On Stirring & Cooking Your Cocktails

[johnder]

I know for myself when I get a dupe that has 5 drinks on it, say

Manhattan

Aviation

El Diablo

Dirty Vodka Martini (eek)

and a draft beer

My order for building the drinks would be to put out the two mixing glasses full of ice and build the stirred drinks (Manhattan and Martini). Give it a quick stir and set it aside.

Then build the other two drinks in their shaker tins. Pack with ice and shake the two drinks. Pull the glassware needed and pour our the shaken drinks. Give the two stirred drinks a stir for 10-15 second then pour those out and then pull the beer while the server garnishes the drinks.

It is pretty common practice for most cocktail centric bars in NYC to follow this practice of always building your stirred drinks first and setting them aside to "cook" while you make the other drinks. I wouldn't leave the stir drinks to cook too long, but in the time it takes me to make a aviation and a diablo from first pour of liquor to pour out into the glass is probably 1 minute and change.

I like working in service and getting big tickets of different drinks. It is sort of a game to determine the best optimization algorithm for the least amount of movement of the bottles; ie: building all the drinks simultaneously.

[slkinsey]

Makes sense. Stirring accelerates the thermal transfer between the ice and the spirits. There is some thermal transfer going on while the booze is just sitting on the ice, but not nearly as much. This is why the spirits can sit on the ice while you build the shaken drinks without overly diluting the cocktail (and, as you observe, you usually end up having to stir at the end for even a little more dilution). This is somewhat dependent on the size of the ice, of course.

[bostonapothecary]

you guys are lucky you are at a point where you can analyze the art... i can't even get my guys to stir at all... i started printing "stirred" as an ingredient on the cocktail list to keep my bartenders honest...

i get so many large tips for stirring manhattans and making them proper... up here i apparently look pretty good relative to most other people's technique... sad but profitable??

i use frozen pints for stirring because i have really bad ice... i started drinking more of my own drinks and realized i needed to keep more frozen pints around because with the ice i have its the only way to really get things cold enough and not diluted to death...

i've notice though that sometimes i'm not getting enough dilution. my freezer with the pints seems to have a big spread in temperature and needs to be defrosted often... if its at its most cold things need to rest a little longer to dilute to normal level or so i've observed...

tricky this cocktail mixing business...

[Chris Amirault]

Cooking for 1-2 minutes (John's estimate to a drink I recently timed somewhere not-PDT) seems a bit long to me, but, then again, I like my stirred drinks pretty strong and after decades of watery swill I tend to undercook.

Sam, when you did those measurements of stirred drinks a while back and dilution, what did you find about timing?

[slkinsey]

Timing is all dependent on the variables I posted upthread. If you have very cold ice in big pieces, it can sit for quite some time without diluting. On the other hand, if you have 100% finely cracked ice, you want to get the spirits on and off the ice rather quickly. In general, you're looking for something between 20% and 25% dilution, depending on the spirits (proof, intensity, etc.) and the desired effect. It's up to each person to work with the materials they have and arrive at an optimal strategy.

I personally find that hand-cracked ice straight out of the freezer works best (I've experimented with machine-cracked ice, but this is a bit too small and results in more dilution than I want). I fill a frozen glass mixing vessel as full of ice as it can possibly be packed. Given this arrangement, I find that it can sit for a minute or two with no ill effect. The more coldness you bring to the game, the slower the ice will melt. You'll always get a more watered drink if you stir with 3 ice cubes instead of 23 ice cubes.

Of course, the longer the booze sits on the ice, the more dilution you're going to get. And the more chilling you're going to get (up to a point). The trick is matching up optimal chilling with the proper amount of dilution. One way to play with this on a more scientific basis would be to pick up a jug of cheap vodka, a Thermopen and some finely calibrated measuring flasks. But the results you get at home with your ice and your equipment won't necessarily hold true at someone else's home, never mind a bar like PDT (in general, the Kold Draft ice at top cocktail bars starts out better in terms of purity/density, but ends up warmer than home ice by the time it's used -- this is one reason they can't use as much cracked ice as I can use at home and generally go with a mixture of cracked and whole ice for stirring).

Edited January 3, 2008 by slkinsey (log)

[eje]

Lately, I've been making all my stirred drinks with cracked ice cubes in the 28oz stainless half of my WMF boston shaker and have found the results much more consistent than mucking about chilling a mixing glass or using a mixing glass at room temp.

