz stereo amplifier before they decided they just had to be on every bookshelf in middle-class America.

I also like those 3-packs--cute and useful, dishwasher safe, ultimately cheap enough to be disposable.

My Grandfather used to sell Henkels knives in his store way back in the day. I do believe they are completely different products today. The ones my parents still have from his shop are very well made pieces. I have used some of the new ones and, while better than most knives people use, the craftsmanship is just not there anymore.

Ben

[Nick]

....I think maybe we're looking at a difference in pre-/post mass market design--like Fender Stratocasters made before and after CBS bought them, or a Marantz stereo amplifier before they decided they just had to be on every bookshelf in middle-class America.

Not to get off topic, but I wonder what would have happened if Leo had not sold out to CBS. Been playing Tele's going on 40 years and think my latest Mexican one does pretty good.

Now back to knives. Wusthof and Dexter.

[KatyM]

I don't know if it's entirely evident from these photos, but here are two comparable knives (Grand Prix versus Four Star) from Wusthof (top) and Henckels (bottom). I'm pretty sure these are both 8" chef's knives being depicted, though unfortunately the images are not scaled identically. Quality of construction aside, I just think the Wusthof blade has a superior shape. Do you see how triangular the Henckels is by comparison? It really screws up the rocking motion you need to get going to be efficient at repetitive chopping tasks. It's also a much less substantial knife, though that's harder to see.

Wusthof:

Henckels:

[ngatti]

I've been doing this for nearly 25 years and I agree Katym. Quality issues aside, this is the main reason I have always preferred Tridents. But the knife that sees the most action is a Henckel Santuko. I love it.

Nick

[KatyM]

Just to clarify for those reading along, the full names of these companies are:

Wüsthof-Trident

Zwilling J.A. Henckels

So you'll see some people referring to Wusthof as Trident, etc.

[Nick]

Quality of construction aside, I just think the Wusthof blade has a superior shape. Do you see how triangular the Henckels is by comparison? It really screws up the rocking motion you need to get going to be efficient at repetitive chopping tasks.

Katy, That's how I came to use Wusthof only about a year ago. I'd never had a chef's knife and I tried out the three different makes at the store with the rocking motion on an available surface. Wusthof was the only one that "rocked" - the others went "clump."

[Fat Guy]

Oops. Sorry folks. Those last two posts from KatyM, those were from me. I was helping someone straighten out a registration problem and forgot to log out after testing the account! So, Katy will have a leg up when she posts her first post -- her counter is already at 2!

Bigbear: Don't you dare . . .

[Wild Pegasus]

I bought a 9.5" Sanelli Premana Professional chef's knife on the weekend from a restaurant supply store. How would that compare to the knives being discussed on this thread?

[Fat Guy]

I've seen them at Broadway Panhandler, I think. They're nice -- pretty much the quality equivalent of the Forschner stamped knives. The things that are better about a Wusthof or equivalent knife are that the blades are forged (making for a more substantial, longer-lived, and most would say better blade) and that they have a full tang, which is to say the metal goes all the way to the end of the handle. The stamped knives like you're talking about have "rat-tail" tangs that only go partway into the handle. How much did you pay for it? Assuming it's at the level of quality I'm thinking of, it's a good knife for around $30.

[Dave the Cook]

Been playing Tele's going on 40 years and think my latest Mexican one does pretty good.

I never could get into the Fender experience--the rounded neck (reminiscent of the subtle curve of a Wusthof chef's knife) and lack of fretboard. I'm first and foremost a bass player, but when I do need an electric 6-string, I've got an old Gibson Melody Maker. It's a plain, gritty-looking thing (Les Paul shape, but no bindings; dark, dark cherry finish; one double humbucker and one lipstick pickup), perfect for my trashy playing.

the knife that sees the most action is a Henckel Santuko. I love it.

Me, too. 7-inch (?) 5-Star. After that, a 6-inch utility (Wusthof) and a Dexter cleaver. Those cover the 80 part of the 80/20 rule.

[Fat Guy]

I've actually been thinking of picking up a Wusthof 7-inch santuko from the all-metal line (Culinar). Even though in the past I've not loved the santuko shape, I'm thinking I should get used to it given how many pros love these knives. Is there any reason why a Henckels santuko would be preferable?

Wusthof santukos:

By the way is it santuko or santoku?

[Dave the Cook]

None that I know of, except price, but you seem to be willing to pay for what you want. In fact, based on this discussion, I'm planning to look at the same thing.

Probably the main reason I like Henckel is the 5-Star handle. It seems to be made for the way I hold a knife.

As for the spelling, since it is not a word of English origin, there is no right answer, only a commonly accepted form, which is santOkU.

