The Old Foodie

Here is a French cookbook idea from 1868 (taken from the 1896 English translation) from "366 menus and 1200 recipes of Baron Brisse. Black Diver with Chocolate Sauce Draw the bird, wash it in brandy, and brown over hot cinders; place in an earthenware jar, with white wine, salt, laurel leaves, and fine herbs, simmer over a slow fire, and when done, dish up, covered with chocolate made in the usual manner. He doesn’t elaborate on ‘the usual manner’, but presumably means the unsweetened basic cacao tablet or ‘cake’ which was scraped and powdered and then laboriously dissolved in water or milk or a mixture of both.

I haven't made them myself for ages, so I'd have to have a practice run first! The best thing to do is to have a good "play" with the dough. It is possible to make free-form coffiins - they always bulge out a bit at the sides, but that is the way that you can tell authentic hand-raised pies - see the genuine Melton Mowbray pies. It is much easier to "raise" them using a greased jar as the mould. You need to do the modelling while the dough is still slightly warm (not too hot or it wont hold its shape, not too cool or it is too hard to model). Also of course it is easier to make small, individual size pies first. Final option is to use a springform tin - works well, and you can un-spring it towards the end of cooking, after the shape is "set", to brown it. Very elaborate decorative pie moulds used to be used. Ivan Day's site has some lovely examples. Janet

Hot water crust pastry is the type used for the "old fashioned" raised pies such as the famous English Melton Mowbray pie. The pastry is very robust - not flaky. It is different from other pastry in that it can be moulded like clay - so free-standing crusts (used to be called "coffins" in the old days) can be modelled.

Ever since a friend showed me turkey marinated and cooked in milk I've never done it any other way. Marinate the turkey in 2 litres of milk (covered) overnight in the fridge. I think the original recipe called for a chopped onion and a chopped apple in the milk, but last year I just used milk and could not tell the difference. Roast the turkey breast-down in the milk, with another pan of water at the bottom of the oven to create some steam. Honestly, I think the best part of this is the milky-turkey juice: strain, de-fat, use some in your gravy, and freeze the rest for creamy turkey soup. I nearly cried the year my brother in law (who had also been given the recipe by our friend) tipped all the milky goodness DOWN THE SINK. I could cry now, just thinking of it.

I've just posted my Macadamia and Orange Biscotti recipe to Recipe Gullet. I've been tweaking it long enough - my friends and family are begging me to stop fiddling with the recipe, they say it is great as it is! It is here: http://recipes.egullet.org/recipes/r2045.html I make it all year round, but it is perfectly suitable for Christmas, especially as it packs and keeps well, and looks nice in a jar. It can be varied many ways (choc-hazelnut is good) and also works well Gluten-Free.

It is in the recipe archive under the name of Chocolate Alcohol Cake (the alcohol is at least as important as the chocolate) http://recipes.egullet.org/recipes/r1894.html Have fun Janet

A great way to make it disappear would be to fold it through ice-cream .......

