Momofuku Ko (Part 1)

[spaetzle_maker]

hrm, maybe it was 14.  After making a little diagram to help me figure out where I was sitting and the seats around me I think there were 11 along the wall and 3 across the front now.

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I've been trying to figure it out by counting the faces I recognized and then counting the people between those faces that I didn't recognize

There were two across the front - I was sitting there with one other person. I'm remembering eleven people sitting along the wall, but I believe there was one empty stool on the end closest to the door.

[kathryn]

http://flickr.com/photos/kathryn/2309788460/

[BryanZ]

Though I have the utmost respect for Chef Chang and co., what makes this place that fundamentally different than, say, Degustation?

I haven't tried any of the food, but the aesthetic seems similar, if only slanted slightly toward Asian cuisine rather than Spanish. In terms of price point, it seems to fit in nicely between Degustatation and l'Atelier.

[oakapple]

Though I have the utmost respect for Chef Chang and co., what makes this place that fundamentally different than, say, Degustation?

I haven't tried any of the food, but the aesthetic seems similar, if only slanted slightly toward Asian cuisine rather than Spanish.  In terms of price point, it seems to fit in nicely between Degustatation and l'Atelier.

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In terms of ambiance, I had the same reaction: it's very similar to Degustation, though with not as many seats. One big difference, as I understand it, is that Ko will serve multi-course tasting menus only, whereas Degustation lets the diner construct the meal from a succession of small plates à la carte.

[Fat Guy]

As far as I can tell at least three people posting here have dined at Momofuku Ko. So, is the food any good?

[Sneakeater]

Another difference is that you can get IN to Degustation.

(Seriously, though, aside from the big difference oakapple noted, isn't the difference that Wesley Genovart cooks at Degustation and Peter Serpico cooks here? I mean, the whole concept doesn't have to be unique. Just the food.)

[Nathan]

well, Reichl's take is now up at Gourmet (linked too by Eater)...she certainly seems to think so.

at least two more egullet members are dining there tomorrow night (alas, I am not among them). and at least 4 already have.

[Sneakeater]

Actually, they got bumped to Sunday.

[oakapple]

(Seriously, though, aside from the big difference oakapple noted, isn't the difference that Wesley Genovart cooks at Degustation and Peter Serpico cooks here?  I mean, the whole concept doesn't have to be unique.  Just the food.)

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Well...yeah, it's like saying that Gramercy Tavern and Irving Mill are the identical concept, but for the small detail that GT is one of the finest restaurants in the country, and Irving Mill is not.

I'm not suggesting that Ko will be another Gramercy Tavern—that remains to be proved—only that it could be.

[donbert]

As far as I can tell at least three people posting here have dined at Momofuku Ko. So, is the food any good?

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Yes.

[Fat Guy]

So, what makes it good? Adjusting for previews by assuming it will get a little better, is it going to be better than what I can get at Momofuku Sssam Bar if I order the tasting menu there? Or does Ssam Bar's food already represent the pinnacle of what the Chang organization can create?

[ulterior epicure]

Only 14 seats?  wow...good luck eating there anytime soon.  Sounds vaguely familiar to what Schwa in Chicago was like.

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Except schwa had twice as many seats. minibar in D.C. has six.

[ulterior epicure]

I have heard from multiple sources (including what Reichl reported) that the poached egg dish was served with osetra caviar. I have also heard from one source that it was served with hackleback. There are a number of explanations for this:

1. They are serving different caviar to different diners, or

2. They are misleading (whether purposely or not, I don't know) some of the diners, or

3. They're not serving osetra or hackleback and are deceiving (whether purposely or not, I don't know) all (highly unlikely).

Anyone care to shed any light?

[oakapple]

Adjusting for previews by assuming it will get a little better, is it going to be better than what I can get at Momofuku Sssam Bar if I order the tasting menu there?

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I haven't been there yet, but from the photos and various descriptions it certainly looks like Ko is aiming for a higher standard than Ssam Bar.

[Swicks]

Adjusting for previews by assuming it will get a little better, is it going to be better than what I can get at Momofuku Sssam Bar if I order the tasting menu there?

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I haven't been there yet, but from the photos and various descriptions it certainly looks like Ko is aiming for a higher standard than Ssam Bar.

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Looks like its in a similar vein but much more refined (based solely on reports and pictures)

[Fat Guy]

That's not the conclusion I reached looking at the photos. Those dishes all looked entirely within the capabilities of the Ssam Bar kitchen (indeed, as noted above, variants of several of these dishes have been served at Ssam Bar over the past few months). Maybe the portions in the Ko photos are smaller and the plate compositions slightly more precise, but that's about it.

I'm looking forward to trying the food at Ko one of these days, but the concept to me seems devolutionary. The brilliance of Ssam Bar is that it is a category-defining restaurant that merges haute and rustic in such an shamelessly postmodern manner that several of us feel strongly that it has created a paradigm shift in the restaurant universe. I've been as enthusiastic about the food at Ssam Bar and Noodle Bar as just about anybody, and have made the case that Ssam Bar is the best restaurant in New York right now, so I'm not saying that it would be a bad thing for the Chang team not to be able to cook food any better than what they're serving at Ssam Bar. It's already fantastic. But it won't get better by virtue of being put on smaller plates with dollops of caviar. And the main problem is that when you take Ssam Bar's food and you put it in this highly choreographed degustation format you've put the food back into a familiar context (you can get the whole restaurant-as-sushi-bar experience lots of places now) that I fear could ultimately be out of context to the Momofuku experience. Unless there's something unique about Ko that hasn't yet been explained, it seems to me that Chang has gone from innovator to imitator here.

