SUGGESTIONS FOR PARIS DINNERS

[JJS]

Despite my best plans and the efforts of my concierge. My attempts to get in to Guy Savoy for early December have come to nought. Pierre Gagnaire might still happen, but I am looking for alternative suggestions for my two dinners. Ideally I would like to try somewhere new, which means Ledoyen, Michel Rostang, Laurent, the Bristol, and Pre Catalan are ruled out. The Grand Vefour is not open on Friday or Saturday which further reduces my choices. What I would prefer is places where the seasonal choice is strong - such as Guy Savoy where I would go back if I could - so I can indulge in a good choice of game and black and white truffle dishes. At the moment I am thinking about Carre des Feuillants and Alain Ducasse, and L'Ambroisie (although this also only operates a one month booking policy and I want to have some guaranteed back-ups in case this and Pierre Gagnaire also fall through) although I am also considering Pre Catalan as I have only been there once and it is open on Saturdays. Really looking for the best alternatives and would appreciate any advice. I have heard positive things about Le Meurice and some people seem not keen on Pre Catalan. All suggestions very very gratefully recieved.

[pirate]

Lasserre recently changed chefs and the food is somewhat more contemporary as of the last time I ate there in April. Decor frozen in time.

[JJS]

Les Ambassadeurs and Jamin are also options. So opinions on those establishments would also be greatly appreciated.

[cabrales]

My attempts to get in to Guy Savoy for early December have come to nought.

JJS -- That's somewhat surprising with respect to Guy Savoy, given the lead time. Were you flexible with different dates and times?

[JJS]

Cabrales

Yes, I was, well I was as flexible as I could be. I gave them a choice of six different dates and was told they were fully booked on each occassion. Unfortunately Lunch was not an option for me on most of these dates, but I was very surprised at the lack of a space for any of the dinners. My concierge got me to the top of the waiting list and says he thinks my chances are high, but I do not like to leave these things too much to chance. Its particularly dissapointing as last year I went twice to Guy Savoy and got in at much less notice. I think his elevation to three stars has shifted the game a little - his phone number is taking on an increasingly 'French Laundry' hue with nearly the whole menu recited to you and its consistently engaged. If anything this shows the power of Michelin. I would be very interested to hear your opinion on the relative merits of the Meurice.

[cabrales]

JJS -- Below is a description of a lunch at Le Meurice. I wasn't particularly enthusiastic about it, although I was undergoing a somewhat unusual period with respect to dining fatigue at the time.

http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?s=...6512&hl=meurice

Have you eaten at L'Astrance? What days are you seeking (and what times you be willing to accept)? I can call and speak French to see if that might help. Consider PM'ing me your last name, if that is not already disclosed on the board.

[hollywood]

I've been told that you can sometimes break into hard to reserve places thru the US Embassy's intervention. You might give them a try.

[vivin]

JJS

Les Ambassadeurs was a big disappointment when I went there last 2.5 yrs ago. My recent trip to Guy Savoy (in Feb) was disappointing as well. How about L'Arpege ?? We liked it a lot. Although Le Grand Vefour and Ducasse topped our experiences.

vivin

[cabrales]

I strongly agree with vivin's recommendation of L'Arpege.

Les Ambassadeurs was not bad for lunch when I went there. It can be expensive for a two-star if certain a la carte items are chosen, but there are prix fixe lunches. I would go there over Meurice.

[Bux]

I don't know whether to be amazed at what concierges can do, or what they can't do. I suppose some are better than others, but it appears that either each concierge has different contacts, or that some restaurants are just unapproachable. I suppose the two things one might ask of a concierge is to get a last minute table at a top spot, or to get at reservation before the list officially opens. Depending on one's connections, it is, or is not, sad that spaces are taken at many restaurants before the restaurant will accept reservations over the phone and that some restaurants keep tables open until late for various reasons. No one ever said life was fair, I guess.

