Sweet Wines

[Gavin Convery]

I love sweet wines and I'm always looking for something new to try. Does anyone have any suggestions to share, especially European wines as I may find it difficult to source US wines in the UK.

[Steve Klc]

I don't know about "new" to you, Gavin, but Canadian icewines were accepted into the EU last year so all sorts of sweet Ontario beauties should be available in the UK. (For all I know they've been in the UK all along.) Inniskillin would probably be the most accessible. For some instances I prefer the Vidal, for others the Riesling--rarely the more expensive oak-aged Gold label.

The Inniskillin Sparkling icewine is a gem.

I've also sampled about 15 other excellent Canadian icewines--and which may be more readily accessible to you in the UK than here in the US--where only Inniskillin has made substantial inroads.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Gavin - I'm going to keep away from the usual suspects. Of course there are great sweet wines like d'Yqueem or Huet. A personal favorite of mine is the Recioto from dal Forno Romano in Italy. The 1988 is a particularly good vintage for it as well. It's a red dessert wine and it is sort of like an Amarone but not as heavy. I find the wine to have truly amazing terroir with a real taste of the earth. I like a good Vin Santo as well and the Avignonesi in good years is terrific. In the U.S., and I'm not sure it's available in the U.K., Pelligrini Vineyards on the North Fork of Long Island makes a simple and delcicious dessert wine for about $30 a half bottle.

[Steve Klc]

The problem, Gavin, is most of our favorite American dessert wines are so limited in production it doesn't pay for most wineries to "sell" them or distribute them. I doubt you could get Chappellet or Navarro in the UK and I've mentioned these on the site often anyway.

Like Steve before me, I'll share some of my favorites from the past year or two which you might have access to in the UK:

two Australian wines stood out and each has received media acclaim--the Seppelt D.P. 57 Rutherglen Show Tokay (I had the 1996) and the Yalumba Museum Show Reserve Muscat;

I guess the Hungarian 1996 Royal Tokaji (Aszu 5 Puttonyos) would qualify as a usual suspect but was excellent and deep nonetheless;

To Steve's Italian suggestions I'd add a few lighter weight but inexpensive enjoyable wines: the 1997 Zeni Moscato Rosa Trentino, the 2000 Alto Adige Moscato Rosa, the 2000 Gatti Piero Brachetto and the 2001 Michele Chiarlo Nivole Moscato d'Asti. Very easily quaffed and nice dessert matches.

[MartyL]

In good vintages, like 95, 96 and 97, the various Coteaux du Layon bottlings by Pierre Bise can be really wonderful---a poor man's (ok, at $15-$20 per 500 ml bottle, not that poor) Quarts du Chaume.

[Jason Perlow]

I've never had a bad German Trockenbeerenauslese or Eiswein in my life. All of them are good.

[Vivian Mallinson]

My favourite sweet wine currently is from Jurancon. Good examples have a really refreshing acidity to balance the intense sweetness. If you're in the UK, Vine Trail in Bristol stock one which I enjoyed at a tasting but I can't remember what it's called.

I'm also fond of sweet Champagne and Gewurztraminer Vendages Tardives.

[LaNiña]

I love Jurancon too. And:

Mombazillac

Malvasia

sweet sherry (PX)

Muscato d'Asti

Muscat

[magnolia]

I haven't read previous threads on this so forgive me if I'm repeating someone else's suggestions - to add to the Italians, Maculan makes three sweet wines - the first two are affordable and not so hard to find - Dindarello about 10 quid a half bottle, and Torcolato at about 14. The best, however, which is only made in good years, is the Acini Nobili - nearly impossible to get and about 30 if you can. But outstanding, worth the effort- like liquid toffee but not cloying. If you see it on a restaurant menu, try it !

I am a sucker for almost anything Bonny Doon does, Vin de Glacière is no exception. And there seems to be a lot more of it on UK restaurant menus

than in the US (though it's not so easy to find in shops)

Steve Klc - I've heard of Navarro, but not Chappellet. Do tell? I'll be in NY next month and would love to try something new. Also I was under the impression that Rutherglen used a solera system, so non-vintage - you mentioned a '96. Am I missing something?

[rich]

DOLCE

[LaNiña]

DOLCE

Rich, "dolce" just means sweet. So dolce what?