Macadamia and Orange Biscotti. MACADAMIA AND ORANGE BISCOTTI. 60 g soft butter 220 g caster sugar 1 tsp vanilla extract 1 T finely grated orange rind 3 large eggs 350 g plain flour 1 tsp baking powder ½ tsp bicarb soda ½ tsp salt 150 g (more or less) of coarsely chopped roasted macadamias; I work on the principle of cramming as many in as possible. a couple of extra tablespoons of sugar for topping. METHOD Beat the butter, sugar, vanilla and rind until just combined. Add the eggs, one at a time, beat until just combined. Stir in the flour, baking powder and soda; when they are nearly mixed in, add the nuts. The mixture is very sticky at this point, and it is easier to manage if you put in the fridge for a while (overnight works fine too, if you want to make it ahead). Scrape the dough out onto a lightly floured surface, cut into two lumps, and knead each one very lightly until it is not so sticky. Pat these out into two logs – about 2.5 cm (an inch) thick, and long-ish or wide-ish depending on your fancy. Flatten them lightly so that they have an even, flat top. Place them on a lightly greased oven tray - they will spread a little, so allow room between the two logs. Brush the tops with water (I just run my hand under the tap then over the top of the dough); sprinkle with the extra sugar (as thick or thin as you like). Put them in a moderate oven for 35-40 minutes (ovens are so variable I hesitate to give you an exact time) – they should be golden and slightly firm but not hard. Transfer them to a cooling rack (I use two flat spatulas to lift them). When they are cool enough to handle, slice them however thick or thin you want. I use a serrated bread knife, but an electric knife works well. Put them in a moderately-slow oven until they are dry; turn them over at some point – they don’t need to be brittle, they will continue to crisp up a bit after you take them out of the oven and put them on a wire cooling rack. Eat. VARIATIONS. This is an infinitely variable recipe. You can substitute some of the flour with ground almonds (50 g) for a slightly different texture. You can of course use any nuts (or choc chips) and other flavourings. Maple sugar and macadamia is divine, if you can get an affordable source of maple sugar. I am thinking perhaps Palm Sugar and Pine Nuts next? My favourite is Chocolate Hazelnut: just substitute ½ cup of the flour with good quality cocoa, and use roasted hazelnuts instead of macadamias. In this case – even better if you substitute a couple of teaspoons of instant coffee (mix with a few drops of water) for the vanilla. It also works well Gluten-Free (substitute the flour with GF flour; the substitution of some with ground almonds works well in this version.) Keywords: Easy, Cookie ( RG2045 )

My pet hate is "natural".

Just to put things in perspective on the idea of removing noxious stuff from fruit and vegetables, the FDA have determined acceptable levels of “natural or unavoidable defects that present no health hazards for humans” for a variety of foodstuffs. “The FDA set these action levels because it is economically impractical to grow, harvest, or process raw products that are totally free of non-hazardous, naturally occurring, unavoidable defects” Here are a few random examples: APPLE BUTTER Mold - Average of mold count is 12% or more Rodent filth - Average of 4 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams of apple butter Insects - Average of 5 or more whole or equivalent insects (not counting mites, aphids, thrips, or scale insects) per 100 grams of apple butter. CORN: SWEET CORN, CANNED Insect larvae - Insect larvae (corn ear worms, corn borers) 2 or more 3mm or longer larvae, cast skins, larval or cast skin fragments of corn ear worms or corn borer and the aggregate length of such larvae, cast skins, larval or cast skin fragments exceeds 12 mm in 24 pounds (24 No. 303 cans or equivalent) CORNMEAL Insects - Average of 1 or more whole insects (or equivalent) per 50 grams Insect filth - Average of 25 or more insect fragments per 25 grams Rodent filth - Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 25 grams OR Average of 1 or more rodent excreta fragment per 50 grams MACARONI AND NOODLE PRODUCTS Insect filth - Average of 225 insect fragments or more per 225 grams in 6 or more subsamples Rodent filth - Average of 4.5 rodent hairs or more per 225 grams in 6 or more subsamples PEANUT BUTTER Insect filth - Average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams Rodent filth - Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams POPCORN Rodent filth - 1 or more rodent excreta pellets are found in 1 or more subsamples, and 1 or more rodent hairs are found in 2 or more other subsamples OR 2 or more rodent hairs per pound and rodent hair is found in 50% or more of the subsamples OR 20 or more gnawed grains per pound and rodent hair is found in 50% or more of the subsamples WHEAT FLOUR Insect filth - Average of 75 or more insect fragments per 50 grams Rodent filth - Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 50 grams You don’t get much more “natural” than rodent excreta and insect filth, now do you? So – there could be (and probably are) a couple of acceptable rodent hairs in that flour you just used to make that delicious chocolate cake.

I am becoming quite a collector of gluten-free recipes since my daughter-in-law was diagnosed with coeliac. I have made a great flourless cake with ground hazelnuts (and chocolate of course) - not sure where the recipe came from, it might have been a magazine, so I cant post it here because of copyright. If anyone wants it, PM me. Hazelnuts and chocolate do it for me every time. And no, Rachel, the choc-orange cake is not at all bitter, the long boiling does away with that, and the peel gives a great texture.