I understand the visual appeal of making a stirred drink in the tempered glass mixing glass, but given the usual state of bar ice, I wonder if it is ultimately the best method.

I find the temperature of the tempered mixing glass makes one of the larger differences in the temperature and dilution of the cocktail.

If you're not free pouring, is there any compelling reason to use the tempered clear mixing glass? Why not just use the stainless tin so you don't have to worry about the temperature of the glass sucking all the cold out of your drink?

I did have one person float the idea past me that the taste of a martini mixed in stainless was noticeably different from that of a drink made in glass. I'm kind of dubious, especially if we're talking about 18/10 stainless, but who knows...

[slkinsey]

The only reasons to use glass are (a) it's easier to see the dilution, and (b) if the glass is pre-chilled, there are some thermal benefits. Needless to say, if the mixing vessel is not pre-chilled, it is disadvantageous from a thermal perspective to use glass. Most home users can spare a little extra room in the freezer for a mixing glass or two. Most bars use room-temperature equipment, which means it would be more advantageous to use a metal mixing vessel. Bars like Pegu Club that are able to freeze their glass mixing vessels are generally able to produce the coldest stirred drinks.

All of which leads to the general rule of thumb:

room temperature equipment = use metal

frozen equipment = use glass

It's up to the individual home or professional mixologist as to whether it's worth the trouble to freeze the equipment. There is no reason to freeze the typical thin metal mixing cup, because the thermal capacity is too low to make a difference.

[jmfangio]

It's interesting to me that no one has designed a better stirring vessel.  I'd think that something with a convex curved shape, perhaps also with a gently rounded inner surface at the bottom of the glass, would better facilitate graceful and easy stirring than the straight-sided or gently sloped, narrow-at-the bottom mixing glasses we use today.  In fact, a properly curved "stirring glass" could easily be employed as a "swirling glass" where the contents are mixed around without even needing the intervention of a spoon (the bartender would gently move the glass around in a circular motion, thereby using our old friend centripetal force to create a minor vortex inside the glass without the use of a spoon).

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I saw something kind of like this being done in the India episode of No Reservations. The bartender assembled the ingredients in a large snifter, then stirred the drink by swirling the base on the counter (scroll to around 6:40 in the video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4j3oxsawL4

Definitely looks cool, but I wonder how effective it is.

[slkinsey]

That's the general idea. Of course, that particular mixing vessel is too small (and the bartender uses only a single large piece of ice) to be particularly efficient. But something with a similarly curved shape and a volume closer to 30 ounces, capable of accommodating at least ten cubes worth of cracked ice, would work nicely. In my mind's eye, it would be taller and narrower than a snifter, which would make it easier to pour out of.

[jmfangio]

That's the general idea.  Of course, that particular mixing vessel is too small (and the bartender uses only a single large piece of ice) to be particularly efficient.  But something with a similarly curved shape and a volume closer to 30 ounces, capable of accommodating at least ten cubes worth of cracked ice, would work nicely.  In my mind's eye, it would be taller and narrower than a snifter, which would make it easier to pour out of.

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Something a bit like a 1000ml Erlenmeyer flask?

[slkinsey]

Maybe, yea. Although Erlenmeyers are usually too narrow at the top. I see you linked to "wide mouth" flasks -- I wonder how wide they are at the opening? If the opening fit a Hawthorne (and especially if it had a pouring channel) it might do in a pinch. Ideally, I'd prefer something curved in such a way that the widest part of the mixing vessel was in the center rather than down at the bottom.

[eje]

[...]

All of which leads to the general rule of thumb:

room temperature equipment = use metal

frozen equipment = use glass

[...]

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What temperature is your freezer?

If I keep a tempered mixing glass in my freezer (currently -3 F) and then add water it instantaneously freezes. This tells me the same thing likely happens with spirits added to the glass. That is, their temperature drops below freezing pretty much instantaneously.

To be sure, this results in a very cold cocktail, but it seems to me you would have to stir for a very long time time to get any decent amount of dilution in alcohol that cold stirred with ice.

[slkinsey]

All depends on how much booze you put in the glass, how much ice you add to the glass and the size of the ice. But here's the thing: You can always stir a little longer to get the proper dilution, but if you start out with too much thermal energy there is only so cold the drink can ever be. (Similarly, if the drink is too cold for your liking, you can always let it warm up, but it doesn't work in the other direction.)