[oakapple]

The brilliance of Ssam Bar is that it is a category-defining restaurant that merges haute and rustic in such an shamelessly postmodern manner that several of us feel strongly that it has created a paradigm shift in the restaurant universe.... (snip) And the main problem is that when you take Ssam Bar's food and you put it in this highly choreographed degustation format you've put the food back into a familiar context (you can get the whole restaurant-as-sushi-bar experience lots of places now) that I fear could ultimately be out of context to the Momofuku experience.

It's for precisely this reason that I was skeptical that any kind of paradigm shift had taken place. Ssam Bar could very well have been a one-off, and now Chang is doing something much closer to conventional.

Unless there's something unique about Ko that hasn't yet been explained, it seems to me that Chang has gone from innovator to imitator here.

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It may also be that he just doesn't have another Big Idea like that in his quiver. To be fair, how often do such ideas come along?

[robert40]

Could it be his original "Big Idea" was percieved as such by the dining public more then it was by Chang himself.

[oakapple]

Could it be his original "Big Idea" was percieved as such by the dining public more then it was by Chang himself.

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I think Chang knew he was pushing the edge of the envelope. He couldn't possibly have envisioned the kind of public reaction that he got.

[Nathan]

well Ssam Bar was a happy accident. that's simply it's history.

I had a conversation about a year ago which implied that Ko (or something like it) was conceived awhile ago.

I'm hopeful that it's Ssam Bar on steroids. the legitimate concern is that it's "merely" Ssam Bar with reservations and a required tasting menu.

[spaetzle_maker]

I thought the food at Ko was exquisite. I do agree that this food is within the reach of Ssam Bar, but both restaurants are functioning within vastly different parameters. The fact that Ko will have only 8 or so dishes on the menu a night will allow for a certain level of quality and attention to detail that may not be possible at restaurants with a much larger menu, serving 5 times as many diners. I think the comparison to Degustation is apt in terms of Ko's atmosphere. The plating style is slightly similar but definitely not the same. But, obviously the flavor profile is different and that's a huge difference. While I love Degustation (has anyone had that soft-scrambled duck egg? Oh. My. God.) , so far I think the food at Ko has more of a mind-blowing quality.

As far as the osetra/hackleback question: I'm the person asserting it was hackleback. This is based on how the dish was described when it was put down before me. I could not have misheard "hackleback" if "osetra" was said. But really, I don't see how it matters anyway. The worthiness of this restaurant is not determined by the specific variety of a dollop of caviar on one dish. In fact, I can't decide which component of that particular dish I liked the most: was it the luxurious, coddled egg? The pudding-like soubise onions? The tiny potato chips that didn't make a mess of crumbs or get stuck in the corners of my mouth? And yeah - that caviar was pretty darn nice, but my point is that every component of that dish was equally worthy of praise. There were about 80 other mouthfuls of incredible food in that meal besides the one dollop of caviar. Just ask Sneakeater - I walked 4 miles home after that dinner and I couldn't stop telling him about the shaved fois with lychee and pinenut brittle, or the fried apple pie! There's a lot of good stuff going on at Ko aside from caviar.

Edit: I didn't make sneakeater walk with me. I'm not cruel like that. I was talking to him on the phone.

Edited March 5, 2008 by spaetzle_maker (log)

[Jesikka]

My sense of Ko is that it's there for branding purposes, as well as serving more refined food (which is not necessarily better or worse than Ssam Bar). They have obviously been testing some of those dishes at Ssam Bar over the past 6 months, but as far as I know none have been on the menu and they haven't been offering them universally.

If they're serving four star food with a four person staff, no telephone, no tablecloths and 14 individuals sitting on stools, that would seem quite unique to me.

I absolutely cannot wait to taste the food on Sunday.

[Fat Guy]

If they're serving four star food with a four person staff, no telephone, no tablecloths and 14 individuals sitting on stools, that would seem quite unique to me.

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Those all seem like pretty minor variants on the counter-dining permutations currently available in New York (Degustation, Atelier, etc.) and elsewhere (e.g., Minibar in Washington, DC).

[Jesikka]

If they're serving four star food with a four person staff, no telephone, no tablecloths and 14 individuals sitting on stools, that would seem quite unique to me.

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Those all seem like pretty minor variants on the counter-dining permutations currently available in New York (Degustation, Atelier, etc.) and elsewhere (e.g., Minibar in Washington, DC).

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I don't think Degustation is serving haute cuisine. Atelier has a LOT more seats than Ko and a much more traditional service model. I've never managed to make it to Minibar, so I don't know much about it.

I never bought into this whole new paradigm thing, so I'm not really speaking to that. I do think that Momofuku style korean influenced haute cuisine of four star level would be speaking in a very different voice than anything we've seen in NY.

It remains to be seen whether this is four star food, but I presume that's the aim.

[Fat Guy]

My feeling is that you can already get "Momofuku style korean influenced haute cuisine of four star level," at Momofuku Ssam Bar. That is precisely the Momofuku miracle. But hey, maybe the food is even better at Ko. We'll see.

I'll stay away from new-paradigm discussion on this topic since we have a topic dedicated to that.