Hmm. There are two issues here - one is the food, which I am sure you will get a lot of help on from eGulleters The other one is about friendship - you are clearly an excellent friend to this person. Yet she doesnt trust you, and she monopolises the conversation on the issue that you have worked so hard on, just for her. What makes you think that she will "trust" your vegan-friendly meals either? She needs a little lesson in how to be a good friend in return. May be you should take her out for a cup of vegan coffee and have a little talk about her lack of trust, and the meaning and responsibilities of friendship? Another alternative, if you could bear it, would be to stock up on processed vegan food of her preference, so that at least she couldnt complain of hunger and monopolise the conversation.

Thanks jen, that is good of you. I hope the "troubled thoughts" is not just creative translating in the original book. Seems a strange name for a cookie/biscuit/cake, doesnt it?

thanks andiesenji - this sounds like it is on the right track. Not speaking German, I might have a problem with this, but I'll let you know if I come up with something.

Thanks andiesenji. I am particularly interested in a biscuit whose name might translate as "Troubled Thoughts". I guess it is more of a German language question than a culinary one. The author of the book is English, so presumably she was thinking of the English "Biscuit" (American "Cookie"). A "sugar iced biscuit" to me would indicate something like a shortbread or other crisp sweet "cookie" - but this may not be a German reality. I do love the story of 'Kings Chaos"!

Interesting! I would be most interested in the documentation too. If it became popular, then it is quite possible that a local newspaper would have a baker's advertisement. Local newspapers should at least give the names of local bakers. Perhaps there is a descendant somewhere with the recipe? Genealogy sites can be helpful there. Did your research take you in that direction Daniel? Was she in Coventry at the time (which is what I understood) - if so, why was the cake called "Brompton"?

I have yet another query relating to a name on a historic menu ("Bovin and Potatoes" from the Titanic menu still escapes me). In Lesley Blanch's "From Wilder Shores" she gives a menu from Mad King Ludwig II. The final dish is translated as " 'Troubled Thoughts' (A sugar-iced biscuit)" Can any one tell me the name of this biscuit in German? Janet edited to try to link to the Titanic Potatoes thread, but the link wont link!

I have exhausted my sources - and they are pretty comprehensive. Plenty of marmalade cakes, but none specifically attributed to her. If she was living in Coventry at the time, then a local librarian might be able to help. A George Eliot scholar might also be able to help. Any literature scholars out there? It might all be a myth of course.

Now, Daniel, Darlin', we two are gonna have to disagree on this one. There are whole generations and centuries of good Southern women whose lives were lived quietly, unobtrusively, uncelebrated save for their way with a cake, a pie, a recipe for chowchow or preserves or perhaps a sublime custard which, when cranked and iced and stirred in the old wooden ice cream freezer, became the food of gods. ........ Perhaps my strong feelings on this subject have come too much to the fore, as I have been working hard on getting a book ready for all the children and grandchildren for Christmas---all the family remembrances and recipes and little wisps of where-we-come-from to pass on to the new families taking up the kitchen torch. I've just been so immersed in all the remembering---it's very important to me to hand down whatever I can to enrich the heritage of all our family. So, I'll just keep referring to all the old recipes and the old ways by their proper names---the names of the women who originated them, and whose names would now be lost to time, save for their talent in the kitchen. I will not let their work and their names be lost. ← Hear! Hear! Rachel. I couldn't agree more - although (perhaps this is what you were referring to, Daniel?) these sort of recipe titles are meaningless in a "public" cookbook - they only have meaning when they are part of your own personal family heritage. My first reaction to this post (and thankyou for triggering this thought, Rachel) was - which of my recipes will endure and end up with my name attached to it on scraps of paper in the drawers (or more likely in computer files) of my (as yet unborn) grandchildren and great-grandchildren? This is probably another thread, but I'd be interested to know what everyone here would like to be remembered for, recipe-wise. Or what they think they will be remembered for, which may be a different thing.

I was in London a few weeks ago and found - purely by accident, the Newman Arms at 23 Rathbone St Fitzrovia. They have a "Pie Room" - and that is all that they sell - no sausages, no roast beef, no curry. They have a standard 7 (or maybe 8) pies always available, and a couple of specials every day. This was my steak and kidney pie. It was fantastic.

