Why does so much service suck?

[san]

after my dinner last night, i was reminded of the why does so much food suck? (it's not that hard) forum from awhile back. we went to one of the most popular and acclaimed restaurants in chicago and ate one of the best meals we've had in several years. the service, however, completely soured our perfectly prepared food and had us leaving disappointed and bewildered at what why service seems to have fallen far behind food in this age of the celebrity chef.

it seems to me that in the past few years an abundance of restaurants with creative, delicious, and beautifully presented food have begun to flourish. they are often decorated with minimal/contemporary furniture and architecture and, more and more, characterized by stand-offish, holier-than thou service. i kept thinking about someone i spoke to once who sold shoes at a very expensive department store who said that if you rolled your eyes at people and acted like they were years behind you in terms of fashion, you'd get them to believe that you knew something they didn't, and that if they wanted to be cool they would have to buy what you told them to... though perhaps not as blatant, the restaurant i went to last night seemed to use this idea as their core philosophy. we waited 45 extra minutes for our 9:30 reservation, and the only acknowledgement was the hostess saying "people are relaxing a little more than normal tonight". the rest of the service (mechanically) went fine until we were finishing up our entrees. i asked the server to box up literally the 1/2 of my friend's steak that she didn't eat and he said no and took our plates. my wife was very angry, and i told her that he had to have been joking. when the bill came after our desserts, i asked if he wrapped up the steak and he said "you were serious?". when i said yes, he took the receipt out of the check presenter that was on our table, crumpled it in his hand, and said "i'll just take the steak off" and walked away. i suspect he may have been frustrated that we weren't drinking, but a) we waited 45 minutes for our reservation- this would have been plenty of time for us to have a few drinks apice next door, and b) my friend was pregnant! as i said this was one of the most acclaimed and busiest restaurants in chicago and though i am sure this was an exaggerated incident, i don't recall seeing one smile the whole time we were there (aside from the hostess who was actually friendly). shouldn't the restaurant that claims to be (or is rated) one of the best in the country at least appreciate its guests, rather than making them feel that they should be honored that they were given a reservation?

i've been to this restaurant twice now and had the same feeling (though much more subtle last time). at the other end of the pendulum, alinea in the 2 times i've been there there is a noticeable effort among the staff to make their guests as happy and comfortable as possible. though their service is totally polished and professional, they keep the mood light and act as though they are with the guest and not above them. same goes for moto, though being chefs their service isn't quite as polished.

am i being over-critical or biased in thinking that service is severely lacking and that food preparation has surged ahead of the FOH?

[Fat Guy]

I'd say food preparation really surged ahead of service in the 1980s.

[Polar Bear]

Many servers don't care about their service at the end of a night they get tired and believe they don't have to put on "the show" that they put on all night. You should have asked for the manager and complained about the professionalism. If they consider them selfs a top tier restaurant they will take great pride in their professionalism.

[Jmahl]

Many servers don't care about their service at the end of a night they get tired and believe they don't have to put on "the show" that they put on all night. You should have asked for the manager and complained about the professionalism. If they consider them selfs a top tier restaurant they will take great pride in their professionalism.

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And yet generally servers do much better than the BH as far as income is concerned. Its a topic that interests me, this discrepancy in total income between the FH and the BH.

Jmahl

[Holly Moore]

Contrary to the subtitle, service is a demanding job. There can be tremendous pressure. A lot can go wrong, some over which servers have no control.

Service sucks because management lets it suck, including tolerating servers that should be discharged, or because the kitchen is so screwed up that servers have no chance of providing good service. FOH v. BOH dates back to the first restaurant. When this is not controlled, the customers suffer.

Also, it is my sense that more kitchen turn-out staff see the kitchen as their career, while more servers are working while at school, for a second income while developing their career, or treading water until finding themselves. If this is the case it makes sense that servers, at least those who are not self actualized, will have less commitment to excellence than the back of house.

