Shokupan (white sandwich bread) recipe

[sanrensho]

Congratulations, sanrensho!  But no photo?

←

No photos! I badly misjudged my portions and ended up with a regular loaf (non-Pullman) and a dwarf Pullman made by placing a baking sheet over the loaf pan. Next time I'll weigh and try to post photos once I have a presentable loaf.

[shinju]

Congratulations, sanrensho!  But no photo?

←

No photos! I badly misjudged my portions and ended up with a regular loaf (non-Pullman) and a dwarf Pullman made by placing a baking sheet over the loaf pan. Next time I'll weigh and try to post photos once I have a presentable loaf.

←

You have inspired me to make this bread. I buy raisin bread from the Cherry Bakery here in the Bay Area, CA and it is one of my favorite bread. Very different from regular raisin bread in the U.S and toasts beautifully with soft, chewy mouthfeel and nicely toasted surface unlike American raisin bread that toasts up very dry throughout.

[GlorifiedRice]

http://wlteef.blogspot.com/2007/06/hokkaido-milk-loaf.html

I dont know if this is Shokupan, but its the same pan and a recipe

[sanrensho]

^^^Somebody else posted a similar recipe. I would categorize these as a sub-set of shokupan, specifically "milk (cream) bread." The texture is a little different from what I associate with everyday shokupan, the results are much fluffier. Regular shokupan uses mostly water.

Shinju, did you have any luck with your shokupan? My breadmaking has ground to a halt with the hot weather we've been experiencing.

[shinju]

^^^Somebody else posted a similar recipe. I would categorize these as a sub-set of shokupan, specifically "milk (cream) bread." The texture is a little different from what I associate with everyday shokupan, the results are much fluffier. Regular shokupan uses mostly water.

Shinju, did you have any luck with your shokupan? My breadmaking has ground to a halt with the hot weather we've been experiencing.

←

Yes, I acutally made the bread last week but was too embarrased to show photos. I used the pan with it's own metal top and that was a big mistake on my part. I should have left the top off completely. My bread rose way too much and stuck to the top while baking. I could not pull it off smoothly. Also, having the top on, I think the timing needs to be increased. My bread was almost there as far as the taste the coloring, but not quite. It needs perhaps 10-15 more minutes of baking. Because of the top on, I could not judge it's appearance while baking at all. The taste the texture was quite good. I'm going to attempt this bread this week and will report back again.

[shinju]

Congratulations, sanrensho!  But no photo?

←

No photos! I badly misjudged my portions and ended up with a regular loaf (non-Pullman) and a dwarf Pullman made by placing a baking sheet over the loaf pan. Next time I'll weigh and try to post photos once I have a presentable loaf.

←

Ok, I had a second go at this recipe and again, I ran into problems. The dough is very, very wet. Not sure if that's how it supposed to be, but I had to add maybe 1/2 C or more flour while kneading. Even then, it was quite wet and slack. Very hard to work with.

Another thing I noticed with this dough is that it was gassing a lot. Lots of small and large holes. I haven't seen that before when making breads. I decided to go ahead and bake it anyway. Knowing I had more dough than needed from my first attempt, I deleted 1/3 of dough to make Japanese style kanimayo pan (crab and mayo bread). I had some crab I needed to use from last night's meal. I also added some camenbert and dill to the mix.

I was very happy with the results of kanimayo pan. Only thing I would do differently next time will be making a small indention and forming a dough more around the filling. For these, I just placed the filling on top.

This is what the dough looks like. See how slack it is:

I placed the crab/mayo/camenbert filling on top. Letting it rise a bit more.

Results of kanimayo pan - a closeup.

To celebrate the success of these, I had a glass of wine with it. Delish!

The bread resting

The final result. The bread stuck to sides again. Not sure why. I did oil the pan but perhaps it's because it's very wet? Perhaps it needs some flour after oiling? The taste is good (perhaps need a bit more sugar). The texture is almost there, but not quite.

When it comes to bread making, I usually have to make several attempts before I'm happy with the results and this is no exception.

[sanrensho]

Ok, I had a second go at this recipe and again, I ran into problems.  The dough is very, very wet.  Not sure if that's how it supposed to be, but I had to add maybe 1/2 C or more flour while kneading.  Even then, it was quite wet and slack.  Very hard to work with. 

I didn't consider the dough to be that slack, but I've gotten used to working with slack doughs (pourable like foccacia), so my perspective may be warped. I would say my dough was even slacker than pictured in your first photo. Did you knead in a mixer? I know that particular Pullman recipe is designed to be mixed using a bread machine (or mixer), so the slackness would be a non-issue.

I didn't notice any more gassing or bubbles than usual, but the one loaf that I baked without a cover did have unwanted holes. Still, it looks like you got an even texture with your loaf, no?

