DeBragga and Spitler now online

[Fat Guy]

DeBragga and Spitler, wholesale meat purveyor to many of New York City's top restaurants, has just entered the online retail business. I haven't sampled any of the products yet, but DeBragga's reputation is stellar. First person to order, please report back.

http://www.debragga.com/

[Fat Guy]

We recently found ourselves visiting friends down south and we wanted to cook them a nice dinner. The meat supply in Gastonia, NC, not being quite on par with that in New York City, we decided to order steaks from DeBragga.com.

DeBragga's website offers a tremendous variety of steaks, not just in terms of cuts but also in terms of the various other specifications. What we finally settled on was DRY AGED HAND SELECT NEW YORK STRIP STEAKS-12OZ 4PK.

The box of four steaks was US$89.95. With shipping to North Carolina the grand total came to $109.90. If you've ordered from some of the online meat purveyors, you'll find that these prices are quite good for dry-aged steaks, and the shipping is especially gentle. Given that they ship in foam coolers with gel-ice packs, and via FedEx, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're actually losing money on shipping and handling.

What I ordered are not the absolute best steaks you can get from DeBragga. There is also an option for USDA Prime dry aged. A box of four of the same size steaks (12 oz. each) would have cost $159.95 plus shipping had I ordered prime. In addition, 16 oz. strips are available. I find that a 12-ounce steak is quite enough. I don't know if the 16 oz. strips are cut thicker than the 12 oz. or if they're just butchered from the larger end of the short loin.

Though it is not specified, I assume the less expensive dry-aged steaks I got were USDA Choice and very high Choice at that. In addition, though it is not mentioned on the website, the actual labels on the individual vacuum pouches that the steaks come in say that it's Certified Angus Beef.

This is what the steaks look like ready to grill, after being rubbed with salt, pepper and olive oil:

You can see that the marbling is excellent, much better than what I normally associate with anything less than USDA Prime. Here are the steaks after being grilled to medium rare:

I was very impressed with these steaks. They had the mineral flavor of good dry-aged beef and they were tender yet firm (the best dry-aged steaks juxtapose those two seemingly contradictory attributes to reach something like the texture of a stick of cold butter). I thought they were better than what you get at all but the absolute best steakhouses. In other words, most cities don't have a steakhouse serving steaks this good, and cities like New York have a few such places but the prices are going to be quite high compared to the approximately $27 per steak you're paying with DeBragga.com.

By way of comparison, I've had the steaks from Lobel's. The same size and cut would cost $156.98 plus shipping from Lobel's (that would be for Prime, the only choice with Lobel's). The Lobel's Prime steaks are slightly better than the DeBragga non-Prime, but not by a whole lot. So I think this is a situation where there are diminishing returns to going with the next level up of meat.

Were I to try to improve the DeBragga steaks I got I'd dry age them longer and cut them thicker. The former would give a bit more of the flavor I look for in a dry-aged steak and the latter would probably not be possible. The geometry of cutting steaks means there's a limit to how thick you can cut a 12-ounce strip. And of course the steaks aren't thin -- you can see the photos -- but I like them even thicker!

All in all, a very positive first experience with DeBragga.com.

[docsconz]

How long were the steaks aged?

[Fat Guy]

Beats me.

[docsconz]

Beats me.

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Based on the photo, the meat looks wonderful, but does not look as if it had been aged all that long, which strikes me as likely given the lack of a specific indication of age.

[Fat Guy]

Based on flavor I concluded the same thing, however I should have the actual answer soon.

[Fat Guy]

This just in from George Faison, one of the owners of DeBragga.com:

We are aging approx 28 days. Lately it has been over 30. We tag all our meat the day it goes on the shelf. Please pass this along to everyone at eGullet, and I'll try to follow the continuing conversation, and weigh in whenever possible!