I have eaten at Ducasse and at Carre des Feuilliants. Actually I have had both a lunch and a dinner at Carre des Feuillants and a dinner at Ducasse at the Plaza Athene. Years separated those meals and a comparison would be unfair. Ducasse was the more recent meal and it was exquisite, though perhaps coldly exquisite in some ways. I think I posted a report on that meal on eGullet. In terms of seasonal foods, my wife started with a half order of Italian white truffles. I had a meal that revolved around game--Gibiers à plumes de Sologne en chaude et froide and Chevreuil en noisette, réduction d'une poivrade relevée de genièvre. The medalions of game deer were almost upstaged by the visual splendor of the still life of roots and fruits, and all sort of vegetable, fruit and fungus glowing in autumnal tones under a glaze. It may have been the most beautiful plate of food I've had, and the taste surpassed it's visual beauty. I don't think I've ever had a melage of vegetable stuff taste so good. Of course the sauce, a reduction of meat juices, may have rendered it something other than a vegetarian dish.

Carre des Feuillants was visited sometime back. It is, but comparison to Ducasse at the Plaza Athenee, a more relaxed place and for me a more joyous experience in that sense. I don't think the food quite hit that same level. My more recent meal there was at lunch and out of curiosity we had the inexpensive lunch prix fixe. It was good, but not exciting. On a previous dinner visit, we had the most expensive seasonal tasting menu. this was quite a ways back--early mid nineties, as I recall--and we found it quite exciting. A "simple" dish of truffles, foie gras and jerusalem artichokes was a meal stopper for us, but actually just one of many courses. At the time I had never had anything like that dish. One of the conclusions I drew from those two meals is that going to a famous and expensive restaurant at lunch and ordering the special inexpensive prix fixe meal would allow one to experience the decor and the service, but might not offer a real clue as to the chef's talents. I use expensive as a catch all for multistarred restaurants. As I recall, we found that tasting menu to be a bargain compared with what the price brought in other restaurants. That was a while back however and although I would return with great expectations, I can't offer a first hand recent account. Dutournier specializes in southwestern cooking. Think duck, goose, foie gras, etc. He also had a nice selection of southwestern wines at reasonable prices. This was true of the more recent visit at lunch, and I recall some nice dessert wines by the glass. When I say that meal wasn't exciting, I don't mean it was dull--just not up to the dinner. Dutournier also seems to be a cook and not a publicity hound and for that I give him credit, although he often seems to get ignored for that same reason.

[JJS]

Going to try for Ducasse and L'Arpege. Les Ambassadeurs does not appeal now and Carre des Feuilliante is not quite what I am looking for. Thanks for all the help. Will be sure to post on my experiences wherever I end up. I think Guy Savoy will now be very hard to book, so anyone thinking of going there should allow at least two and a half months.

[JJS]

Just one last point or query: that irritating thing called money. Ducasse and L'Arpege seem to be two of the most expensive restaurants in Paris and I always like to have an outside estimate for the cost of the meal - given that I am taking out two other people. Allowing for a couple bottles of wine maybe 120-140 Euros each. Do people thinking an estimate of around 1100 Euros sounds about right, given that I expect (knowing myself and the others!) people to want to order luxury items like white and black truffles, game and seafood? If people think it is likely to be more, do they have an idea of how much more? Is there a big difference between Ducasse and L'Arpege?

[David Bizer]

The "menu" at l'Arpege is now at 300 euros. Haven't seen the prices at Ducasse lately.

[Bux]

With a modest bottle of burgundy and two a la carte meals that I would describe as normal (we did not splurge and we didn't order the least expensive items, as far as I recall) our bill came to 500 euros. The Michelin says Ducasse offers prix fixe at 190 and 250 euros this year. My guess is that there's been an increase in price and that you will spend at least 1,000 euros, so your budget figure is close, but if you get carried away with wine or truffles you could certainly exceed that. Unfortunately, in dollars that's more this year than last when we were getting 1.09 euros to the dollar.

[vivin]

The tasting menus at L'Arpege and Ducasse were 300 and 290 Euros respectively. Thereafter, just figure in your budget and desire for what you want to spend on wine.

I think we spent about 1200 Euros at L'Arpege for lunch for 3 people and more at Ducasse because of more expensive wine.

[tony h]

Holy shit! I'm going to Guy Savoy on Saturday. I didn't think ti was going to be that expensive. I'll let you know how I got on.

gulp

[vivin]

Guy Savoy doubled their prices for the tasting menu over two years. That was the most expensive of our meals the last time I went. One piece of advice - don't let 18 year old servers tell you what wine to order. I would love to hear how your dinner is. Enjoy.