Finally, some places, where management joins in on the griping about customers, encourage a server culture where customers are more tolerated than welcomed and looked down upon if not up to the restaurant's sense of hipness,

Edited November 5, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[Ohba]

Contrary to the subtitle, service is a demanding job.  There can be tremendous pressure.  A lot can go wrong, some over which servers have no control.

Cutting to the chase, though, "Are you serious?" is insulting and unprofessional. A reminder, if needed, that even the expectation of a 20 percent tip does little to ensure the good service that any decent restaurant should be able to provide as a matter of course and at no extra cost to the customer.

[Sam Salmon]

.....some places, where management joins in on the griping about customers, encourage a server culture where customers are more tolerated than welcomed and looked down upon if not up to the restaurant's sense of hipness,

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In addition to Holly's insightful post as partially quoted I'd add Management who treat 'the floor' as some remote wilderness that servers are banished to- never venturing forth themselves-as though 'working the house' were below them.

If the place is slammed by a rush management sits back and watches as the place clogs up instead of acting to relieve what needs to be done.

[san]

i think holly moore was totally right on. service is NOT easy, but it should be fun. having done it for 15+ years IMO the busiest times can be the most fun and rewarding- if you are properly prepared. this is where mgmt comes in. 3 of the most important functions of a manager are: being on the floor interacting with people and ascertaining guest satisfaction, leading by example in both aspects of work ethic and attitude, and having systems in place to ensure that staff can succeed mechanically. i think that the latter hasn't suffered too much, but when was the last time a manager visited your table when you went to a restaurant where you didn't know anyone? i would say a manager touches my table maybe 10% of the time (unless i know someone there). i also often notice what i consider to be improper attitudes among both staff and mgmt. basically i am referring to either the appearance of all staff wishing they were elsewhere (my recent dinner), or staff joking with each other and having a great time, but only with each other and not including the guests.

[SundaySous]

I think my favorite bad service experience was at a somewhat upscale place located in Chicago's Water Tower Place. I for get the name because I've never been back. The waitress starts off by telling us her name and then how demanding being in law school. OK we get it your a poor college student.

She went on to remind us about school another two or three times, I think every time she stopped by the table. I had ice tea with lunch and she rolled her eyes and then I had to wait forever to order a beer afterwards.

I'm thinking look your not in school right now so if it's not too inconvenient would mind doing your job.

My favorite server tripped over the stage and later set him self on fire serving another table Cherries Jubilee. I swear it was like being in Faulty towers but great all around person.

[Amyl]

Just the other day I was reading Anthony Bourdain's Maxim column, The Art of The Meal and so much of it applies to your situation.

Saturday nights are the absolute worst.

While I don't completely agree with his opinion on asking for leftovers to be packaged up, I will say from my own experience as a server, you might just ask for a package to be brought out to you and you box up the food. Even in nicer restaurants, if they don't box up at the table, I'm extremely reluctant to let that plate be taken to the back to the kitchen. Sometimes bad things, even if unintentional, happen to food in those situations. Most servers don't take a lot of care in the process. I've never worked in a restaurant that had a good system set up for takeout or boxing up leftovers. If there isn't a utensil on the plate for scraping, half of the food slides out onto the counter, which hasn't been wiped down in 5 hours. Dirty hands pick up the food because you know the server didn't swing by the hand washing station. The server isn't going to have a new plate cooked because you aren't going to know your steak just bounced three times across the counter, onto the floor, or into the trash can. Your mileage may vary, there are considerate servers who would never, etc.

I have a hard time with service issues. It's difficult for me not to be super critical when a server is doing a lousy job because I KNOW exactly what is going on.

Anyway, there might be a hundred reasons why that restaurant might be having service issues. Making it look polished and effortless takes a lot of work, skill and commitment.

[SundaySous]

While I don't completely agree with his opinion on asking for leftovers to be packaged up, I will say from my own experience as a server, you might just ask for a package to be brought out to you and you box up the food.

You bring up an excellent point. Once the food is served you loose control over it. The customer could be perfectly healthy and still carry the flue or something. As a server you bring the leftovers probably back to a prep area most likely where you make the salads at an average restaurant.

