The Old Foodie

My personal feeling is that Anglo-Indian cuisine is a distinct "branch" off the original stem - or perhaps an example of fusion over such a long time that it it a "cuisine" in its own right, and no longer just a bastardised version of "real" Indian food. If you think of it that way, then the discussion about "authenticity" doesnt apply, and you can enjoy both. If you need a justifying argument that is. One might as well say otherwise that any Indian dish with potatoes is not "authentic" because potatoes came from the New World (as with that authentic Neapolitan pizza with tomatoes)

The earliest one I know of is 'De obseruatione ciborium ' (On the Observance of Foods) by a sixth century Byzantine Greek called Anthimus. A version of it has been published by Prospect Books - I lent mine out to I dont remember who or when, so I guess I'd better get myself another copy.

How far back do you want to go? One of the earliest treatises on diet is the Regimen Sanitatis Salerni (1531). It is available <a href= "http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/regimen/regimen1/content.htm" >HERE</a> Here are a couple of eighteenth century ones: <a href="http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/html/books/book_44.cfm"> Science in the Kitchen. A Scientific Treatise on Food Substances and their Dietetic Properties, Together with a Practical Explanation of the Principles of Healthful Cookery, and a Large Number of Original, Palatable, and Wholesome Recipes</a> (1893) by Ella Kellogg (wife of John Kellogg of cornflake fame – a strange pair, celibate marriage, teetotal, vegetarian, only “palatable and wholesome food) <a href="http://hearth.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=hearth;idno=4388740">A treatise on food and diet: with observations on the dietetical regimen suited for disordered states of (etc etc) … by J Pereira.</a>(1843) Is this the sort of thing you want to include? There are others scattered over the Internet. If this is what you are looking for I can sort them out and send them.

I've posted the question in the Southern Food Culture forum, Janet. Maybe luck will appear there. ← Found it! It is attributed to Clementine Paddleford, and she was talking about Thanksgiving pies: "Tell me where your grandmother came from and I can tell you how many kinds of pie you serve for Thanksgiving." I havent been able to authenticate it yet, but she apparently <a href= "http://opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110005950" >summed up</a> "Midwesterners served two (mince and pumpkin), New Englanders three (mince, pumpkin and cranberry), Bostonians four (mince, pumpkin, cranberry and a gussied-up version of apple pie called Marlborough) and Southerners none (they preferred "wine jelly, tender and trembling")" Now, there is a pie book in progress on my computer, and the deadline approacheth, and I - an English-born Aussie - have to get my head around the role of the pie at Thanksgiving. I'd love your input. Does this pretty well sum it up? I expect some loud comment from the pie-less "Southerners" amongst you. And - here is your chance to be in print: I need to provide a lot of illustrations for the book, and am severely lacking in the Thanksgiving Pie photo department. If anyone has a stunning pic of what seems to me to be the "big three" (pumpkin, mince, and apple - am I correct?) or some other authentic Thanksgiving pie combination - maybe I could buy it/use it??

OMG May I have a serving of that Duck pie with Pinot Noir! ← Anytime you come to Australia just let me know, and I'll have one in the oven for you.

Oh! You Americans ! A pie has TWO crusts and has MEAT in it. At least it does where I came from and came to. Here is my year's selection: 1. Steak and Kidney (of course) 2. Beef, without Kidney, with red wine (a sort of Beef Bourguignonne pie) 3. Beef with Beer (Guiness is Good) 4. Chicken pie (chicken breasts poached in white wine, add a little celery and sweetcorn to it) 5. Curried Chicken pie (if you must) 6. Duck, with a little Pinot Noir and just enough juniper berries in the gravy. 7. Duck,without the juniper berries (if you must) 8. Seafood (a few scallops, prawns, chunky white fish, and a little salmon for colour; white wine in the gravy of course, with artichokes and little onions. 9. Lamb Pie (not minced meat, small chunks please) 10. Lamb Pie with some pine nuts and vaguely Moroccan seasoning. 11. A potato topped pie made with good minced beef (allowable exception to the two crust option - but it must have pastry on the bottom, otherwise how are you going to pick it up? 12. A fruit pie of your choice. The Pie Queen (aka Janet)

What is work to one may be pleasure to another. ← writing for fun is one thing, but the burnout rate without that financial carrot is pretty high (and perfectly understandable). hence the short-lived nature of so many blogs. ← So what is the longest-running, purely-for-fun, unpaid "non-professional" food blog? Anyone have any ideas?

