Jump to content

  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Momofuku Ko (Part 1)

BryanZ

By BryanZ
in New York: Dining

 Share

Recommended Posts

Jesikka

Jesikka

Posted
Posted
My feeling is that you can already get "Momofuku style korean influenced haute cuisine of four star level," at Momofuku Ssam Bar. That is precisely the Momofuku miracle. But hey, maybe the food is even better at Ko. We'll see.

I'll stay away from new-paradigm discussion on this topic since we have a topic dedicated to that.

As good as the food at Ssam is, I just don't think it's four star food. Not because of tastiness, but because of the level of refinement. I don't think it's trying to be. It's L'Ami Jean to L'Arpege or something. In my mind it's not a question of better but of style, plating, etc. Some of the dishes at Ssam could clearly be reworked as four star dishes and some might fit right into a menu, but it's just not in that style/method overall. It has nothing to do with quality (though it might have a touch to do with haute ingredients).

This is like a fight that Nathan and I have about Sripraphai where he argues that it's a three star restaurant because there are three star dishes on it. I have no doubt that Tipmanee can cook three star food, but that doesn't make Sripraphai a three star restaurant.

Anyway, this doesn't need to be a star discussion either. I'll post my thoughts on the food after Sunday.

ulterior epicure

ulterior epicure

Posted
Posted
My feeling is that you can already get "Momofuku style korean influenced haute cuisine of four star level," at Momofuku Ssam Bar. That is precisely the Momofuku miracle. But hey, maybe the food is even better at Ko. We'll see.

I'll stay away from new-paradigm discussion on this topic since we have a topic dedicated to that.

As good as the food at Ssam is, I just don't think it's four star food. Not because of tastiness, but because of the level of refinement. I don't think it's trying to be. It's L'Ami Jean to L'Arpege or something. In my mind it's not a question of better but of style, plating, etc. Some of the dishes at Ssam could clearly be reworked as four star dishes and some might fit right into a menu, but it's just not in that style/method overall. It has nothing to do with quality (though it might have a touch to do with haute ingredients).

This is like a fight that Nathan and I have about Sripraphai where he argues that it's a three star restaurant because there are three star dishes on it. I have no doubt that Tipmanee can cook three star food, but that doesn't make Sripraphai a three star restaurant.

Anyway, this doesn't need to be a star discussion either. I'll post my thoughts on the food after Sunday.

Well, if there's a critic who might be willing to push that kind of (4-star for Ko) precedent, it would be Bruni.

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

My flickr account

ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

oakapple

oakapple

Posted
Posted
My feeling is that you can already get "Momofuku style korean influenced haute cuisine of four star level," at Momofuku Ssam Bar. That is precisely the Momofuku miracle.

It may well be that if you string together a meal with Ssam Bar's best offerings at any given time, and ignore the service and ambiance issues, perhaps it is a four-star experience (though I have never been persuaded of that).

But there's an awful lot on the menu there that, however tasty it may be, isn't four-star food by any rational measure. And I do believe that for a restaurant to get four stars, there needs to be a high probability that you'll have a four-star experience practically no matter what you order.

I mean, there are only 5 four-star restaurants in New York. I'm sure there are plenty of others that, if you order right, are capable putting out a meal better than the average at Jean Georges. But the measure of a restaurant is the overall level of everything they serve, not merely the best handful of things that they serve.

So it would seem to me that, unless Chang is crazy, he ought to be able to increase the "average" significantly by serving only one set menu to 14 people at a time.

Marc Shepherd

http://nyjournal.squarespace.com/

donbert

donbert

Posted
Posted (edited)

First a couple corrections:

1.) Yes, it is in fact Hackleback and not Ostera.

2.) The onions on the same dish were "soubise" not "sous-vide".

I think that spaetzle_maker's assessment of Ko is the most on point. While it's going to be impossible for folks to stop comparing Ko to Ssam Bar it is as useless a comparison as the Noodle Bar vs Ssam Bar debate. Each of the 3 Momofukus have their own vision that they execute with the same level of skill, enthusiasm, and attention to detail. If you're expecting Ko to be "Ssam Bar on steroids" you will be as disappointed as you would be were you to go to Ssam Bar expecting it to be Noodle Bar on steroids. (Besides does Ssam Bar really need steroids?)

