Legumes, Rice and Protein

[Stone]

I often hear that tofu is high in protein and that vegetarians should eat lots of tofu and other legumes to get their protein. I often hear this advice without telling people that they must eat rice with the tofu or legumes.

My understanding is that the body needs to take in a certain number of amino acids (22 is my recollection from college biology) in order to synthesize all the propteins our body uses. Only animal products can offer complete protein. Tofu/legumes eaten without rice is incomplete.

Am I wrong? Also, if I eat tofu, do I get, say, 75% of the necessary aminos, or do I just get bits and pieces, but nothing terrible useful as protein?

Finally, should the rice and legume be eaten at the same meal? Within the same day?

[Adam Balic]

You is right. Most plants proteins are not complete (ie. Supply all human essential amino acids) and you have to mix and match. However, tofu and other soy products are the exception to the rule and offer the complete range of amino acids.

However, this isn't nutrition. Peanut butter and whole wheat toast offer the full range of amino acids to survive on - until you die of scurvy or some other disease associated with a poor diet that is.

[ajay]

Wait a minute. It's been a while since I took molecular biology, but it has always been my understanding that the body does not simply recycle the amino acids found in the polypeptides (proteins) that are ingested. Rather, the body breaks down those amino acids and synthesizes the ones that it needs.

It may be the case that certain elements needed to synthesize specific amnio acids, like the sulphur necesarry to produce cystene (which enables the formation of the disulfide bond) can only be found in animal products, but I'm fairly certain that vitamin supplements would be an adequate replacement.

As to this notion of ingesting rice with tofu, I'm confused. TO the best of my knowledge, rice is a starch, or collection of sugars--with white rice being less complex than brown. I fail to see how ingesting carbohydrates (consisting of carbon oxygen and hydrogen) that will be metabolized for energy is a prerequisite to cerain protein formation. I suppose one could argue that protein or amino acid synthesis requires energy, but that energy can be found from protien or fat metabolisim.

Perhaps members with a more thorough background in molecular biology, and or nutrition can help establish the link between these carbohydrates and amino acid synthesis, but as I far as I know, there is none.

[Fat Guy]

There's about 7 grams of protein in 100 grams of rice. All grains I know of have some protein. I don't know what the specific protein breakdown is, but it's in there.

[Adam Balic]

Humans, unlike some other mammals cannot synthesis all amino acids. These have to come ready made in the diet, mostly from proteins which are broken down to peptides then to amino acids.

Rice has protein, but most of this is in the bits that are taken off in during the production of white rice. You can survive on rice (many do) and soy, just not very well and you would have to eat huge amounts of white rice to get enough proteins. Much like the Irish poor were eating hugh amounts of potato pre-blight. Large amount of carbohydrate, small amount of protein.

[Stone]

But do I understand correctly that a person can get its full protein allotment from soy? (And, of course, getting carbs/fats/vitamins come from other sources.)

[Fat Guy]

I believe there are 8 essential amino acids, all of which are present in soy.

[Suvir Saran]

And what about mixing beans and lentils and rice? How would that change this story?

Or does it not matter?

[Dave the Cook]

And what about mixing beans and lentils and rice?

I'm pretty sure "beans" and "lentils" are close to nutritionally equivalent. Adding the rice to either (or both) would probably provide the complete array of necessary protein.

[Suvir Saran]

Thanks!

[Suvir Saran]

I have been told by Doctors and friends who practice nutrition and food studies that vegetarians that can balance a healthy diet by including proteins from dairy and poultry (eggs) and eat a good mix of rice and legumes have much better health in general and also lesser incidence of cancer through years of research... Can that be true?

[tommy]

well sh*t. you ask for smug scientific bastards and they come a runnin'!

[Suvir Saran]

well sh*t.  you ask for smug scientific bastards and they come a runnin'!

Are you a scientist by trade Tommy?

