When Traditional Ingredients Aren't Available

[sheetz]

Dejah's Chop Suey thread got me thinking about ways in which Chinese cooks have used local ingredients in their cooking in place of more traditional ones. This is a topic rarely discussed and I thought it would be interesting if we could come up with some examples.

Here are a few that I have come across growing up in the US:

1. American style cake flour in dumpling recipes. Commonly used in steamed "tay" like turnip cakes, taro cakes, and "jee cheong fun" noodle rolls. It's pretty amazing that in the US there are countless elderly Chinese women who can't speak a word of English yet can spot a box of Swans Down cake flour from a mile away.

2. Peanut butter as a dumpling filling in place of sweet bean paste. This substitution may actually be due to cost considerations rather than scarcity of ingredients, however. I've seen peanut butter stuffed into, among other things, deep fried sesame balls (jin dui) and glutinous rice balls.

3. Frozen bread dough for baked buns. I didn't believe this when I first heard it, but after experimenting with frozen bread dough myself I can indeed confirm that many Chinese bakeries (and even some finer dim sum restaurants) use ordinary frozen bread dough for their baked goods. It's almost impossible to get their characteristic soft crusts otherwise.

Anybody else know of similar examples?

[I_call_the_duck]

I don't know if this is exactly the same, but Mom uses Bisquick to make fatt gao. She found a recipe in the newspaper years ago, and hasn't made them from scratch since.

Edited October 30, 2007 by I_call_the_duck (log)

[sheetz]

Wow, that's interesting. I don't supposed you could obtain the recipe, could you? I know a lady who uses Bisquick to make dough for steamed bao.

Oh, and was it someone here who said they knew of a restaurant that served whole fried chicken with Pringles potato chips instead of the more common prawn crackers?

[jo-mel]

Here's one for you:

Ox Tongue Biscuits made with refrigerated biscuits instead of flour, baking soda, salt, oil and water. I've done both, and the pre-made biscuits are just fine.

These are little steamed doughy puffs that are in the shape of an ox tongue and the centers are oiled, so that after they are steamed you can open them up to receive whatever you want to stuff in them. I use them with hot pot and those doughy dumplings filled with a thin slice of beef or lamb are just the best!

How about dates for sweet bean filling? Spaghetti for noodles? I don't think that Western broccoli would count for lan cai, or green beans for yard long beans, but how about jicama for waterchestnut?

[jo-mel]

Another thought --

The deep fried spinach leaves (or basil leaves) in the wonderful Chiu Chow Chicken. Traditionally a chili leaf is used, or "pearl vegetable" --- a small maple-like leaf called jun jiu choi.

[sheetz]

Ox Tongue Biscuits made with refrigerated biscuits instead of flour, baking soda, salt, oil and water. I've done both, and the pre-made biscuits are just fine.

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I've never tried steaming those before, but I have deep fried refrigerator dough to simulate fried crullers back when I didn't know how to make them from scratch.

I should try the jicama for water chestnuts, since I don't often get good, fresh water chestnuts where I am, and it seems like I lose half their weight after peeling them.

Re: spaghetti for noodles, I've always wondered if it was possible to substitute overcooked fettuccine for steamed rice noodles in a dish like chow fun.

[Dejah]

Ox Tongue Biscuits made with refrigerated biscuits instead of flour, baking soda, salt, oil and water. I've done both, and the pre-made biscuits are just fine.

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Re: spaghetti for noodles, I've always wondered if it was possible to substitute overcooked fettuccine for steamed rice noodles in a dish like chow fun.

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I've seen spaghetti used in place of Shanghai noodles. Just doesn't cut it. I think it would be the same problem using fettuccine for ho fun - not enough "give". Mind, the rehydrated rice noodles are like fettuccini in texture - chewier.

[hzrt8w]

Re: spaghetti for noodles, I've always wondered if it was possible to substitute overcooked fettuccine for steamed rice noodles in a dish like chow fun.

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I think pasta substituting for rice noodle is a bit off. After all, rice noodles and wheat noodles are fundamentally different. Spaghetti can be a good substitute for some noodle dishes. And people in Hong Kong offer "chow spaghetti" dishes.

[sheetz]

Re: spaghetti for noodles, I've always wondered if it was possible to substitute overcooked fettuccine for steamed rice noodles in a dish like chow fun.

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I think pasta substituting for rice noodle is a bit off. After all, rice noodles and wheat noodles are fundamentally different.

You would think so, but I buy these fresh "rice noodle" sheets that the local Chinese grocer gets from somewhere in Chicago, and the ingredients label clearly lists wheat flour instead of rice flour as the primary ingredient. You can tell the difference, of course, but when prepared as you would with chow fun it's not that big a difference. And as I've mentioned before, there are many recipes which use cake flour to similulate rice flour.

Edited October 31, 2007 by sheetz (log)

[Ce'nedra]

Another thought --

The deep fried spinach leaves (or basil leaves) in the wonderful Chiu Chow Chicken.  Traditionally a chili leaf is used, or "pearl vegetable" --- a small maple-like leaf called jun jiu choi.

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Offtopic but how do you make Chiu Chow Chicken? Being long lost Chiu Chow, I'm interested

[I_call_the_duck]

Wow, that's interesting. I don't supposed you could obtain the recipe, could you? I know a lady who uses Bisquick to make dough for steamed bao.

Oh, and was it someone here who said they knew of a restaurant that served whole fried chicken with Pringles potato chips instead of the more common prawn crackers?

←

sheetz, I'll ask Mom. They actually aren't that bad.