Amen to that one, sister. And I do hope we'll be hearing a lot more about Barry Fig and his chips and doodles.

The idea of 'fish' for fast days goes back to the Humoral Theory of the ancient Greeks, which underpinned all medical and dietetic ideas throughout the middle ages. The doctrine said that everthing in the natural universe was based on four elements - fire earth water and air, which had the characteristics of hot dry moist and cool. Hence everything - plants,animals,stones, man etc had varying degrees of each of these characteristics (affected by astrological conditions too) and disease or mood reflected these and could be modified by adding and subtracting. So - a person who had a disease characterised by an excess of 'cold and dry' - such as "Melancholy" would be advised to avoid food which also had those characteristics, such as ‘Gotes fleshe, Olde chese, and Greate fyshes of the see’ . Likewise, an excess of hot moist humour would be treated by removing some of this by bloodletting. You are right, meat was thought to engender 'heat' which included such earthly things such as lust. At times such as Lent one was supposed to turn one's mind away from earthly things to the spiritual, so a cooling diet helped this - which is also why some religous orders were forbidden to eat meat at any time . Animals from the water were considered cooling - so these were the preferred, or regulated foods. Of course, whales and porpoise came from the water, so were also allowed - it was nothing to do with 'fish' as we think of it now. By a very imaginative (perhaps opportunistic) leap, some monastic orders allowed foetal rabbits as fast day food - as they had not left the watery environment of the mothers womb. Barnacle geese too were acceptable at one time as no-one had seen their nest, so it was believed that they did in fact arise from barnacle-like beginnings, hence were 'watery'. Interesting, how these ideas evolve, isnt it?

The link gives a recipe for Simmel Cake. This version is a butter cake flavored with lemon and orange zest and currants and filled with a layer of layer of almond paste and covered with an almond flavored icing. ← That is a pretty creative version of the word, which is Simnel not Simmel. It derives from the Latin word for 'find flour' and was more usually made (or bought) by children as a gift for their mothers. In its commonest form it was a rich fruit cake, often with saffron, and often in a pastry crust, much like a pie, or the Scottish 'Black Bun'

Or how about this idea - eggs stuffed with birds! From: The lady's companion: or, an infallible guide to the fair sex. Containing, rules, directions, and observations, for their conduct and behaviour ... The second edition. London, 1740 Larks in Shells. Boil twelve Hen or Duck Eggs soft; take out all the Inside, making a handsome Round at the Top; then fill half the Shells with passed Crumbs, and roast your Larks; put one in every Shell, and fill your Plate with passed Crumbs brown; so serve as Eggs in Shells.

This is going to be fun - but that's a big brief you've given us zpzjessica! There are lots of fun historic recipes and ideas for eggs, so I dont know where to start. Here are a couple of random choices: From Eliza Acton's 'Modern Cookery for Private Families', 1845 - it was traditional to serve Turtle Soup with eggs found inside the turtle as a garnish. If there were no eggs, this is what you made: No. 12 Egg balls. Boil four or five new-laid eggs for ten or twelve minutes, and lay them into fresh water until they are cold. Take out the yolks, and pound them smoothly with the beaten yolk of one raw egg, or more, if required; add a little salt and cayenne, roll the mixture into balls the size of marbles, and boil them for two minutes. Half a teaspoonful of flour is sometimes worked up with the eggs. From ”366 menus and 1200 recipes of the Baron Brisse”, first published in France in 1868, this is from the English translation, 1896. Eggs with Pistachio Nuts. Take a little fine white flour, stir for a few minutes into cream, flavour with grated lemon peel, sugar, and pounded pistachio nuts; add six fresh eggs, stir over the fire for five minutes, pour into a plated dish, and bake in a slow oven; continue stirring until the eggs are cooked, sprinkle with powdered sugar, and brown with the salamander. [i'm not sure if this is would be like a pistachio custard or a sweetish omelette, but it certainly sounds different!]