[tommy]

Are you a scientist by trade Tommy?

no suvir. however, i'm working towards my degree in Smuggery. with a concentration in Snobbery.

[Dave the Cook]

...have much better health in general and also lesser incidence of cancer through years of research...

Better than whom?

[tommy]

I have been told by Doctors and friends who practice nutrition and food studies that vegetarians that can balance a healthy diet by including proteins from dairy and poultry (eggs) and eat a good mix of rice and legumes have much better health in general and also lesser incidence of cancer through years of research... Can that be true?

this idea is statistically based, which means "who the hell knows." i'd imagine that vegetarians, more than non vegetarians, smoke less. that is enough to explain the stat. it might very well have nothing to do with food, and it's very difficult to prove either way.

[Suvir Saran]

I have been told by Doctors and friends who practice nutrition and food studies that vegetarians that can balance a healthy diet by including proteins from dairy and poultry (eggs) and eat a good mix of rice and legumes have much better health in general and also lesser incidence of cancer through years of research... Can that be true?

this idea is statistically based, which means "who the hell knows." i'd imagine that vegetarians, more than non vegetarians, smoke less. that is enough to explain the stat. it might very well have nothing to do with food, and it's very difficult to prove either way.

and what makes you think that vegetarians would smoke less?

Do you really think that is true?

[Suvir Saran]

Are you a scientist by trade Tommy?

no suvir. however, i'm working towards my degree in Smuggery. with a concentration in Snobbery.

What school are you going to?

An all Ivy education I guess?

[tommy]

and what makes you think that vegetarians would smoke less?

Do you really think that is true?

it's either true or it's not. 2 choices. and if it's true, and that isn't considered when analyzing the cancer stats, then you might as well not be analyzing anything. and if you haven't considered every other factor that affects ones chance of getting cancer (to a reasonable extent) then your study is for shit.

and yes, my guess is that vegetarians are probably more health conscious than the average bear, and smoke less.

[g.johnson]

I have been told by Doctors and friends who practice nutrition and food studies that vegetarians that can balance a healthy diet by including proteins from dairy and poultry (eggs) and eat a good mix of rice and legumes have much better health in general and also lesser incidence of cancer through years of research... Can that be true?

It's because they become bored to death before the cancer gets them.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

Harold McGee goes into the legumes/rice/protein thing at some length. I can't say I read it though.

[Suvir Saran]

and yes, my guess is that vegetarians are probably more health conscious than the average bear, and smoke less.

Is smoking hemp considered smoking?

Many of those vegans and vegetarians love smoking weed.

[Wilfrid]

it's either true or it's not.  2 choices.  and if it's true, and that isn't considered when analyzing the cancer stats, then you might as well not be analyzing anything.  and if you haven't considered every other factor that affects ones chance of getting cancer (to a reasonable extent) then your study is for shit.

The scientists set aside their smugness long enough to spot that, Tommy. It is unthinkable that a study of the effect of diet on cancer risk would not control for smoking. No need to lose sleep.

The literature on risk factors for cancer is vast. Many studies have reported beneficial effects of a range of diets, including diets high in green vegetables and fruit and low in fat. There are some studies which are anomalous, and report a raised cancer risk for such diets. Other studies suggest that your ethnicity rather than your diet (the two often going together) may be a factor.

It's a whole lot of epidemiology, and who knows?

[tommy]

and yes, my guess is that vegetarians are probably more health conscious than the average bear, and smoke less.

Is smoking hemp considered smoking?

Many of those vegans and vegetarians love smoking weed.

smoking is just an example. any factor that contributes to cancer could be substituted.

of course, if you want to, we can guess about the relative affects of smoking cigs vs smoking dope. my guess is dope is the lesser offender, as you wouldn't smoke 20 or 30 joints a day. well, not unless it's a really good day.

[Wilfrid]

Joints don't have filters, Tommy, and they are often much larger than cigarettes, if your moving in the right circles.

Not saying you're wrong, just pointing out the complicashuns.