[lancastermike]

When I started tending bar I used the spinning the spoon between my hands method. I did not know any better. One of the real old bartenders showed me his technique. It was very similar to folding egg whites into cake batter. Much more of a lifting the spoon through the drink than really stirring it. I adopted this method and felt it worked well. Been years since I worked and you fellows are more learned in the cocktailing art than I ever was. As many have mentioned the key i think is good, hard, cold ice.

I used to work with a guy who would fill the ice bin to the top at the start of the shift. He never ran out of ice, but if you got a drink a couple hours into his shift it was all wet and warm.

[Alchemist]

This post is in reply to a post in the Averna comp. thread.

This "cooking" time is why you see bartenders build stirred cocktails over ice and shaken cocktails with out ice. Every type of ice or ice plus chilling method can be equated with a piece of cooking equipment.

We'll go from littlest to biggest.

Crushed ice.= Salamander. Browns things fast, but doesn’t get deep heat into item. Good quick dillution, poor chilling.

Cheater= The Microwave. Sure it heats stuff up but rarely evenly, and can ruin a texture. Cheater ice won't chill a drink much, and it will most probably over dilute it but it'll get done quick.

Kold-Draft=An industrial range. Good browning/deep heat but can take a while. You can get excellent chilling and dillution with proper stirring tecnique.

Chunks(out of 18*F freezer)=Convection oven. Gets drinks really cold but usually need to flash it in the Salamander to get dilution.

This is a little simplistic but I choose an ice or a combonation, depending on cooking times, how weeded I am, what I need from my ice (dillution, airation, chilling, impression) and how much my elbow hurts.

Toby

Edited for clarification on what this is in response to.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Alchemist (log)

[slkinsey]

Hmmm. If we're talking about stirred drinks and not shaken drinks (which have different requirements when it comes to ice), I'm not sure I entirely agree with Toby as to these effects.

The four most important considerations when chilling a drink are:

1. Chilling technique (i.g., shaking, stirring, julep, old fashioned, rocks, etc.)

2. The composition and temperature of the hardware.

3. The ratio of ice to liquid.

4. The size and shape of the ice.

5. The temperature of the ice.

For the purposes of this particular fork in the discussion, we are pulling out considerations 1 and 2: the chilling technique is stirring/straining and, for the purpose of considering the effect of ice alone, we should make the assumption that the composition and temperature of the shaker and glass are constant (we can consider their effects separately).

Consideration #5 is very important in an absolute sense, but in the vast majority of situations it is also removed from consideration. Most home cocktailians have ice at one temperature from their freezer (usually -18C/0F, which is much colder than the ice at most any bar); and very few bars have a freezer reserved for special "extra cold" ice. One possibility would be for bars to maintain a slurry of dry ice and high proof grain alcohol, which can get as low as -70C. Water ice cubes could be stored or tempered in the slurry for extra-cold ice.

Anyway... fundamentally what we're concerned with is the ratio of ice to liquid and the size/shape of the ice.

As a general rule of thumb, we would like to have a lot of ice and a small amount of liquid. This creates the largest thermal disequilibrium and will result in liquid that is closest to the temperature of the ice.

Assuming a reasonably good ratio of ice to liquid, most important is the size and the shape of the ice -- although size and shape of ice has an effect on the ratio of ice to liquid because it is possible to pack a greater volume of ice into a given container if the ice is in smaller pieces and shapes that fit together relatively well. Again, as a general rule of thumb, pieces of ice with a greater surface area to volume ratio will have more efficient thermal transfer, resulting in faster/lower chilling and, to a lesser extent, also faster dilution. It we are talking about chunk-shaped ice, a greater surface to volume ratio is associated with a smaller size (eight 1x1 ice cubes have double the surface area available for thermal transfer compared to one 2x2 ice cube).

It is quite possible to make a properly chilled and diluted stirred drink using crushed ice: you just have to use very cold crushed ice (most crushed ice at bars is wet and warm), you have to use a lot of crushed ice, and you have to get the liquid on and off the ice very quickly -- stir it once and strain it immediately. Of course this is not a particularly easy technique, and not one that is well suited to the environment of a professional bar.

