Nước chấm sauce without citrus?

[Josho]

My wife and I regularly get some very good Vietnamese food locally, and frequently the dishes are accompanied by a nước mắm sauce. I'd like to be able to duplicate this at home, but so far, all the recipes I can find call for lime (or even lemon) juice. The dipping sauce we're given is completely clear, amber-colored, and has no hint of citrus flavors. It also generally contains a few shredded carrots and perhaps a few red pepper flakes.

Anyone have any idea what this recipe might be?

Many thanks,

Josh

[prasantrin]

Nuoc mam is, as far as I know, just plain fish sauce. Nuoc cham has lime juice.

[melkor]

It's usually vinegar, chopped chilies, and some fish sauce.

[prasantrin]

It's usually vinegar, chopped chilies, and some fish sauce.

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That's nuoc cham, though lime juice is preferred over vinegar.

Sometimes it's called nuoc mam cham, perhaps that's the source of the confusion.

But nuoc mam is just fish sauce.

[Josho]

It's usually vinegar, chopped chilies, and some fish sauce.

←

That's nuoc cham, though lime juice is preferred over vinegar.

Sometimes it's called nuoc mam cham, perhaps that's the source of the confusion.

But nuoc mam is just fish sauce.

←

Hi, Prasantrin,

I should have been clearer, I'm sorry. I know that nước mắm itself is fish sauce. I didn't know what to call the actual dipping sauce, since nước chắm always seemed to be citrus-based, so I was just trying to say "a sauce made with nước mắm."

I'll give a nước chắm recipe a try, subbing vinegar (white, I'm guessing?) for the lime juice. Thanks!

--Josh

[nakji]

Try subbing in a rice vinegar. Although, to be honest, if you'd asked me what was in the nuoc cham I was eating in Hanoi, I probably wouldn't have guessed limes were in there. Limes in (northern) Vietnam are small and round, unlike the ones I used to see in Canada, with the small nubbly ends. They tasted a bit different, too - sweeter? Depending on where you are, the restaurant might be using a different type of lime than you're used to.

Why don't you ask the staff at the restaurant? I'm sure they'd tell you how they make it.

[Josho]

Thanks, Nakji,

I'll try both!

Best regards,

Josh

[maxmillan]

Are you using water in your dipping sauce, too? I've been googling and find some recipes call for water, while others call for lime/lemon juice or rice vinegar.

Which is more authentic or tastes better? The water sounds like it might be too mild for the heavy Vietnames dishes. What do most restaurants use?

[heidih]

The recipe I have seen Vietnamese women make seems to follow the one in Bach Ngo and Gloria Zimmerman's Classic Cuisine of Vietnam. A clove of garlic pounded with half a hot chili pepper and 2 generous teaspoons of sugar. Just a little lime juice squeezed in (although my friend would actually make sure to include the pulp with no membrane), 2 tablespoons of fish sauce and 2 and a half or more tablespoons of water to taste. I saw her combine everything except the lime juice, microwave for a very few seconds to gentle it and melt sugar, and then add lime. On other occasions they added some rice vinegar as well. As previously stated by others, even the ones with lime do not taste of citrus. This is actually a very subtle though addictive sauce. You just need to expermiment.

[maxmillan]

The recipe I have seen Vietnamese women make seems to follow the one in Bach Ngo and Gloria Zimmerman's Classic Cuisine of Vietnam. A clove of garlic pounded with half a hot chili pepper and 2 generous teaspoons of sugar.  Just a little lime juice squeezed in (although my friend would actually make sure to include the pulp with no membrane), 2 tablespoons of fish sauce and 2 and a half or more tablespoons of water to taste. I saw her combine everything except the lime juice, microwave for a very few seconds to gentle it and melt sugar, and then add lime. On other occasions they added some rice vinegar as well. As previously stated by others, even the ones with lime do not taste of citrus. This is actually a very subtle though addictive sauce. You just need to expermiment.