The <a href = "http://www.archive.org/index.php">Internet Archive</a> is a similar idea to <a href="http://books.google.com/">Google Books</a> but also includes audio and moving images. To find books you can search just the Text option, either with terms such as "cookery" or "recipes", or by specific author or title eg "Epicurean". You can chose to view texts in several different forms, including "flipbooks" which mimic the real thing, and have "post-it" notes on the "pages" where your search terms appear. If you track down the details of the Delmonico article, please let us know! Janet

Nothing beats the real book, but if you cant afford it, it is online at the <a href="http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/">Feeding America Online Historic Cookbook Project</a> or via the <a href= "http://www.archive.org/details/epicureancomplet00ranhrich">Internet Archive</a>.

I have searched long and hard for an English translation, so if anyone does find one, please post about it here! The French version is not even available on the Gallica site, which is surprising. I understand that translations of some sections of the Almanach, and commentary appear in: Garval, Michael. "Grimod de la Reynière's Almanach des gourmands: Exploring the Gastronomic New World of Postrevolutionary France." French Food: On the Table, on the Page, and in French Culture. Ed. Lawrence R. Schehr and Allen S. Weiss. New York: Routledge, 2001. Gigante, Denise, ed. Gusto: Essential Writings in Nineteenth-Century Gastronomy. New York: Routledge, 2005. I haven't actually seen either of these though. Janet

There is a great glossary of French food terms and their English meanings, from none other than Patricia Wells <a href = "http://www.patriciawells.com/glossary/french_english_food_glossary.pdf" >HERE</a>

Good old Waverley Root gives Xanthochephalus - the yellow-headed blackbird, which might make a good pie, and Xanthosoma sagittifolium, which is "closely related to the taro", which might make good ...... ?

Hmm. From Janet, who would have been more Zealous in posting, had there not been so many other demands on her time of late….. The most this not-very Zealous poster can do is post a list of foods beginning with ‘Z ’ (zed, or zee, depending on from whence you hie). I leave it to those of you who still have some Zeal to think of food ideas for our menu from these ingredients, because I don’t know what most of them are, really. From Waverley Root’s “Food” zachun-oil tree zahidi zamang zamia zebra zebrafish zebrawood zebu zig-zag scallops zucca zucchini Zulu nut And from Alan Davidson’s Oxford Companion to food (with the repetitions from the above list removed) zaatar zabaglione zakuski zampone zander zedoary And from Larousse (1961 ed) (duplicates removed) zampino zeeland (oysters) zest(e) zibet zingara zwieback And good old reliable Cassell’s Dictionary of Cookery (1870’s) has Zandrina pudding, so it looks like we are OK to end the meal at the end of the alphabet. Zandrina Pudding. Pick some fresh ripe raspberries. Put them into a jar and cover closely; set the fruit in the oven in a tin of boiling water, and keep the water boiling around it till the juice flows freely. Boil it with half its weight of sugar to a syrup and let it get cold. If fresh fruit cannot be procured, a jar of raspberry jam may be dissolved, mixed with a little thin syrup, and rubbed through a sieve. Beat six ounces of fresh butter to a cream; work in six ounces of powdered white sugar, six ounces of dried flour, and the well-beaten yolks of six eggs. Whisk the whites of the eggs to snow, and add them to the mixture, together with a wine-glassful of the raspberry syrup. Pour the mixture into a buttered mould which it will quite fill, put the cover on it, and put it in a saucepan containing boiling water to the depth of three inches or thereabouts, according to the depth of the mould. Keep the water boiling round the pudding till it is done enough. Take it up, let it stand a minute or two, and turn it out carefully upon a hot dish. Serve, with a little of the syrup whisked with an equal quantity of thick cream, poured round it. If liked, the pudding can be baked instead of being steamed. Time to steam the pudding, an hour and a half. Probable cost, exclusive of the sacues, two shillings. Sufficient for six or seven persons. I look forward to a recipe for zebra or zedoary.