Large chunks of ice are not so great for stirred drinks. They have a large thermal capacity, but ultimately they do not have a particularly good surface area to volume ratio which means that they do not conduct thermal energy particularly efficiently. This is actually good when you want to be able to shake the drink for a long time without overly diluting the drink. It's also good for a drink where you want the ice to sit in the glass for a long time without melting very much, in which case it is a good idea to "pre-chill" and strain the drink into the glass over the large chunk of ice (spherical ice, which has the lowest surface area to volume ratio, is the best for this). But, if you're doing a straight stirred drink, by the time the drink is stirred long enough to be sufficiently diluted, it won't be as cold as it would be using smaller pieces of ice at the same temperature and a shorter stirring time. This is further complicated because their large size makes it difficult to pack the mixing vessel and get a high ratio of ice to liquid. Of course, if Toby's big chunk ice is at a special lower temperature, this can make a difference. But the difference would be even greater if he were to keep medium cracked ice in the same freezer with the big chunk ice (or if he hand-cracked the special cold chunk ice for stirring).

As a number of people have demonstrated (myself and Dave Wondrich among them, although it's an easy experiment to do for yourself), the best and most practical size/shape for optimal chilling with between 20%-25% dilution in a stirred/strained drink, assuming ice at a given temperature, is medium cracked ice of approximately the size obtained by hand-cracking Kold Draft or standard home freezer ice tray cubes. This is assuming that one is in a situation in which is is possible to give full attention to the preparation of that drink. In circumstances where the drink will "cook" while the bartender turns his/her attention to the multitasking preparation of other libations, it makes sense to adjust the size of the ice (or, rather, the particular mixture of sizes of ice) in the mixing vessel so that the drink is not overly diluted by the wait. This will come down to experience, preferences and familiarity with the materials employed (temperature/quality/sizes the ice available, etc.). An experienced cocktailian bartender like Toby knows exactly how to mix his various ice sizes to obtain a consistent effect in a variety of circumstances. There is little reason to "cook" the cockail on the ice in a home context, unless one is also multitasking. This is a compromise technique -- stirring with plenty of cold ice and straining directly will always obtain the coldest drink with the most control.

Edited January 15, 2008 by slkinsey (log)

[Alchemist]

Cooking in the home bar context there is a trick we use at closing time for staff drinks that can be utilized. You build your drink in the glass, add requisite amount of ice, stir a little and then stick it in the freezer. This slows down dilution, re-chills the glass, and chills liquid at the same time. The drink will come out too cold. But then you have a couple of minutes to get everything ready before you pour off your cocktails. And when they hit your guest’s hands they will be the perfect temp.

Another thing that we haven’t spoken about is too cold ice. I don’t want my ice below 15* F because if you drop it in room temp liquid, it shatters and you have some crushed, come cracked and some chunk ice all of a sudden, as well as a sliver in your eye most probably. I prefer to add ice by hand to control what size and shape goes into the mixing glass to get proper dilution as well as stack the ice so stirring is easier. It is very difficult to stir with one big chunk in the glass, so crack that chunk down and add the pieces in a different, chaotic order to facilitate stirring.

Toby

[slkinsey]

I usually make stirred drinks in my pint glasses.

Unless you chill the pint glass, you'll get a colder stirred drink by using the metal tin.

I usually find that by the time the drink is properly chilled, it has just about the right amount of dilution. When I chilled the pint glass, I didn't get enough dilution. Well, it was ok for me as I don't mind the drinks really stiff, however my wife and many guests don't always enjoy "the burn".

I haven't tried stirring in the tin as I'm usually making a couple drinks at a time and have multiple pint glasses (brewery tours ftw) and only 1 tin. If the dilution ends up being the same and the drink colder, that would be welcome. I'll have to give it a shot side by side.

one man's proper chill is another man's tepid mess. sam can certainly walk through the thermodynamics of the situation, but if you use a chilled mixing glass, you better stir for a longer period of time to get adequate dilution. your end result will be much, much colder than if using room temperature glass.

so i use chilled pints at work. and they can really chill things down really quick even with not so ideal ice. so to make something with comparable dilution to normal i'd have to let it sit for a few seconds or so and dilute.

well i'm primarily mixing manhattans. and i only have overholt at 80 proof. i'd like to give that more concentrated higher proof rittenhouse feel. is it appropriate to just let my drinks "cook" less. i try to do the same with 80 proof gins to increase their proof and intensity... i don't do this for every drink but there are lots of times when i want a higher proof feel...

a viable technique?

I've moved this over from the thread on cocktail strainers.

Absolutely it makes sense to vary the amount of dilution according to the proof of your ingredients. You might want more dilution when the ingredients are high proof and less dilution when the ingredients are lower proof.