If you are at an average restaurant and your server smells faintly of bleach that's a good thing. They care.

Notice at upscale restaurants when you ask to take something home. Does the server take it to be wrapped or does a back waiter or bus boy come by to do it?

I wonder if san's experience was due to the fact that they just fired a back waiter or something and the server forgot he has to make up for that. Maybe the guy had problems at home.

No excuse. One of the things I remember while be trained for waiting tables was leave your personal problems at the door. "We pay you $1.35 an hour, they pay your rent."

[san]

I have a hard time with service issues. It's difficult for me not to be super critical when a server is doing a lousy job because I KNOW exactly what is going on.

lately i am of the opinion that nothing is really the server's fault. any mistakes they make are a result of improper training, supervision, or hiring on the part of management. obviously there are bad servers, but i think in most cases they have not been trained properly and do want to do a good job and please their guests. the miserable ones who just have a bad attitude are certainly at fault but shouldn't have ever been hired in the first place. I suppose any management problems are the fault of the owner or upper mgmt for similar reasons.

I wonder if san's experience was due to the fact that they just fired a back waiter or something and the server forgot he has to make up for that. Maybe the guy had problems at home.

either way, if a manager was working that night s/he never visited our table, and aside from the food, we weren't really happy with any aspect of the dinner, and that should have been evident in our body language. that should absolutely have been recognized by either of our servers (we did have a front and back waiter) or a manager, without us having to say something. the fact that i am a manager as well makes me very critical of mgmt (i am equally critical of myself in this sense, too). the process of seeking out a manager and complaining to them is one that is totally uncomfortable to me, for whatever reason. i'd rather just never go there again and discuss the problem with my staff and friends (and everyone here)....

[divalasvegas]

First of all san mighty decent of you not to name the establishment here. However, don't you think it would be a good idea, especially with your restaurant management background, to contact the restaurant's upper management about your experience? I'm assuming that this dinner was an expensive one and your and your friend's experience was quite atrocious. I don't blame you for not wanting to return, but someone with your background could provide the owners/upper management with a constructive critique about everything that went wrong and also give yourself the well deserved satisfaction of venting your displeasure.

BTW, how much did you tip the server?

[san]

i know it is a definite consensus to contact management to notify them of the problem, but i truly believe that in this case (based on numerous incidents including the dinner i originally posted about, another meal i had had there previously, talking to people who have worked there in the past, and a couple of other random correspondences i've had personally with staff members over the phone and in person) that they really wouldn't care. they have a very very successful restaurant that has a definite air of 'coolness' to it, and INCREDIBLE food. this has been enough to make them very very successful, and though i do believe that at some point that will wear out, i just don't care enough to give suggestions to someone who i am confident will not care to listen anyway. there are certain standards of restaurant service that any staff at a restaurant like that should know, and some think they are important and some don't. because i feel strongly about them, i was disappointed that such a successful restaurant wouldn't. i should mention that the meal was by no means atrocious- the food was amazing and the service was mechanically as it should have been with only a few exceptions. those few exceptions (waiting 45 min for our 9:30 reso, aloof-ness about wrapping 1/2 of a steak, crumpling the original check at the table) happened to negate much of the pleasure we got from the great food. as i said upthread, i have a hard time blaming servers for what i consider to be mgmt/upper mgmt issues- i tipped 20% of the original total bill (before the steak was taken off). i also don't believe that low tips are an effective way to tell a server you didn't like the job they did (they usually pass off the low tip as an expression of the person giving it rather than of their own service).

[SundaySous]

Well put sir or mamn. I can only hope you paid with a credit card and dispute the charge. Trust me you will get the management's attention that way.

Really sucks when you pay almost $200 per person and get shiated on. Go get them.

[san]

Well put sir or mamn. I can only hope you paid with a credit card and dispute the charge. Trust me you will get the management's attention that way.

Really sucks when you pay almost $200 per person and get shiated on. Go get them.

