Stock......

[The Artful Dodger]

I have read an earlier post on how to make quality stock, but are there any acceptable quick alternatives?

Are ANY of the instant stock cubes/granules rising above execrable?

I am led to believe that Ms Delia herself recommends 'Marigold Swiss Bouillon', an instant vegetable stock.

Thanks for any input, will be appreciated.

[jaybee]

Living in NYC, I have access to freshly made fish, beef and chicken stock at Fairway, Citarella or Jake's Fish Store. Those are my shortcuts. Williams Sonoma sell bottles stocks that claim to be good quality. They are expensive, but for a pantry item to use in case of an emergency, it might pay to have a few on hand. I have also used College Inn low salt broth augmented with some quick chicken stock in a pinch too. But you need to get low salt.

[Adam Balic]

Artful - many of the supermarkets in the UK seem to sell liquid stock, have you tried them? My local butcher sells jelled stocks of beef or game, maybe they do in your area as well.

[Marlene]

We have a specialty grocer here who sells items not usually available in supermarkets and they make their own stocks to sell as well. I'll use one of thiers in a pinch, when I don't have time, especially for French Onion Soup.

[AdamLawrence]

I usually have a number of different Joubere stocks in the freezer - my local Waitrose carries pretty much the full range. They are good for deglazing purposes, but they'd be very expensive indeed if you wanted large quantities.

Marigold is OK but I wouldn't use it for anything that needed really good stock. I don't think it would make great risotto, for example.

Adam

[Wilfrid]

I use commercially made demi-glaces, which are essentially veal stocks concentrated into a jelly or thick paste. A fancy butcher in the UK may well have some. They look expensive, but they go a long way. Whether you mix them with water or just add them to a sauce really depends on what you are cooking.

[Stone]

I believe Cooks Illustrated did a testing of commercial stocks and concluded that Swansons canned chicken broth was pretty good. I don't know if you get that in Britain. My subsription lapsed, so I can't check the site for the review.

[Fat Guy]

There have just recently (in the past 4-5 years) emerged a few brands of stock that are packaged in those treated paper boxes, in the manner of Parmalat UHT milk. As with most things packaged that way, it tends to taste better than its canned equivalent. One brand is Kitchen Basics, and there's another brand they sell at Stew Leonard's the name of which I can't remember.

These are the best wide-distribution stock-substitute products I know of.

http://www.kitchenbasics.net/

In addition, remember that stock freezes brilliantly, so if you simply commit to making it once every six months or so, you can reduce and freeze enough of it such that you'll always have some on hand.

[Miss J]

I've used the Joubere stocks, but as Adam says they're really expensive if you need them in quantity. I've also used the Marigold veggie powder, but you need to be really careful with it in combination with other salty ingredients (ie parmesan, soy sauce). If you need stock for a dish that relies on other salty components to lend specific flavours, you're best off using the real deal.

On the "making lots every six months" side of things, you can usually pick up very cheap boiler chickens from Chinese or halal butchers. When I made a basic Chinese stock a couple weeks ago, I used a boiler chicken (around £1.50) and some pork bones (£0.50) from a butcher in Chinatown. I froze it in bags of different sizes (100ml, 250ml, 500ml) and filled a couple of ice cube trays as well - handy, and pretty gentle on the wallet.

Edit: just remembered another option - you can get pricey veal and fish stocks in jars in the Sainsburys gourmet selection (or whatever the posh aisle's called). So if you're really in a fix and are feeling flush, that's a possibility too.

[Wilfrid]

I will try making it this year, I promise. About the time I make the confit for the winter.

[Fat Guy]

By the way the salt is the key thing. If you're shopping for stock products, buy the ones with the least salt possible. When I make my own stock, it never sees any salt until it's actually being used in a dish. This is essential strategy for effective reductions, deglazing sauces, etc., because if it tastes properly salted in its normal diluted state it will be inedible when reduced into a sauce. So the most versatile stock is the one with little or no salt.

[Jinmyo]

No. 1 said both of the things I had to say. So I've got nothing to say except to say that I've nothing to say.

[Dave the Cook]

I agree low salt is essential for canned shortcuts. But I'm surprised that you don't use any salt when making your own.

Salt helps break down the proteins in your stockpot ingredients, and facilitates thorough extraction of flavor. (I'm beginning to sound like a smug scientific bastard--hey, maybe I've found a signature). I would consider some (not necessarily enough to break the taste threshhold) salt essential.

And what's this about making stock every six months? Maybe beef or veal stock, but I find myself making chicken stock (in gallon batches) about every eight weeks. Am I blowing the curve?

Dave

[Fat Guy]

Dave, I've never heard it suggested that salt be added to the base stock. Intuitively, it seems that heat and time should be sufficient to break down whatever needs breaking down, though I don't know much about the chemistry involved.

In terms of how much to make and how often to make it, it depends on how much you're going to use!

[The Artful Dodger]

Back again.... actually had to do some work!

To be honest, some of my stock making attempts have been disasters, and having read the earlier thread I now know why. I WAS that bloke that could produce grey stock, just as Fat Guy described in the aforementioned thread! To be absolutely honest, and invite the utter contempt of all who have been willing to contribute, I didn't realise the importance of simmer, simmer, simmer. I boiled, boiled, boiled!!! with shocking, and I DO mean shocking results.

Tell you what, I'll have a go this weekend, bin lids permitting, and report back; any do's and (see above) imortant dont's?