This is only possible, however, if you have the ability to chill the lower proof drink sufficiently with a relatively low amount of dilution. This will depend on some combination of equipment and ice. If the mixing vessel is cold, and especially if it has a high thermal capacity, and your ice is cold, you are ahead of the game. You can further enhance your chances by using larger pieces of ice. All of these things, in different ways, can contribute to a situation where the low temperature is reached before the desired minimum dilution is reached -- meaning that you are primarily controlling dilution by stirring the drink and deciding when to strain it off the ice. If your primary task in making a stirred drink is chilling the drink, your ability to control dilution is reduced.

[MattJohnson]

Absolutely it makes sense to vary the amount of dilution according to the proof of your ingredients.  You might want more dilution when the ingredients are high proof and less dilution when the ingredients are lower proof.

This is only possible, however, if you have the ability to chill the lower proof drink sufficiently with a relatively low amount of dilution.  This will depend on some combination of equipment and ice.  If the mixing vessel is cold, and especially if it has a high thermal capacity, and your ice is cold, you are ahead of the game.  You can further enhance your chances by using larger pieces of ice.  All of these things, in different ways, can contribute to a situation where the low temperature is reached before the desired minimum dilution is reached -- meaning that you are primarily controlling dilution by stirring the drink and deciding when to strain it off the ice.  If your primary task in making a stirred drink is chilling the drink, your ability to control dilution is reduced.

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What you're saying makes sense. You can always dilute more with agitation and time. With my materials, I've managed to find what I think is the sweet spot where the dilution/chill factor work out for my tastes. But I think I'll try to start chilling my mixing material and see what happens. I'll also try mixing in the tins and compare.

edit to add, the only other thing I have to manage now is my freezer space. there isn't much!

Edited December 11, 2008 by MattJohnson (log)

[brinza]

For stirred drinks and drinks calling for cracked ice, I've been using these:

http://homebarsupplys.com/mix_pro_ice_cubes.html

Granted, the claims they make in their ad copy are probably inaccurate*; for example, I don't think these cubes are suitable for shaking, but for stirring, they've been working quite well. I haven't tried them in a blender yet.

*The claims regarding durability and being odor-free, however, are spot-on.

[Chris Hennes]

Do you all use long-handled bar spoons for stirring? I'm a complete amateur and have difficulty getting the appropriate swirl action going with the spoon, so I've taken to using a chopstick instead, which I have an easier time maneuvering around in the glass. What's the trick to using a spoon and not getting it caught up with the cubes and chipping them?

[slkinsey]

There's nothing magical about a spoon. In fact, a rod may be a better stirring implement.

[Alcuin]

Do you all use long-handled bar spoons for stirring? I'm a complete amateur and have difficulty getting the appropriate swirl action going with the spoon, so I've taken to using a chopstick instead, which I have an easier time maneuvering around in the glass. What's the trick to using a spoon and not getting it caught up with the cubes and chipping them?

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I think the trick is to keep the back of the spoon against the mixing glass as you stir by rotating it slightly as you revolve around the glass. You can probably learn if you want by watching somebody who's really good at it. Here's a video with some sweet stirring technique that features Donbert making a Benton's Old Fashioned:

.

Good stirring technique might not be essential since as slkinsey notes, a stirring rod works just as well as a spoon (even if it is not as useful for other things). It does allow you however to show off your moves though, since there's nothing cooler than super silent stirring. It just takes a lot of practice.

[thirtyoneknots]

Do you all use long-handled bar spoons for stirring? I'm a complete amateur and have difficulty getting the appropriate swirl action going with the spoon, so I've taken to using a chopstick instead, which I have an easier time maneuvering around in the glass. What's the trick to using a spoon and not getting it caught up with the cubes and chipping them?

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My "trick" is to use the handle of the spoon instead of the bowl, in fact, especially at home, I use the business end of the spoon very little.

[MattJohnson]

Do you all use long-handled bar spoons for stirring? I'm a complete amateur and have difficulty getting the appropriate swirl action going with the spoon, so I've taken to using a chopstick instead, which I have an easier time maneuvering around in the glass. What's the trick to using a spoon and not getting it caught up with the cubes and chipping them?

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I think the trick is not holding tight to the spoon shaft. You need to let the spoon rotate itself around the contour of the glass. Just grip the spoon lightly, and start stirring and the whole spoon will rotate.