[magnolia]

Now I'm in salivatory mode...it's all coming back to me like a sweet memory. Try to find some of the northern Rhônes - Yves Cuilleron's 'les ayguets' (see www.cuilleron.com) and Pierre Gaillard's Fleur d'Automne...these are very thick, gloopy wines reminiscent of Sauternes - slightly lighter with good acidity - and definitely a splurge, at between 25-35 for 50 cl.

[Bux]

In good vintages, like 95, 96 and 97, the various Coteaux du Layon bottlings by Pierre Bise can be really wonderful---a poor man's (ok, at $15-$20 per 500 ml bottle, not that poor) Quarts du Chaume.

I guess I was lucky to discover these with the 95 vintage. The Pierre Bise wines are wonderful, but there are other producers that are also worth knowing. Delesvaux comes to mind as we had some recently at Cafe Boulud in Manhattan. Quite good with an excellent friut and custard dessert. If you don't count the aperatif, the meal was bookended between two chenin blancs from almost opposite sides of the Loire. A very dry Savennieres with the appetizers and a nice Coteaux du Layon with the desserts.

I'd also consider looking at the Spanish wines for bargain dessert wines. I was impressed with the quality/price ration of some of the moscatels from Navarra Montecristo, Ochoa, Chivite and there's Casta Diva from Alicante, I believe. I don't find most of these in the US and in general the US mark up on Spanish wines, seems greater than on French wines.

Not long ago, we had a Brachetto (sp?) at Blue Hill. It's a very light fruity and pettilant red that went well with a light fruit soup/sorbet. Not a great wine in my opinion, but quite refreshingly wonderful on a summer evening with the right dessert. I don't know the price, but expect it is inexpensive.

At higher prices, Klc has good recs. The Seppelt D.P. 57 Rutherglen Show Tokay, is one I believe I've had and its incredible. With flavors of dried fruit, molasses, etc. it will hold up to a good chocolate dessert, although dessert will run stiff competition.

[Gavin Convery]

Thanks for the suggestions, some of them familiar, others not so.

Certainly I'm a big lover of German sweet wines - anything from Kurt Darting which is occasionally available in Oddbins. Also some wines from Saussignac and Monbazillac are superb and great value too. I visited Richard Doughty in Saussignac last year - an englishman in France making sweet wines which apparently beat Yquem in a blind tasting - available on some wine lists in the UK. Clos du Verdots also made a fantastic sweet wine in 1997 under the Bergerac appellation controllee.

I have had Inniskillen - in fact I was bought a bottle for my fortieth and very nice too.

Good to see other sweet wine fans out there...sometimes you are hard to find.

[Steve Klc]

Find out Chappellet here Magnolia:

http://www.chappellet.com/

Their chenin blanc "Moelleux" is my single favorite American dessert wine. I liked the 1997 best but they don't release any in years without cooperative weather to ensure a balance between sweetness, acidity and botrytis development. Same with Navarro--the dessert wines are limited bottlings, genuine labors of love and don't get released if the fragile conditions aren't right.

Nina--Dolce as in Dolce Winery, spun off from Far Niente. It was perhaps the first serious American dessert wine to be produced and distributed in any numbers. The 1998 Dolce was fine, though I feel the Chappellet more complex, superior in every way. I even reach for the much, much more affordable Bonny Doon before I do the Dolce. (Just me, lots of media wine types swoon over the Dolce and you do see it on alot of lists.) You do see the Bonny Doon, Magnolia, on lists here in the US--it's bottled in great numbers for a dessert wine--sometimes tens of thousands of cases--whereas some dessert wines are in the few hundred cases. I believe it is on more lists and has more sales than any other dessert wine in the US--and it's extremely good for the price and Randall's process.

Yes, Bux, that's the Seppelt you had. It's aged and then Seppelt dates it when "bottled." The other very fine Seppelt is the D.P. 63 Rutherglen Show Muscat, last I had was the 1997 bottling. More dried raisin and spice than the 57.

I can back up Bux's suggestion of the Spanish Casta Diva--readily available in the US and fairly priced. I've used it in desserts often in addition to drinking it--a very fragrant "muscat de beaumes de venise" style wine grown near an orange orchard.

[rich]

DOLCE

Rich, "dolce" just means sweet. So dolce what?

Dolce is made by Far Niente in Napa. It's a late harvest - made from Sauvignon Blanc and Semillon. It sells for about $60-75 a half bottle. It's very good.