The kanimayo buns look great!

[shinju]

Ok, I had a second go at this recipe and again, I ran into problems.  The dough is very, very wet.  Not sure if that's how it supposed to be, but I had to add maybe 1/2 C or more flour while kneading.  Even then, it was quite wet and slack.  Very hard to work with. 

I didn't consider the dough to be that slack, but I've gotten used to working with slack doughs (pourable like foccacia), so my perspective may be warped. I would say my dough was even slacker than pictured in your first photo. Did you knead in a mixer? I know that particular Pullman recipe is designed to be mixed using a bread machine (or mixer), so the slackness would be a non-issue.

I didn't notice any more gassing or bubbles than usual, but the one loaf that I baked without a cover did have unwanted holes. Still, it looks like you got an even texture with your loaf, no?

The kanimayo buns look great!

←

Sliced the bread lastnight and this morning I made a toast with it. My impression at this point after letting the bread rest is that I think this bread has lots going for it with some minor changes. These changes may be due to my own taste preference, etc. Also, possible that I made some minor mistakes with weighing of ingredients. I would reduce the amount of salt next time - I can taste too much salt. I also added 1/2 cup more flour to the recipe because it was so wet that I could not work it at all.

After letting it sit overnight I realize this bread really resembles challah bread that I buy at our local Japanese market. It is more moist than challah though. The crumb is wonderful but bread itself is moist. But because it is moist, it toasts up great with lots of nice crunch (just like having some moisture settle, food fries up better). I like how the crumb tear - more like pull. Overall, thank you for sharing this recipe Sanrensho. I plan to work it more.

[stephle]

I also made this bread (apologies, I always forget to bring my camera out

It was lovely but still lacking that lovely light as air quality the bread I get at Mitsuwa has.

But that being said, it made beautiful egg salad sandwiches-enough tooth so that the sandwich didn't completely fall apart and IMHO a perfect foil for the eggy salad with the bit of Coleman's mustard I added.

I'd definitely make it again, but next time I'll only make 1/2 the recipe (2lbs of one kind of bread is too much for my small household of two).

[sanrensho]

I'd definitely make it again, but next time I'll only make 1/2 the recipe (2lbs of one kind of bread is too much for my small household of two).

←

Freeze one loaf! Or freeze half the dough.

[stephle]

I'd definitely make it again, but next time I'll only make 1/2 the recipe (2lbs of one kind of bread is too much for my small household of two).

←

Freeze one loaf! Or freeze half the dough.

←

Yes--you're absolutely right, I'll freeze the other half of the dough. No sense in making a mess for only one loaf when a second can be ready in a few hours without the mess

What's funny is that I used a little dough conditioner in it, which I've never used before -- basically got some lecithin and ginger in it and claims to help make the dough rise better and keep longer. I put the second loaf in a ziplock bag 10 days ago then into the fridge -- yesterday was out of bread and pulled it out and it was suprisingly fresh. Considering the amount of fresh milk, cream and whatnot, this was really interesting

I need to test that dough improver again because it could be a winner

[YSC]

Hello! I'm new to eGullet but I'm very excited to read all the interesting and useful information that people have been sharing. I lived in Japan for a few years as a child and still enjoy cooking Japanese food for my family. I have two questions:

1. Can you make shoku pan in a breadmaker? I am seriously considering buying the Zojirushi mini bread maker if it will help me make shoku pan. My kids are addicted to it and I've been buying wholemeal shoku pan for them which is both pricey and inconvenient as it's only available 2 days a week.

2. Does anyone have a good wholemeal shoku pan recipe?

Thanks!

[sanrensho]

Hello!  I'm new to eGullet but I'm very excited to read all the interesting and useful information that people have been sharing.  I lived in Japan for a few years as a child and still enjoy cooking Japanese food for my family.  I have two questions:

1.  Can you make shoku pan in a breadmaker?  I am seriously considering buying the Zojirushi mini bread maker if it will help me make shoku pan.  My kids are addicted to it and I've been buying wholemeal shoku pan for them which is both pricey and inconvenient as it's only available 2 days a week.

2.  Does anyone have a good wholemeal shoku pan recipe?

Thanks!

←

I've never worked with a breadmaker, so I won't comment on that. Except that one of the Japanese sites I linked to above relies on a breadmaker for mixing, but not shaping or baking.

For a whole wheat recipe, I would start with a good white recipe and substitute with percentages of whole wheat. Work up from there. That is how I convert white recipes to whole wheat.

15% whole wheat might be a good starting point. Keep adding incrementally with successive batches until you are happy with the percentage. Having a scale helps tremendously of course.