As far as stars or new paradigms are concerned I think that they just distract you from the food. The only thing stars have done for me is made it harder to get into places and the day I start going restaurants looking for new paradigms someone needs to put me out of my misery.

Edited by donbert (log)
flickr
spaetzle_maker

spaetzle_maker

Posted
Posted
First a couple corrections:

2.) The onions on the same dish were "soubise" not "sous-vide".

Thanks Donbert! Looked "soubise" up on wikipedia and that term definitely is making more sense with regards to the onions than "sous-vide"! :)

donbert

donbert

Posted
Posted

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is how great the wine/sake pairing was. I wish I had taken note of what they were pouring because they had obviously taken the same great care in selecting the wines and sakes as they did preparing the food. Each pairing worked on multiple levels with the individual components and each dish as a whole.

If I had to sum up the whole Ko experience in a single word it would be Gestalt.

flickr
ulterior epicure

ulterior epicure

Posted
Posted
But there's an awful lot on the menu there that, however tasty it may be, isn't four-star food by any rational measure. And I do believe that for a restaurant to get four stars, there needs to be a high probability that you'll have a four-star experience practically no matter what you order.

I would agree with this.

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

My flickr account

ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

ulterior epicure

ulterior epicure

Posted
Posted

So, the hardest table in town to get? I'll let you decide: Eater reveals the online reservation interface.

It looks like they're staggering by 15 minute increments. So, if you're the first (or last) party, presumably, you have a small window of time where the staff is entirely devoted to you...

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

My flickr account

ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

Dave H

Dave H

Posted
Posted

The original idea, per the Grub Street post announcing the late-night menu at Ssam Bar, seems to have been to do a single-seating, 4-person chef's table at SB. And you thought Ko reservations are going to be difficult!

(The point is the idea has been kicking around for at least as long as Ssam Bar's been open; it's the success of the former-late-night menu that wasn't part of the original plan.)

kathryn

kathryn

Posted
Posted

The two wine pairings that I remember are the Iporos Rioja (with the fried shortribs) and the Masumi Okuden Kantsukuri "Mirror of Truth" Junmai Sake (can't remember what course this was with, but it was the second sake of the evening).

"I'll put anything in my mouth twice." -- Ulterior Epicure
spaetzle_maker

spaetzle_maker

Posted
Posted
The two wine pairings that I remember are the Iporos Rioja (with the fried shortribs) and the Masumi Okuden Kantsukuri "Mirror of Truth" Junmai Sake (can't remember what course this was with, but it was the second sake of the evening).

Was it with the shaved fois? I remember the shaved fois being paired with a sake.

kathryn

kathryn

Posted
Posted

Possibly. I was so busy with the food I ignored most of the wine unless prodded.

Iporos Rioja Crianza Vendimia 2004, says the fiance, although that spelling may not be exact (messy handwriting transcription).

"I'll put anything in my mouth twice." -- Ulterior Epicure
BryanZ

BryanZ

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

I'm aimlessly speculating that momofukuko.com will be the website. When it drops, no one knows. Or at least not me.

The thought crossed my mind to buy the domains koreservations.com and momofukuko.net and post all kinds of fake stuff just for pure entertainment value. Though that wouldn't be very nice.

Bryan Zupon

Twitter

ZKitchen

eG Foodblog

Las Vegas

Spring Break in Europe

Summer in Europe

Mexico

Fat Guy

Fat Guy

Posted
Posted
well, Reichl's take is now up at Gourmet (linked too by Eater)...she certainly seems to think so.

at least two more egullet members are dining there tomorrow night (alas, I am not among them).  and at least 4 already have.

A couple of quibbles with Reichl's writeup, which is here

First, I love all these protestations about egalitarianism while at the same time Ruth Reichl, Ed Levine, etc., are being taken through the restaurant for previews. It will be amusing to watch for further cracks in that system.

Second, Reichl refers to "An egg (cooked sous vide)." So was the egg placed in a vacuum pouch ("sous vide" = "under gas") or was it really just slow-cooked in a water bath? The "sous-vide egg" misnomer probably shouldn't be perpetuated by a source at the level of Gourmet.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Nathan

Nathan

Posted
Posted
I'm aimlessly speculating that momofukuko.com will be the website.  When it drops, no one knows.  Or at least not me.