[docsconz]

This just in from George Faison, one of the owners of DeBragga.com:

We are aging approx 28 days. Lately it has been over 30. We tag all our meat the day it goes on the shelf. Please pass this along to everyone at eGullet, and I'll try to follow the continuing conversation, and weigh in whenever possible!

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I'm surprised they don't mention it more explicitly.

[Fat Guy]

From my perspective as a food geek, there's more information I'd like to see on the DeBragga website. As I mentioned above, I didn't even learn that the meat I bought was Certified Angus Beef until after it arrived. To me, not listing that information online is underselling the product. Of course we could debate whether the CAB program means anything, but still it's a selling point for a lot of people. The amount of aging would also have been nice to know about, though I'm actually surprised to learn that it was aged 28+ days. I suppose there's only so much I'm able to divine from tasting -- I'd have guessed less.

[tim]

From my perspective as a food geek, there's more information I'd like to see on the DeBragga website. As I mentioned above, I didn't even learn that the meat I bought was Certified Angus Beef until after it arrived. To me, not listing that information online is underselling the product. Of course we could debate whether the CAB program means anything, but still it's a selling point for a lot of people. The amount of aging would also have been nice to know about, though I'm actually surprised to learn that it was aged 28+ days. I suppose there's only so much I'm able to divine from tasting -- I'd have guessed less.

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Steve,

It appears that they are aging the whole strip for 28 days before cutting into 12 ounce portions.. That would explain the color.

The "Certified Angus Beef Brand" has their own quality specifications using murky marketing jargon. Strip steaks currently cost between $9 per pound on sale to $12 per pound. I don't mind aging at home for this price.

We have two local source for the "CAB" products. One always has well marbled steaks and the other always has poorly marbled steaks. That confuses me.

Tim

[Octaveman]

This is an honest question. How can spending $30/pound or $20 each for New York strip be justified?

I love steak as much as the next guy but looking at it in terms of cost I have a real hard time pulling the trigger. The steaks look great and I'm sure they are very good but sheesh, that's a lot of money. This question is not directed at DeBragga either as it applies to any retailer.

I don't go to Morton's or Ruth Chris or any of the other high-end steak joints because I always leave dissapointed and my wallet is a lot lighter than it was before walking in the door. I get my meat from Costco which I feel is pretty good most of the time. But given the cost differences I'm left wondering if the 500% increase in price to buy at Debragga, etc. is worth it. Of course, I'll have no problem spending $100 for my wife and I to eat out for sushi so maybe it comes down to perspective.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Bob

[scubadoo97]

Bob, you mirror my own feelings. It certainly is a matter of personal taste and preference. I rarely go out for steak and I have to be bored with a menu to order the fillet. When we do go out for steak at one of the better known steak places I assume I'm getting better than choice beef since I've read that most all of the prime beef goes to restaurants. We make steaks at home on occasion and I don't find the steaks at the restaurants to be 3 X as good as I make at home so would be hard pressed to buy dry aged prime NY strip at $53/lb + shipping or $42/lb not aged. I look at it as why spend that much when I can go out and get served a steak for around the same price or less and not have to do the dishes. So what do they serve at places like Ruth Chris?

[slkinsey]

Above a certain level, each additional dollar buys an increasingly smaller improvement in quality. This is true of all things. Bob, would you say that a $1,500 custom made Japanese kitchen knife is ten times better than one you can get for $150? Is it three times better than one you can get for $500? 33% better than one you can get for $1,000?

In my experience, there is no substitute for dry aged superprime beef. Whether or not it is worth it will depend on the skill/experience of the cook and the taste/experience of the diner. A $35/lb dry-aged superprime porterhouse that is charcoal-grilled at home is not likely to seem "worth it" -- especially if you don't have much basis of knowing what you're tasting for. Budget is, of course, also a major consideration. This beef is going to cost right around the same amount of money no matter where it is sold, but income and cost-of-living levels vary quite widely. What this means is that $35/lb is not as expensive to someone working and living in New York City as it is to someone working and living in, say, Lubbock. This is among the reasons that most of the superprime beef that stays in America finds its way to NYC.