FYI, I believe they also have a non-Granton edge version.

[Fat Guy]

The Five Star handles are nice. I like the Culinar handles for the same reason -- they feel great in the hand. I have some reluctance about the all-metal design, but I figure I may as well have one knife like that so I can make a long-term judgment.

I haven't seen one without the Kullenschliff edge. Is there a disadvantage to that kind of edge? I guess it promotes nice thin even cutting but reduces the knife's utility as an all-purpose tool?

[Nick]

.. I've got an old Gibson Melody Maker. It's a plain, gritty-looking thing (Les Paul shape, but no bindings; dark, dark cherry finish; one double humbucker and one lipstick pickup), perfect for my trashy playing.

An old Melody Maker is one fine guitar. I played one once a long time ago. Offered to buy it, but it wasn't for sale.

[Suzanne F]

Hi, my name is Suzanne and I'm a knife addict.

I am constantly searching for the knife that is perfect for me. I've got F.Dick from school (which I HATE); Sabatier carbon steel and stainless from 30 years ago; Wusthof; Henkels; Global; Forschner; Sanelli (a granton-edge slicer that's dynamite!); Granton (a granton-edge slicer that is not all that great); Fürie; KitchenAid; and Messermeister. Which is "best?" It depends! -- on what I need to do with it. I love my 10-inch Messermeister: it's heavy, it rocks (literally; on its edge), and because the bolster is short I can sharpen it all the way from the tip to the heel. And it has an edge similar to Global. But for work other than chopping, the others all have advantages (and disadvantages). Globals have a great edge, but they are the most uncomfortable for me to hold. Fürie is solid and sanitary, but loses its edge quickly. And so on.

In other words, what's best is what works best for you and is most comfortable for you to use.

Fat Guy: a few years ago there was a piece in the PCD catalogue about which is correct. Unfortunately, I don't remember what they said. If I still have it somewhere, I'll post what they said.

[Dave the Cook]

I haven't seen one without the Kullenschliff edge. Is there a disadvantage to that kind of edge? I guess it promotes nice thin even cutting but reduces the knife's utility as an all-purpose tool?

Maybe I'm wrong, and it's only in the Grand Prix line. My understanding is that the Kullenschliff edge is mainly for sushi. I don't do that sort of stuff, and I keep a good edge on my knives, so I don't miss it.

On the other hand, I've never used a knife with one, except the good old long slicer (used on innumerable prime ribs in my restaurant days) so maybe I don't know what I'm missing.

Suzanne: I'd been wondering about Messermeisters. I guess they're worth a look?

An old Melody Maker is one fine guitar. I played one once a long time ago. Offered to buy it, but it wasn't for sale.

Nickn--believe it or not, I found it at a yard sale in Clayton, Georgia. Our truck had thrown its drive shaft, and while we were waiting for help, we wandered into town, and there it was.

[ngatti]

None that I know of, except price, but you seem to be willing to pay for what you want. In fact, based on this discussion, I'm planning to look at the same thing.

Probably the main reason I like Henckel is the 5-Star handle. It seems to be made for the way I hold a knife.

As for the spelling, since it is not a word of English origin, there is no right answer, only a commonly accepted form, which is santOkU.

FYI, I believe they also have a non-Granton edge version.

Dave, what would be the advantage of the Granton edge. Ive never used one except on a salmon slicer.

Off topic,

Nickn, I'm thinking of picking up a Tele for myself. Would the Squier work for me or should I go for the real deal? I'm strictly a hacker acoustic type. Take the Taylor Big Baby out for a nightly stroll sort of thing.

Nick

[Nick]

Nickn--believe it or not, I found it at a yard sale in Clayton, Georgia. Our truck had thrown its drive shaft, and while we were waiting for help, we wandered into town, and there it was.

That's the way to break down. I broke down once in Georgia (front universal that had been going to hell starting in Daytona.) Didn't have the tools and didn't want to get it worked on in Florida. Got over the Georgia line on 95 and turned off at the first decent exit and stopped at the place I thought might be right. Those folks treated me more than decent. I didn't have much money to get back to Maine and they put it on a lift, dropped the driveshaft, put in a new front universal, took the rear one apart and greased it, put it all together and got me back on the road for $39. Sure was happy.

But, I didn't end up with a Melody Maker. That's a breakdown worth having.

[Jinmyo]

My Wusthof Grand Prix santoku doesn't have the Kullenschliff edge. Nice knife.

[ngatti]

My Wusthof Grand Prix santoku doesn't have the Kullenschliff edge. Nice knife.

So at least we know they are out there. I have to replace the henckel. My knuckles are starting to scrape the cutting board. I guess over the years I've taken a bit off from sharpening and wear.

Nick