[cabrales]

BLH -- I vaguely recollect that the truffle menu (not yet the season for this) at Guy Savoy was under 300 euros. There were other menus -- Menu Prestige and the Festin Menu -- that were considerably less than that. I can't be sure, though.

[pirate]

Guy Savoy is generous about serving half portions at half price so it's not hard to compose a "tasting" menu to your own specifications.

[Bux]

The most expensive tasting menu is usually not the only option. Sometimes it's the best value, sometimes it's not and quite often, I'll never find out.

[jscarbor]

and she asked me even though I've never been. So I am here looking for help from you guys.

My SIL is a very smart soon to be completing her residency in anesthesiology. She is very fit, broke off her ass(because of school) likes great food, not a big drinker.

She wants to know where to go for good meals while in Paris. She is interested in doing a very nice place or two as well as some great bistro's that may or may not be off the beaten track.

Can anyone help me help her?

[Busboy]

Lots of help already on eGullety, if you just look under "France" in topics.

MemberJohn Whiting has his own website on Paris bistros, which is both thoroughly researched and compellingly written.

This thread has a number of suggestions and links on the subject of affordable Paris dining.

And I myself am addicted to the Michelin website. Click "restaurants" up top, type the Paris arrondissement that interests you where it says "city, area," like so: Paris 07. Then you can limit the flood of restaurants that will come up by looking under the "search criteria" and clicking one or two options: children's menu, say, or starred restaurants only. I am a huge fan of the "Bib Gourmand" restaurants which offer excellent food at under 38 euros for the three-course menu.

Edited April 12, 2004 by Busboy (log)

[Hectorp]

I'd also recommend Lasserre. My wife and I have been to Lucas Carton, Taillevent and L'Arpege and we both found Lasserre to be a very charming Paris dining experience...

Please don't read between the lines and think that this is faint praise...Lasserre lost their 3rd star years ago...so what!? Somehow, you can sense the lack of 3-star anxiety in the place as a kind of sigh of relief... They can run an elegant and historically significant traditional French Restaurant without all that corrosive striving.

The interior is bathed in golden light, their service is good, the food was really lovely (I'd recommend the Pidgeon Andres Malraux which I would go back for again and their wierd macaroni with foie gras and truffles appetizer).

The room is very interesting and elegant...with little putti painted on the ceiling...the ceiling, by the way is retracted in warm weather and even...once in a while in the fall to reveal the night sky; to refresh the room; and, I suppose, to prove that they can.

Also...reservations are not impossible to get (I tried two months ahead of time with Guy Savoy last time and couldn't get in); the service is not necessarily of the same Wagnerian Ring cycle length as a 3-star (we were out in two hours...with time to spare for a little bar hopping) and the bill was almost 1/2 what it was at Arpege.

In the words of baby bear: it was "just right."

[pirate]

I'd also recommend Lasserre. My wife and I have been to Lucas Carton, Taillevent and L'Arpege and we both found Lasserre to be a very charming Paris dining experience...

Please don't read between the lines and think that this is faint praise...Lasserre lost their 3rd star years ago...so what!? Somehow, you can sense the lack of 3-star anxiety in the place as a kind of sigh of relief... They can run an elegant and historically significant traditional French Restaurant without all that corrosive striving.

The interior is bathed in golden light, their service is good, the food was really lovely (I'd recommend the Pidgeon Andres Malraux which I would go back for again and their wierd macaroni with foie gras and truffles appetizer).

The room is very interesting and elegant...with little putti painted on the ceiling...the ceiling, by the way is retracted in warm weather and even...once in a while in the fall to reveal the night sky; to refresh the room; and, I suppose, to prove that they can.

Also...reservations are not impossible to get (I tried two months ahead of time with Guy Savoy last time and couldn't get in); the service is not necessarily of the same Wagnerian Ring cycle length as a 3-star (we were out in two hours...with time to spare for a little bar hopping) and the bill was almost 1/2 what it was at Arpege.

In the words of baby bear: it was "just right."

←

I just glanced through this thread and discovered my post 3 years ago on Lasserre. I'm pleased that you enjoyed it and that they are maintaining their tradition.

[Jean Blanchard]

I'm planning a trip to Paris and the couple we are travelling with read a favorable article about this restaurant. I can't find anything about it here and I was wondering if anyone has an opinion.

Jean