To the second question, could have been me. I've seen restaurants that serve Pringles instead of prawn crackers. That's just wrong!

Another thing from Mom--we've steamed Brown and Serve rolls with lap cherng for a quick breakfast. And with the advent of the microwave, we just nuked them.

Edited October 31, 2007 by I_call_the_duck (log)

[jo-mel]

Even tho we all know the origins of 'ket tsap', there must be SOME use of American ketchup in Chinese dishes.

One book suggested ketchup as a sub for hoisin sauce! (yuk!)

[jo-mel]

Another thought --

The deep fried spinach leaves (or basil leaves) in the wonderful Chiu Chow Chicken.  Traditionally a chili leaf is used, or "pearl vegetable" --- a small maple-like leaf called jun jiu choi.

←

Offtopic but how do you make Chiu Chow Chicken? Being long lost Chiu Chow, I'm interested

←

The first time I had this dish was in a Chiu Chow restaurant in NYC, about 15 years ago. The fried 'vegetable' had me perplexed until the waiter said it was spinach, altho the menu said Pearl Leaves. -- which is used in the traditional dish. But, aside from the intriguing fried spinach, the dish itself is really tasty. I was delighted to findthe recipe in a couple of my cook books -- one being Hom's "Fragrant Harbor Taste". Here is what I use when I make it -- adapted to answer copyrite laws:

CHIU CHOW CHICKEN WITH CRISP SPINACH

1 pound boneless skinless chicken thighs cut into 1 inch pieces and MARINATE for 20 to 30 minutes in -- 1 tsp each dark soy and light soy sauces, 1 tsp. sugar, 1 tsp. sesame oil, 1 tsp. sherry, 1 egg white beaten, 2 Tbsp. cornstarch.

For the SAUCE: Combine: 1 Tbsp. oyster sauce, 1/2 tsp. sugar, 2 Tbsp. chicken broth, and 1 tsp. cornstarch.

OTHER INGREDIENTS:

3 cups oil

½ pound fresh spinach

2 scallions sliced diagonally

1 tsp. coarsely ground pepper

1 Tbsp. sherry or Shao-Hsing wine

1 scallion finely sliced for garnish

Trim and wash the spinach AND DRY WELL!!! / Measure the pepper in a cup and set aside. / Measure the sherry in a cup and set aside. / Slice the scallion and set aside.

COOKING:

Heat a wok and add the oil. (Have a cover handy for the splatter) When oil has reached 375’, add a handful of spinach, bar against the splatter, and deep/fry for about 30 seconds or until the leaves change color. Remove to paper towels. Continue with the rest of the spinach. NOTE: Even with really dry spinach, there will be spatter -- a lot of it! So take care. The initial spattter dies down quickly, but stay on guard.

Heat the oil to 350’. Stir the chicken, add to the oil and gently stir around to separate pieces. When golden, about 2 to 3 minutes, remove and drain from the oil.

Drain oil, or use new wok. Add 2 Tbsp oil and heat. Add diagonal scallions and stir/fry a few moments. Add the pepper. Stir. Return the chicken and heat. Add the sherry, stir in to coat the chicken. Stir the sauce mix and add to the chicken. Stir till all is hot.

SERVING: Place spinach around a platter, and place the chicken in the center. Sprinkle with the scallions and serve.

ALTERNATE METHOD:Rather than velveting the chicken MARINATE the pieces in 2 Tbsp dark soy, 1 tsp. sherry, 1 tsp. sugar, 1 tsp. sesame oil and 2 tsp. cornstarch. Stir fry the chicken in 2 Tbsp. oil, addinf a sprinkling of water to keep the chicken from drying out. Continue with the recipe.

[SheenaGreena]

Even  tho we all know the origins of 'ket tsap', there must be SOME use of American ketchup in Chinese dishes.

One book suggested ketchup as a sub for hoisin sauce! (yuk!)

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oops, I used a tiny bit in my bastardized version of mapo dofu. I also screwed it up more by using korean gochujang and korean black bean sauce.

then it would be called mapo dubu (dubu = tofu in korean)

[Ben Hong]

Even  tho we all know the origins of 'ket tsap', there must be SOME use of American ketchup in Chinese dishes.

I always use a bit of ordinary ketchup in my beef and tomatoes. Melds everything together nicely. In our restaurants we used to serve a dish called keh tsap har, or spicy ketchup shrimp.

[liuzhou]

As I've mentioned befoer on another thread, almost every supermarket and grocery store here in China carries ketchup. People must be using it for something. Even my very traditional mother-in-law has a bottle. I must ask her what she does with it.

[canucklehead]

Shell on prawns stirred fried with garlic and ketchup. You want the sauce to carmelize and the shells and legs would to slightly char. As you peeled and ate it - the shrimp would be juicy and brightly flavored. One of my favorite home cooked meals as a kid - real comfort food.

[I_call_the_duck]

sheetz, I finally got the recipe for fat gaos using Bisquick from Mom. Right in time to test drive it before CNY.

Fat gaos

1c flour

1c bisquick

1c brown sugar

1c water

1t vanilla or almond extract

1t baking powder

Put everything in a bowl. Mix well (I think she uses a hand beater). Fill lined cupcake tins ¾ full. Steam 25 minutes.

[Ce'nedra]

I've mentioned this just before, but when we make popiah at home, we use rice paper (which is btw, a delicious substitute) because we haven't yet found popiah wrapper (normally flour-based).

It's not bad at all though. I like our version of it -I believe the Vietnamese would refer to it as bo bia (popiah using rice paper -as they do in Vietnam).