Edited February 27, 2009 by sanrensho (log)

[prasantrin]

I took a bread baking class in Japan, and the whole wheat shokupan was more or less just white bread that had wheat bran added to it. Most of the "whole wheat" breads in Japan are like that, at least the ones available in supermarkets. Whole wheat flour isn't readily available.

[sanrensho]

Also, we don't know what percentage of whole wheat the current bread you buy uses, so you will have to experiment if you want to match that.

[YSC]

Thanks everyone for the helpful info. I went to Mitsuwa today and saw they had the Zojirushi mini breadmaker for sale so I took the opportunity to read the enclosed recipes for bread. They have basic white/wholemeal bread and also "soft" white/wholemeal bread. I wonder whether the soft bread would be equivalent to shokupan? The ingredient list had flour and butter but I don't think they had any egg or bread improver mentioned.

I also wonder whether I can use the bread maker to mix the dough for soft Japanese pan, like raisin rolls and kani-tobiko-mayo bread (I just ate that today -- it was sooo rich but absolutely delicious. I only meant to eat half but before I realized it, it was all gone )

[sanrensho]

They have basic white/wholemeal bread and also "soft" white/wholemeal bread.  I wonder whether the soft bread would be equivalent to shokupan?  The ingredient list had flour and butter but I don't think they had any egg or bread improver mentioned. 

I also wonder whether I can use the bread maker to mix the dough for soft Japanese pan, like raisin rolls and kani-tobiko-mayo bread

Shokupan simply means toast or sandwich bread, so it can span the gamut from milk breads to relatively lean breads with no eggs or milk, and breads that contain eggs.

Having said that, I most often associate with shokupan with a relatively lean bread that may contain some (not all) amount of milk or skim milk powder. Sometimes eggs, sometimes not. And the most distinguishing feature for me is the light texture, the way it pulls apart into strands without being sticky or heavy.

So, again, the recipe you are shooting for will depend on the particular type of shokupan that you eat regularly. None of us have tasted the particular shokupan that your bakery produces, and whether it uses eggs or not, milk or skim milk powder, amount of fats/sugar, etc. There are tons of shokupan recipes out there so you will have to experiment.

Yes, you should be able to use the breadmaker to mix various types of soft doughs, but I wonder if you wouldn't be better served by a more versatile stand mixer. Particularly if you are only going to use the breadmaker for its mixing capabilities.

Edited March 3, 2009 by sanrensho (log)

[YSC]

Hi Sanrensho,

Thanks for getting back to me. The shokupan we buy is pretty "typical" regular shokupan -- very much like your description of a lean, fluffy white bread. In this case, they also make a wholewheat version but now that I think about it, it is probably what Prasantrin mentioned -- possibly just wheat bran added... I don't have the exact proportions because I don't happen to have a loaf in the house right now, but I'm pretty sure that it has no egg in it. I was just wondering about that because previous posters had talked about challah in comparison to shokupan.

Like you said, it's soft and pulls apart easily. Perhaps if I do go ahead and get the bread maker I will try the included recipe first to see if it works. I did consider the standing mixer but have no space for it. The bread maker seems like it would also help with the rise times etc. so I wouldn't have to rush back to tend to it.

My sister in Singapore just did an experiment for me in which she used a shokupan recipe for a 1.5 lb loaf in her 2lb bread maker. The recipe (which was published in Singapore) called for bread improver but she skipped it because I told her I wasn't sure I could get any here. She said it worked quite well although because it baked in her bread maker and not in a loaf tin with lid, it rose up really high and fluffy and filled the whole 2lb pan. I wonder if I make it (assuming I get the 1lb Zojirushi) whether I can just halve the 1.5 lb recipe? As you can probably tell, I have very little experience with bread making...

[kirsch]

Glad to have found this thread!

I was given a pullman pan, and had made an attempt at shokupan using a pain de mie recipe (soft bread, wrong crumb, and top crust stuck to the lid despite oiling). Recent venture to a local Japanese bakery for wonderful shokupan has renewed my interested in making use of this pullman pan. I'll probably give one of the hokkaido milk bread recipes a try soon.

Another friend sent me this link: http://www.wretch.cc/blog/michelle212/21430881

It looks like it has the light, minimal crust, and a wonderful stretchy crumb. But I can't read more than 5% of the words. If that. Though was told something about being using a mixer and dough being too wet to knead by hand. Thought perhaps someone here might be interested as well.

[Blether]

I'm not keen on shokupan, but I was passing and I'll make a hit-and-run contribution

I have a National breadmaker. I love it. I particularly wanted to make wholewheat bread because it's so hard to find even in Tokyo, and even when you find it it's only some % wholewheat, not 100%.