[Fat Guy]

When we do go out for steak at one of the better known steak places I assume I'm getting better than choice beef since I've read that most all of the prime beef goes to restaurants. 

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It is extremely unlikely that you're getting USDA Prime beef unless the menu specifically says the words USDA Prime. Likewise, very few if any restaurants dry age their beef without saying so prominently. So chances are that if you go to a steakhouse and neither claim is being made in writing you're getting sub-Prime, wet-aged beef.

That beef can be quite expensive. Some of the better-know chain steakhouses -- the premium ones, not Outback -- do not serve Prime and do not dry age. The last such place I went to, however, was charging US$51.50 for a New York Strip that was inferior (both in terms of lack of dry aging and in terms of inferior marbling) to what DeBragga is selling. It was probably a 14-ounce steak, though, and not 12 ounces. Also, of course, the price of a steak at a steakhouse is deceptive. The steaks are essentially the loss leaders, but by the time you put together a meal with $12 potatoes and various other add-ons and upsells you're talking about $100+ per person plus tax and tip. Whereas you can do DeBragga steaks, homemade potatoes, salad, bottles of beer, and a nice dessert for more like $35 per person.

[Octaveman]

Above a certain level, each additional dollar buys an increasingly smaller improvement in quality.  This is true of all things.  Bob, would you say that a $1,500 custom made Japanese kitchen knife is ten times better than one you can get for $150?  Is it three times better than one you can get for $500?  33% better than one you can get for $1,000?

Sam, at what point would you say the increase in improvement is negligable?

Before I made the leap to custom knives I asked myself and countless others that very same questions you stated above so I know exactly what you are saying. It took me almost two years of contemplation to make the plunge. And once I did, I will never go back for reasons that are hard to explain. I even had a quasi buyers remorse thing going on but I've come to the realization that I made the right choice with the direction I took. But we're not talking about a product that will be around for the rest of my or my children's lives. We're talking about a consumable item that will last 15 minutes. Then it's gone forever. The memory may linger but that too will dissapear.

Maybe I just need to make the plunge with this too to see for myself what the hubub is about. Maybe I'm not understanding the point of buying meat at these prices because I've never tried it. I understand too the economics of location and budget but my question revolves around the justification. It's a hard one for me to fatham. It's not the money but the idea of spending that much for a steak. I can justify going out and spending $100+ for sushi because to do that at home the cost of everything, not to mention the time involved in preparation, that I would get at the sushi bar would be very lopsided. Making it at home would lose. To make a handful of basic rolls or sashimi would be easy to do at home but to have a feast would be very difficult to do and be reasonable about it all. With a steak, I could go to the store, spend $8-$10/pound for a couple of steaks and be happy. It's easy, it's at my fingertips, it's spontaneous, it's cheap, it serves it's purpose.

This makes me wonder something...if the steaks are that good, do people ever go back to store bought steak or are they destined to paying these prices for the rest of their lives? I do love a tasty steak so maybe I should just try it.

[Fat Guy]

My personal experience has been that I'm somewhat but not completely spoiled by good steaks. That is to say, I can certainly enjoy an inferior steak if it's offered at a friend's house or whatever -- especially since even average supermarket steaks in the US are pretty tasty -- but I almost never cook supermarket-level steaks myself. As a result of having higher standards for steak, I eat less steak. So when I do eat steak I like it to be good, and given the small number of times a year I eat it I don't mind paying premium prices. Of course everybody except a person with infinite money is going to have a point of diminishing returns. What I was suggesting above was that for me the $89 box of steaks is worth the premium over supermarket meat -- it's enough better to justify that to me personally -- whereas I'm not sure I'd personally find the $159.95 box to be worth the extra money. I'm sure it's better, but that's my point of diminishing returns for now.