The thought crossed my mind to buy the domains koreservations.com and momofukuko.net and post all kinds of fake stuff just for pure entertainment value.  Though that wouldn't be very nice.

some of those were purchased today.

Dave H

Dave H

Posted
Posted (edited)
I'm aimlessly speculating that momofukuko.com will be the website.  When it drops, no one knows.  Or at least not me.

The thought crossed my mind to buy the domains koreservations.com and momofukuko.net and post all kinds of fake stuff just for pure entertainment value.  Though that wouldn't be very nice.

Someone seems to have had the same thought as you. momofukuko.com was registered today by some dude on the UWS. I'm almost positive this is not where the reservation system is going. koreservations.com, on the other hand, is still not registered.

I'm with Fat Guy--they'll put in another option on momofuku.com.

Edited by Dave H (log)
johnder

johnder

Posted
Posted
I'm aimlessly speculating that momofukuko.com will be the website.  When it drops, no one knows.  Or at least not me.

The thought crossed my mind to buy the domains koreservations.com and momofukuko.net and post all kinds of fake stuff just for pure entertainment value.  Though that wouldn't be very nice.

Someone seems to have had the same thought as you. momofukuko.com was registered today by some dude on the UWS. I'm almost positive this is not where the reservation system is going. koreservations.com, on the other hand, is still not registered.

I'm with Fat Guy--they'll put in another option on momofuku.com.

But if you look at the ip's where momofuku and momofukuko.com are registered, it is within the same "class b" address space.

momofukuko.com is 74.208.88.51

momofuku.com is 74.208.86.109

It also is throwing very similar 404 pages

example:

momofuku 404 page

momofukuko.com 404 page

The odds of someone registering a domain and hosting it at the same hosting provider as momofuku.com is pretty slim. I think it is probably legit.

John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2

--

I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

BryanZ

BryanZ

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
I'm aimlessly speculating that momofukuko.com will be the website.  When it drops, no one knows.  Or at least not me.

The thought crossed my mind to buy the domains koreservations.com and momofukuko.net and post all kinds of fake stuff just for pure entertainment value.  Though that wouldn't be very nice.

Someone seems to have had the same thought as you. momofukuko.com was registered today by some dude on the UWS. I'm almost positive this is not where the reservation system is going. koreservations.com, on the other hand, is still not registered.

I'm with Fat Guy--they'll put in another option on momofuku.com.

But if you look at the ip's where momofuku and momofukuko.com are registered, it is within the same "class b" address space.

momofukuko.com is 74.208.88.51

momofuku.com is 74.208.86.109

It also is throwing very similar 404 pages

example:

momofuku 404 page

momofukuko.com 404 page

The odds of someone registering a domain and hosting it at the same hosting provider as momofuku.com is pretty slim. I think it is probably legit.

My programmer friend said the exact same thing.

Bryan Zupon

Twitter

ZKitchen

eG Foodblog

Las Vegas

Spring Break in Europe

Summer in Europe

Mexico

Dave H

Dave H

Posted
Posted
I'm aimlessly speculating that momofukuko.com will be the website.  When it drops, no one knows.  Or at least not me.

The thought crossed my mind to buy the domains koreservations.com and momofukuko.net and post all kinds of fake stuff just for pure entertainment value.  Though that wouldn't be very nice.

Someone seems to have had the same thought as you. momofukuko.com was registered today by some dude on the UWS. I'm almost positive this is not where the reservation system is going. koreservations.com, on the other hand, is still not registered.

I'm with Fat Guy--they'll put in another option on momofuku.com.

But if you look at the ip's where momofuku and momofukuko.com are registered, it is within the same "class b" address space.

momofukuko.com is 74.208.88.51

momofuku.com is 74.208.86.109

It also is throwing very similar 404 pages

example:

momofuku 404 page

momofukuko.com 404 page

The odds of someone registering a domain and hosting it at the same hosting provider as momofuku.com is pretty slim. I think it is probably legit.

Oh, that's interesting...

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...