I have one bottle of an '89 left (first commercial release) - waiting for a special occasion.

[Beachfan]

Beaume de Venise is a fabulous Southern Rhone sweet wine. Domaine Durbin is my favorite (it may be spelled Durban).

[Steve Klc]

Gavin--I've had the Chateau Richard 1994 "Coup de Coeur" Saussignac by Richard Doughty and have a few 750 ml bottles that I'm waiting for a few years to open--have you tasted this before or since? (In the states this wine is available through Langdon Shiverick in Ohio.) It's also certified organic--do you recall your visit to the vineyard and whether a big deal was made of this? Might you also have the link or reference to which wine fared so well up against Yquem?

[Gavin Convery]

Steve,

That is exactly the wine, although the 97 which was a fabulous year for Saussignac (as was 98). I do recall the wine being organic - it is quite clear from the label but no big deal was made about it. We tasted the whole gamut of wines red and white and Mr Doughty was charming throughout, probably because he was a bit tipsy from lunch. He told us about the wine faring well against Yquem but unfortunately I don't remember the details although it was a local wine show in Bordeaux - he was referring specifically to the 97. We brought back a few bottles but they have all been drunk now.

As I said earlier, if you can get the Clos du Verdots 97 then this is perhaps an even finer wine although perhaps less refined than the saussignac but super-intense, but only three barrels were produced and I drunk a fair amount on holiday

[Robert Nesta Marley]

i'd pass on far niente's dolce. quite cloying unless you've had it down for 10 years or so...ditto on monbazillac, nina. it's a blend of semillon, sauvignon blanc, and muscadelle--look for chateau tirecul la graviere.

another one of my favorite sweet treats is a sweet mourvedre, gaining more momentum here somewhat. grown in spain, on very very old (prephylloxera) vines, dulce monastrell has the earth and leather characteristic of mourved, but the grapes here are harvested later & sweeter. look for olivares.

i also pass on bony doon's framboise & muscat. very very cloying in my opinion. and not worth the retail $$.

how about andrew rich's late-harvest gewertztraminer??? umm...

[rich]

i'd pass on far niente's dolce.  quite cloying unless you've had it down for 10 years or so...

I've had the '89 in 95, 96, 97 and last year - never found them cloying at all. Can't speak for the more recent vintages, but since only two vintages (it's not produced every year) have been around 10+ years, it's hard to determine what will happen after a decade.

[rich]

There's a late harvest Gewurztraminer produced by Pugliese Vineyards from the North Fork of Long Island that's no quite as sweet as most desserts, yet it's nicely made. At less than $10 a half-bottle, it's quite a bargain.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

re Muscats, those from Rivesaltes are nice, and we second Bux's mention of the Navarra wines, particularly the Dulce de Moscatel from Ochoa.

Yesterday we opened a delightful little muscat from a tiny California winery: "Zibbibo", muscat of Alesandria, from Nevada City Winery, 4% residual sugar, around $20 the half bottle. (This, by the way, is a lovely little winery that I like a lot.) I am currently kicking my self that I only bought 2 bottles when we were there.

Among non muscat, Coteaux du Layon Beaulieu "Les Rouannieres", and Bonnezeaux "Les Melleresses" are both excellent, as well as the simple but good Jurancon Doux.

[LaNiña]

i'd pass on far niente's dolce.  quite cloying unless you've had it down for 10 years or so...ditto on monbazillac, nina.  it's a blend of semillon, sauvignon blanc, and muscadelle--look for chateau tirecul la graviere.

another one of my favorite sweet treats is a sweet mourvedre, gaining more momentum here somewhat.  grown in spain, on very very old (prephylloxera) vines, dulce monastrell has the earth and leather characteristic of mourved, but the grapes here are harvested later & sweeter.  look for olivares.

i also pass on bony doon's framboise & muscat.  very very cloying in my opinion.  and not worth the retail $$.

how about andrew rich's late-harvest gewertztraminer??? umm...

I have a couple of really good bottles of Mombazillac that I shlepped back from France last year. I love that stuff. The good Mombazillacs are not cloying at all.

[Ron Johnson]

I have had some late harvest Vignoles from the Finger Lakes that were very good. Nice acidity to balance the sugar and prevent the dreaded cloyingness.

Beachfan, the Beaume de Venise of which you speak is killer and it is Domaine Durban.

I have never found Far Niente Dolce to be cloying, merely expensive.