I'd also note that, to me, it seems more sensible to economize on other cuts of beef. For example you can buy totally average supermarket meat and make excellent hamburgers. You can buy the cheapo braising cuts and they come out pretty darn good. Whereas steak is a much more pure eating experience, so that's a cut where it pays to get better stuff.

There are also questions of palate training and steak cookery experience. It takes some time for some people (like me) to get a good handle on the differences among different steaks (other people grasp it intuitively, it seems). And those differences can be less or more evident depending on cooking method and level of doneness. So it's not necessarily worth it for a person who can't tell the difference and wants a well-done steak anyway.

[Octaveman]

Very good points, thanks. Also, the more I think about it I could easily spend $15 for a rib-eye at the grocery store. Sure it's cheaper per pound but would quantity override quality in this case? For a few more dollars I could get a vastly superior piece of meat albiet smaller. It sure is nice to have a mini-roast on your plate though.

In general do webtailers ship fresh or is the meat frozen? If I was to spend that much I would think it wouldn't be frozen for shipment.

[Fat Guy]

A lot of places ship frozen, however the better places like DeBragga and Lobel's ship refrigerated.

[Octaveman]

Man, I'm almost willing to give it a try. If I do, I'd go with the 16 oz. New Yorks. Maybe when the economic stimulus check arrives. I've been wondering what to buy with it. What would I do with another knife anyway? Thanks for your and Sam's input.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Octaveman (log)

[tim]

Man, I'm almost willing to give it a try.  If I do, I'd go with the 16 oz. New Yorks.  Maybe when the economic stimulus check arrives.  I've been wondering what to buy with it.  What would I do with another knife anyway?  Thanks for your and Sam's input.

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Bob,

A suggestion. Buy an extra thick, nicely marbled Certified Angus Beef strip steak for about $12 per pound. This is just like the steaks that DeBragga sells for $32 per pound.

You may then dry age the steak at home for two weeks or more, just like DeBragga. You will probably lose about 10% of the weight, raising your cost to about $13.50 per pound.

Trim off the black waste and carefully sear your steak; dry aging makes them easy to over-sear and over-cook.

Now, you will know if you have a taste for an expensive steak at a fraction of the cost.

Or, you could buy one of those grade 10 Kobe steaks....

Tim

[Fat Guy]

In my limited experience, home refrigerator aging of individual steaks does help lower the moisture content but is not truly competitive with professional aging of whole subprimals. I'd also estimate that for any significant period of aging, like 21+ days (which is difficult to do under home-refrigerator conditions with an individual steak because the steak lacks the fat-layer protection of a whole short loin and, moreover, has already been wet-aged for some time), the loss will be a lot more than 10% when you combine the moisture loss with the trimming loss. There are also some food-safety considerations when home aging beef, not that I'm bothered by them but some people might be. And, I'd hesitate to say that you can walk into any old supermarket and get Certified Angus Beef that's as well marbled as what DeBragga is selling.

[paulraphael]

And, I'd hesitate to say that you can walk into any old supermarket and get Certified Angus Beef that's as well marbled as what DeBragga is selling.

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I'd agree with this without ever having tried DeBragga in particular. I've tried all kinds of tomfoolery trying to get supermarket steaks to taste great. I've given up. If I can't get to a butcher that sells prime dry aged beef, I make something besides steak. Just not worth it to me otherwise. Supermarket beef is for stews and braises. This includes the "certified angus" choice beef (whatever that might mean) that they at d'agostino's in nyc.

[Tim Dolan]

Man, I'm almost willing to give it a try.  If I do, I'd go with the 16 oz. New Yorks.  Maybe when the economic stimulus check arrives.  I've been wondering what to buy with it.  What would I do with another knife anyway?  Thanks for your and Sam's input.

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I say you go for it man. You could do a side-by-side tasting and see which one you like better. For some more in-depth research, check out this thread.

[Fat Guy]

Meet George Faison of DeBragga and Spitler.