[Bux]

I think I mentioned this in the other thread, or some other thread, but you can go a long way towards restoring clarity and color with even a sloppy attempt at clarifying your stock. I pretty much do it as Julia Child suggested in Volume 1. You should keep it at a smile, that is a very low simmer, but if it turns cloudy, all is not lost.

Dave the Cook, I assume that's cook with a capital "C" and that you're a pro. That would explain the need to make stock more often. Fat Guy is the Emma Peel of cooks. That is to say a talented amateur--there is no physical resemblance to Diana Rigg. Anyone else old enough to have been an Avenger's fan?

[Dave the Cook]

I agree that simmer, simmer, simmer will do the job--eventually. But if I can make stock in less time, I'm more likely to make it often.

Lately I've been working with the recipe from the Cook's Illustrated book The Best Recipe. If I remember correctly, it calls for about three pounds of chicken legs and backs hacked in pieces, one onion, one teaspoon of salt and two quarts of water. The result is a great stock--balanced flavor with a good gelatinous texture. It takes a little over an hour, hacking to straining. I'm getting excellent chicken stock in just a little more time than it takes to make a fumet. It has also made me notice how little all the other things we dump into the stock pot really matter. I don't miss them, and like salt, I can always add it later. The important thing is to get the essence of the meat.

I'm pretty sure the salt is speeding things up (especially the gelatin extraction), for the same reason that salting a steak will promote crust formation by bringing water-soluble proteins to the surface of the meat. It's not a Maillard reaction, but it must be related.

And no, Bux, I'm not a pro, though I was about three careers ago. The name was caused by a sudden loss of imagination when I joined the site. I guess I just use a lot of stock. There are worse sins, right?

How does Fat Guy feel about being compared to Emma Peel rather than John Steed? Lovely woman, but perhaps not the best role model, eh?

[maggiethecat]

Bux: Emma Peel was my absolute role model during my teens. I couldn't think of any woman funnier, more glamorous, tougher. I tried to dress like her(minus the leather) and when chosing clothes on my very limited allowance I would ask myself: "What would Emma do?" Still do, come to think of it!

Does remembering The Avengers make us old? Merde!

Stock: His Handsomeness read in one of Pepin's books that Jacques keeps a washed-out milk carton in his freezer. When he does prep all the chicken bones, mush stems etc go in the carton and into the freezer. When it's full he makes stock.

His Handsomesness bought himself a small tin canister and does the same. We make casual stock in the microwave (Barbara Kafka's "Microwave Gourmet") It's fast and fresh tasting, though one sure could'nt read the date on dime through it from a height of two feet, say. But it does clarify well using the usual dodges and we always have the heavenly luxury of a freezer full of serviceable stock.

[Bux]

Bux: Emma Peel was my absolute role model during my teens.  I couldn't think of any woman funnier, more glamorous, tougher.  I tried to dress like her(minus the leather)

Funny, I used to think of Emma minus the leather as well. She did have one outfit in a particular episode that was originally ruled too kinky for American audiences, but I think they later showed in during reruns.

We now revert to our usual PG rating.

I was already married, but my wife thought she was a role model. I think she would have traded me for the Lotus, if not the wardrobe.

On a more topical note, I'm also of the no salt school because I can't tell what will happen when it's reduced and salt is one flavor I don't want to concentrate.

[Stone]

If I remember correctly, it calls for about three pounds of chicken legs and backs hacked in pieces, one onion, one teaspoon of salt and two quarts of water.

Are you sure it's two quarts? Doesn't seem worth the effort. Why not increase the recipe and freeze the extra?

[nightscotsman]

Emma Peel trivia question: when Emma left the show (yes, Ms. Rigg didn't stay for the entire run), what were her only words of advice for her replacement? Anyone?

On topic: Does anyone make stock in a pressure cooker? I've had friends tell me for years how great they are, so I just ordered one. Does it make much difference in stocks other than being faster?

[Wilfrid]

Dammit, I remember the scene where she welcomes Tara King (Linda Thorson), but the dialog escapes me. I do recall what Steed said when introduced to Tara, though.

He very reasonably commented: "Ra boom-di-ay!"

[Dave the Cook]

Are you sure it's two quarts?  Doesn't seem worth the effort.  Why not increase the recipe and freeze the extra?

I was just quoting the recipe as I remembered it, though upon reading it here, I may have specified too much chicken. I do usually triple it (or more, depending on how many carci litter the freezer). I freeze two thirds of it in one-cup containers and give the rest away to needy friends and relatives, who repay me in...empty one-cup Rubbermaid containers, of course.

As for the salt, I understand the reluctance; I am usually of the same school. We can do the math: if you were to reduce two quarts of stock containing one teaspoon of salt by 75%, you'd be talking about 1/2 tsp. per cup of liquid. Hmmm... it does sound a little salty. But, I wouldn't normally reduce a chicken stock that far, and probably not without additional ingredients, and certainly not without tasting it.

Tell you what: I'll do two batches this weekend (I'm out anyway)--one with salt and one without, and report back. The relatives get the rejected batch.

[nightscotsman]

Emma Peel trivia question: when Emma left the show (yes, Ms. Rigg didn't stay for the entire run), what were her only words of advice for her replacement? Anyone?

"Mr. Steed likes his tea stirred counter-clockwise, thank you."

[jaybee]

Emma Peel. wow. wow wow

Leather and long zippers....Be still my heart.