Hello Everyone In play: Vladimir Putin and high tea Piet Retief and pemmican Taj al Din al Hilali and meat Bishop Tutu and Eskimo Pie Ice Creams Francois Pienaar and Indian Curry I have been completely unable to keep track of the points in this game - my apologies! I never expected it to last more than a day or three, and now it is two weeks and going strong. It is good to see some new players, and I think everyone is enjoying the fun and creativity. I will do my best to keep track of the stories in play. I'll try to do a points tally later today, but if you want to keep the tally going, perhaps we could have another volunteer?

This is my famous-within-the-family “Steak Sprinkle” (sorry - my son’s name for it, when he was very young, and as you know, those family nick-names never die) ¾ cup sea salt flakes ¾ cup black peppercorns 2 teaspoons paprika 2 teaspoons dried thyme 2 teaspoons mild curry powder 1 teaspoon ground oregano. Grind it all up and keep in a jar. Increase or decrease the salt as you wish. An odd mix, I know, but somehow it works. Dust as much or as little as you like on your steak, then cook. It is also great on big field mushrooms.

It is good to see some new players taking insomniac on.

Well done Chef from Clarens Now we need another one from you to keep the number of challenges up.

Anne , are we not going to allow insomniac's efforts with Winston and Einstein? I thought the Einstein solution was pretty funny. Janet And welcome, Chef from Clarens - it is certainly not too late, we need some new blood around here!

Thanks Doddie and Ann for keeping track. I may find it impossible to catch up the points, but the game must go on. I see from Doddie's list that we seem to have lost one challenge, so I'll add one: Barry Humphries and pheasant Winston Churchill and Collards Neil Hamburger and lemon meringue pie Edith Wharton and fried rice Gidget and roibois tea Einstein and Vegemite. Janet

I have a little time to take a breath, which I will use to tell you a little story, as I figure I owe you one. This story concerns the letter “F ”, which is for Funny and Fear and Friendly. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I’ll begin. Once upon a time, when I was very junior in my profession as a GP (“Family Physician” in the States?) I worked for a year in a small town in rural South Australia. We had not been there long when my in-laws (British born migrants to Queensland, which is a long way from S.A) came to stay for a holiday. I was pottering about in the kitchen late one afternoon when the doorbell rang and my father-in-law went to answer it. A few moments later he came rushing into the kitchen, face ashen with Fear , and almost incoherent – jabbering and indicating the vague direction of the front door with his finger (not at all his normal British stiff upper lip style). Naturally I hurried to the door, which was wide open and framing a horrific sight. A woman stood there, cradling in her arms (as one would a baby), a bundle (about baby size, but very still and quiet) wrapped in what appeared to be a white sheet spattered with blood. The odd thing was, she looked very relaxed and was smiling (which in retrospect may have been part of what freaked my FIL out). She was a neighbour, a local farm wife, and they had just had a pig-killing. In the typically Friendly way of country folk, she thought the new doctor in town might like some nice fresh pork. The bundle was indeed a blood-spattered sheet, but it enclosed a large piece of what turned out to be very delicious pig. Eventually, when he had recovered from the shock, my father-in-law was able to agree that it was very Funny . We laughed about it for years, but I had forgotten the story until this thread. Thanks.