A while back George and his wife Stephanie (who is DeBragga.com's publicist) invited me in for a tour. It took about a villion years to coordinate but earlier this week I finally made it down there.

George is a partner at DeBragga. The legendary, late Marc Sarrazin's son, Marc John Sarrazin, is the other main guy at DeBragga. George is a more recent addition, having come from D'Artagnan (where he was a founder).

We mostly toured the aging rooms. DeBragga, like most purveyors these days, doesn't take in a lot of whole animals. The economics of the meat business are such that cattle are typically broken down out West, closer to the slaughter. So DeBragga gets mostly boxed subprimals particularly the short loins from which top steakhouses get their most popular steaks: porterhouse, strip and filet.

The aging rooms contain about 20,000 pounds of meat at any given time. The meat is on metal racks as far as the eye can see and there are giant standing fans all over the place blowing air over the meat to help keep it dry and inhibit mold growth. On account of both health codes and the low temperatures, we were given nifty DeBragga butcher's coats and stylish head gear.

My son got a sweatshirt.

But we didn't get to keep any of the gear, except the paper hats.

To me the most interesting sight in the aging rooms was a set of racks that had the same cut and quality of meat but were dated over the course of a month of aging, so it was possible to see a time-lapse image of aging beef.

Here's what the meat looks like before any dry aging. This is dated 21 July, the day we were there.

This rack was dated 18 July, so just a few days of aging here.

These are the short loins that went up on 14 July, so they had been aged about a week.

This rack had been filled on 9 July, so the meat on it had been aged about 2 weeks.

And this was the oldest rack, dated 2 July, which meant the meat had been aged about 3 weeks.

George also showed us how the weights of the aged short loins compared to the originally recorded fresh weights.

That particular short loin had, after just a couple of weeks, gone from about 21 to about 18 pounds. That's just from the moisture loss. On top of that, all the exterior material and then some needs to be cut away by the butchers (George estimated as much as 50% butchering loss). So meat that starts out at $10 a pound (DeBragga's cost) can easily wind up closer to $25 a pound (restaurant's wholesale cost).

For those who are new to dry aging, a quick refresher course: most supermarket beef is "wet aged." This means it's vacuum packed in plastic and allowed to sit for a while under refrigeration. During this time the meat becomes more tender. In dry aging, the meat is aged out in the open in a controlled environment. So there's a lot of moisture loss (there's no loss in wet aging) and the exterior gets dried out and has to be cut away (again not an issue in wet aging). The reward of dry aging, however, is that in addition to tenderness (which you get from wet aging anyway) you get concentration and excellent development of flavor (that doesn't happen with wet aging).

I knew all this but had never actually touched a dry aged whole subprimal, and when I did I was surprised at how hard and leathery the surface was. George explained that this leathery surface helps protect the meat inside, which remains red and vibrant.

I want this contraption in my home.

Here's a steak all aged, butchered, packed and ready to go.

George was kind enough to send us away with a sample of Japanese Wagyu steak. I decided to bring the steak with us to lunch at Beacon and ask Waldy Malouf to prepare it as an hors d'oeuvre -- my first-ever BYO meat experience.

Waldy seasoned the steak and threw it on the grill for just a couple of minutes. He then sliced it and plated it up in several small portions.

The Wagyu was pretty fabulous, though given its street price (I think this was about a $100 steak) and preternatural fattiness (it's more like foie gras than steak) I think I'm happiest with normal American dry-aged beef at the Prime or high-Choice level.

All in all I was tremendously impressed with the DeBragga operation. What I like in particular, from the standpoint of the retail consumer, is that if you place a .com order you're getting meat from the same pool as the better restaurants in New York City. While there are some special set-asides for restaurants like Craftsteak, the general inventory is not segregated into restaurant and retail.

Here's some meat destined for Craftsteak, a major DeBragga client:

[nyrestaurantfoodie]

That meat looks incredible! I never thought I could get meat that good at home. Thanks for doing this research...it's extremely helpful!