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i don't feel like i got shiated on, i just think that there is a school of thought that potential customers SEEK restaurants: whose staff acts 'above' their guests, that are tough to get a reso and rarely care to seat you near your reso time anyway, and are generally unconcerned how individual 'non-regular'/non-celebrity diners feel about their service. apparently this school is at least in some ways right; since i come from the opposite school i find this behavior disappointing. i guess it's just not for me. since we didn't drink (this may be the first time i've ever typed those last 3 words) it was only about 80 per person, and the food was worth most of it.

[fendi_pilot]

Anytime I'm going to an expensive restaurant, even if the food is amazing - it's really an entire experience you're paying for.

If I have to wait for a reservation (especially 45 minutes) or deal with rude or snobby behavior that's really going to potentially ruin it and place me in not ideal circumstances for enjoyment (which is the whole reason you pay people to cook food for you). If I see them make an effort to remedy bad situations it goes a long way. i.e. table not ready -'sorry, here's some free drinks', depending on how hungry I am, might begin to make it ok.

I remember eating in one restaurant a few years ago where I was in a chair that was continually being bumped by a waiter as he passed. The first time I ignored it but after several times I decided to stand up and confront him in front of the entire dining room - maybe not the best idea but he didn't do it again.

Anyway- I would NOT have tipped the waiter 20% and probably would have been fairly upset that I was basically paying someone to piss me off. That said, I do think you should try to contact management you never know what will happen. It won't take much of your time and I think it's the diner's duty to politely make his bad experiences known and at least give them the chance.....

Also why are you so reluctant to name the restaurant ? You could be saving other people from a similar fate. . .

[TAPrice]

I'd say food preparation really surged ahead of service in the 1980s.

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Assuming this is true, could the rise of chef as owners be part of the problem? Do chefs in general put less emphasis on (and pay less attention to) the front of the house than other owners

[Alchemist]

I have worked as a waiter in restaurants both chef owned, and investor owned. i would say that the chef owned operations were much more into service than the non chef owned. But then many of the chefs I worked for were...Ahem...control freaks? They were very aware that the FOH is the front lines and some of the chefs were, with good reason, Nazis about the servers knowing EVERYTHING about the food on the plate. We, as servers, trembled when we were asked if the duck special was roasted or seared on the Wolf then finished in a convection oven? And if the quinoas it was served with was first enjoyed by the Aztecs or the Mayan civilizations? And did they eat with their hands or did they have utensils? The half b*%llst questions always ended in tears or vows of vengeance.

I also worked for matire 'd that would pinch. yes that little bit behind the arm. I worked at a place where the manager would ball up the top inch of paper on the straws, flick them into the dining room and notice who walked by, as well as time how long it took someone to pick it up. This all sucked. But I became a good waiter with an attention to detail that cannonballs into the OCD.

We are in a kinder and gentler time in the hospitality industry. Sadly the times of being "down and out in Paris" are over. The industry had gotten a bit soft. We don't put in the 16 hour days, we don’t cut off digits and then go to the bar for triage 10 hours later, we don’t bleed into out shoes and consider it lube, we don’t show up with Typhoid and finish the shift. We wanted our jobs. We loved every crazy; out of control moment because interspersed with those were moments of grace, there were moments of genius that were seasoned with our sweat, our blood and our sleepless nights.

I choose to take a page from the wonderful people who trained me in bartending. I coddle and smile, I bring people to the office and gently bring up their mistakes, instead of grossly exaggerating their mistakes and mocking them in front of the entire staff, hopefully with someone to translate into Spanish and a chubby girl in the corner doing sign language.

Life has gotten too easy. We foster the “everybody gets a trophy” ethic This is not Montessori school or the Special Olympics. “Sure he sucks as a waiter but he is a walk on in an off, off, off b-way play in three weeks”. This, our industry, is a very respectable and interesting place to work. Get over it and work!

Toby

Edited November 13, 2007 by Alchemist (log)

[SundaySous]

Speaking to a chef instructor he said many graduates leave the program not understanding FOH. If the service is killing the business it is indirectly effecting your pay/bonus.

He advocated getting involved.