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Thanks for the info. I'm going to try it today. It looks similar to Corinne Tran's recipe in her book, "Authentic Vietnamese Cooking, Food From a Family Table."

[Preserver]

Try subbing in a rice vinegar. Although, to be honest, if you'd asked me what was in the nuoc cham I was eating in Hanoi, I probably wouldn't have guessed limes were in there. Limes in (northern) Vietnam are small and round, unlike the ones I used to see in Canada, with the small nubbly ends. They tasted a bit different, too - sweeter? Depending on where you are, the restaurant might be using a different type of lime than you're used to.

Why don't you ask the staff at the restaurant? I'm sure they'd tell you how they make it.

←

i was born and raised in malaysia and the citrus that is used in the nuoc cham is called Calamansi, but unfortunately it is not found here. I did bring some seeds in but unfortunately i dont' have the green thumb to grow it.. is is still in a pot with loads of leaves but no fruit. the best way to describe the taste of a Calamansi is like a sour version of a mini mandarin orange. it looks like a mandarin orange and also peels like one. the segments can be separated like a madarin as well.. only the skin is green and also it is sour. ahh what i would give to have some calamansi here in California...

[C. sapidus]

i was born and raised in malaysia and the citrus that is used in the nuoc cham is called Calamansi, but unfortunately it is not found here. I did bring some seeds in but unfortunately i dont' have the green thumb to grow it.. is is still in a pot with loads of leaves but no fruit. the  best way to describe the taste of a Calamansi is like a sour version of a mini mandarin orange. it looks like a mandarin orange and also peels like one. the segments can be separated like a madarin as well.. only the skin is green and also it is sour. ahh what i would give to have some calamansi here in California...

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Is calamansi the same as calamondin? If so, Four Winds Growers sells a wide variety of dwarf citrus plants. We have mail-ordered from there several times, and the plants have been very healthy.

Calamondin at Four Winds Growers.

[junehl]

When my parents used to make nuoc cham for the restaurant they would only use vinegar, water, and sugar. Since they make a big batch of it, they did not use any fresh citrus juice, in case it went bad over time.

When we eat it ourselves, i know they sometimes cut wedges of lime into the sauce and stir it around before using.

[Laksa]

i was born and raised in malaysia and the citrus that is used in the nuoc cham is called Calamansi, but unfortunately it is not found here. I did bring some seeds in but unfortunately i dont' have the green thumb to grow it.. is is still in a pot with loads of leaves but no fruit. the  best way to describe the taste of a Calamansi is like a sour version of a mini mandarin orange. it looks like a mandarin orange and also peels like one. the segments can be separated like a madarin as well.. only the skin is green and also it is sour. ahh what i would give to have some calamansi here in California...

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I'm very surprised to read that. Kalamansi is readily available at most Asian grocery stores I've been to in NY and NJ. I'd been under the impression that they came from California!

[Laksa]

Is calamansi the same as calamondin?

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The picture doesn't look like the kalamansi I know, which is almost always green, sometimes with patches of pale yellow.

Here's a picture of it in imagegullet, not mine.

[Adam Balic]

Is calamansi the same as calamondin?

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The picture doesn't look like the kalamansi I know, which is almost always green, sometimes with patches of pale yellow.

Here's a picture of it in imagegullet, not mine.

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Same thing as a Calamondin (an ancient cross between a kumquat and a mandarin). Kumquat and calamondin are often confused (especially in Australia), but the former is usually sweeter (the peel).

The kalamansi I have had in SE-Asia are used green, which leads to an extra confusion that recipes translated into English often say "Lime", which they differ from widely in size and flavour. In Australia most "kumquats" are actually calamondin and are used when ripe (orange yellow) to make marmalade or to preserve in alcohol etc.

The sixe of the fruit is influenced a bit by the size of the tree, as calamondin are often grown in tub and use a dwarfing rootstock the fruit is slightly smaller then a lot of the Kalamansi I have seen in SE-Asia.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Adam Balic (log)