I have made a plain white loaf from time to time - the various cycles give various results. These days I like to use the longest, 'fresh yeast' cycle (even though I use dry instant yeast), because longer raising times give the best flavour development. My favourite breadmaker product is a pizza dough (a bit wetter than a normal bread dough), which I take out after the 'pizza dough' cycle and then let develop for 4 hours at room temperature (the recipe book says 'use right away'). It makes superb pizza (with careful handling involving a lot of flour) and wonderful, light-as-a-feather, open, tasty French-style bread that you have to eat within a day to have it at its best.

For a breadmaker loaf, I find I can pretty much substitute wholewheat flour for white bread flour, weight for weight, in any percentage, and do so depending on my mood. The traditional rule of thumb for a bread dough is '2/3 hydration' (eg 500g flour with 333ml water) - the experts in the bread-baking sections of eGullet can tell you more about that.

Ironically I use the machine for convenience, but discovered I prefer a no-knead 100% wholewheat loaf when I can be bothered with lining loaf tins with paper, and washing an enormous mixing bowl.

Wholewheat flour can be had in many Tokyo supermarkets, but for prices like JPY400-800 per kilo. Shikisai ('four seasons') in Hokkaido sell 5kg packs from their web shop, as well as 5kg packs of strong ('Haruyutaka') and semi-strong ('Minorinooka') white bread flour from their web shop. If you order the optimum quantity at once, it works out, for example, just under JPY220/kg for wholewheat flour. You need written Japanese to buy from them.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Blether (log)

[helenjp]

Woah - I see you've been doing the same calculations that I've been doing!

That's a good price (6120 yen / 25 kg) on Hokkaido bread flour. I think the Haruyutaka blend is probably the same thing I'm buying from Hokkaido no Megumi (7,400 yen for 25 kg in 5 kg bags, cheaper than 1 big bag).

I had heard that the demand for Hokkaido bread flour is predictably impossible to fill with single-cultivar wheats, and that lower-protein flours (Hokushin etc as listed on the Shikisai site) plus gluten are being blended into the popular cultivars like Haruyutaka. This move is being criticized by home bakers, but the result is affordable, and since whole wheat bread flour disappeared off my supermarket shelves, acceptable.

Do you think these whole wheat flours are more finely ground than the average supermarket flour? I think that's why they can be handled just like white wheat. I'm wondering if that's why they produce a better rise and softer texture...there seems to be a belief that Japanese housewives need a coarser ground flour so they won't have to struggle with lumps, but I thought that was just in the cheaper grades of "weak" flour.

"First powder" 25 kg wholewheat bread flour, under 5000 yen.

Tomizawa Canadian graham flour 25 kg for just over 5000 yen incld tax, and the Haruyutaka blend for the same price as Shikisai.

My favorite is Kida Seifun's K'Z whole wheat bread flour (which I also get from Hokkaido no Megumi...'fraid I bought their last though). It is coarse and doesn't rise too well, but makes a dark, tasty bread.

Talking of longer rise...I couldn't afford to run the oven every day for bread, but sometimes turn the breadmaker on with most of the flour and all of the water, let it run just till it's mixed, then dump the rest of the flour and yeast on top, and set it on timer, to allow the unleavened dough to ripen a bit.

[Blether]

Hi, Helen. I really did do a 'hit and run' on this thread, and so never saw your post till now

Do you think these whole wheat flours are more finely ground than the average supermarket flour? I think that's why they can be handled just like white wheat. I'm wondering if that's why they produce a better rise and softer texture...there seems to be a belief that Japanese housewives need a coarser ground flour so they won't have to struggle with lumps, but I thought that was just in the cheaper grades of "weak" flour.

I think they're about the same as I've seen in the supermarkets. They are finer, I believe, than what I remember from the UK, but quite a bit coarser than the atta flour I've had from Indian grocers, which is so finely ground as to be blended into a single colour. I honestly don't know about the straight weight-for-weight thing: I was cautious when I started doing it, but with the two particular flours (both Sikisai) that's how it worked out.

I'm having trouble picturing the average Japanese housewife appreciating coarser flour, what with the national appetite for everything soft and "fuwa-fuwa" fluffy !

Strangely, I'm writing this having just last week received a first order of flours from Tomizawa, following your suggestions in a later conversation: I went for Canada 100%, no additive strong white flour, the same (IIRC) in wholewheat flour, and some Camelia strong for a lower-power white. So far I've successfully made a long-rise loaf with the Canadian white 100 (with a good bit more water than with Haruyutaka, and forming a browner crust more quickly), but haven't tried the others.

I do like a coarse w/w flour loaf, so Kida Mills' is definitely on my list when I get through what I have. And I do like your idea for getting more flavour using the wee machine. I'll be trying that, but I'm thinking I'll do it with the yeast in from the start.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Blether (log)