I have not been very active around here lately - too many other things have been getting in the way. At Anne's urging, I am going to put in my historic two cents' worth here. I love these 'forever dishes'. A couple of mid-nineteenth century Frenchmen show that we have resisted altering the dish since then - although no-one so far has mentioned liver as a major ingredient. From Brillat-Savarin's Physiology of Taste (1848) Pot-au-feu is a piece of beef, intended to be cooked in boiling water, slightly salted so as to extract all the soluble parts. Bouillon is the fluid which remains after the operation. Bouilli is the flesh after it has undergone the operation. Water dissolves at first a portion of the osmazome; then the albumen coagulates at 50 degrees Reaumur, and forms the foam we see. The rest of the osmazome, with the extractive part of juice, and finally a portion of the wrapping of the fibres detached by the continuity of ebullition. To have good bouillon, the water must be heated slowly, and the ebullition must be scarcely perceptible, so that the various particles necessarily dissolved, may unite ultimately and without trouble. It is the custom to add to bouillon, vegetable or roots, to enhance the taste, and bread or pates to make it more nourishing. Then it is what is called potage. Potage is a healthy food, very nourishing, and suits every body; it pleases the stomach and prepares it for reception and digestion. Persons threatened with obesity should take bouillon alone. All agree that no where is potage made so well as in France, and in my travels I have been able to confirm this assertion. Potage is the basis of French national diet, and the experience of centuries has perfected it. From Alexis Soyer’s, Shilling Cookery for the People (1854) FRENCH POT AU FEU. (This may also lie done in the iron saucepan, stewpan, or baking-pan.) I cannot expect that this truly national sonp of France can be made to perfection, or done with so much care as in that country, therefore I have simplified it, and shall call it The French Cottage Pot au Feu, or French Soup. Put a gallon of water in the pot, put four pounds of the buttock of beef, or shin, or five pounds of the thick part of the leg, three teaspoonfuls of salt, one of pepper, four onions, four leeks cut in pieces, two carrots, and two good-sized turnips, three cloves, one burnt onion, or three spoonfuls of colouring; set it on the fire; when beginning to scum, skim it, and place the pot on one side of the fire. Add now and then a drop of cold water; it will make it clear. Boil four hours. Bread sliced, put into the tureen, and pour the broth, with some of the vegetables, over; serve the meat separate, and the remaining vegetables round. If this simple receipt is well attended to, you will find it a very good soup and bouilli. If you run short of any of the vegetables, make it good with others. If no burnt onions or colouring, the soup will be white, instead of a sherry colour; but still it will be good. In France they always put in half a pound of ox-liver to every four pounds of meat. I am sure they are too good judges, over the water, to spoil their soup; in fact, there the ox-liver costs as much as the meat — sixpence per pound — therefore it is not with a view of saving but to make it better.

It is certainly looking like it is Bovril that is the culprit, although in the absence of any other clear references to 'Bovin' it might have to remain educated conjecture. Bovril and the like were popular as restorative drinks, so the on-board concentrates might have been intended for this. The dinner was for crew, not wealthy passengers, so the dishes may have been less 'posh' on that account. Having said that however, chefs and menu-writers were not afraid to use brand names at the time- one menu from the famous Raffles hotel in Singapore in 1910 proudly advertises 'Heinz' soup, and another from the opening of an American hotel has "canned corn". It would not have been strange even for a ship like the Titanic to have the word "Bovril" on the menu, rather than a neologism like "Bovin" I'm still searching for another reference to "Bovin" itself. Thanks for all your input - keep it coming! Janet.

Another possibility, thanks for asking your friend, markk. I'll see what that line of inquiry turns up and will keep you all posted. I have found no other reference to Bovin so far. I guess it is possible that Bovril And ... became abbreviated to Bov. an'..... , and then the pronunciation led to it being spelled Bovin. We do have a tendency to abbreviate and amalgamate words, dont we?

← Interesting! I considered Bovril as the ingredient and then discarded the idea. I thought I had checked out the Encyclopedia site, but obviously missed this! It will be a while before the book is available - the manuscript is not due for 12 months yet. I have selected (and keep re-selecting!) 365 historic menus (one for each day of the year, for an event on the actual day) - each will have a commentary and 1-3 recipes. I am having great fun with it. I'll certainly be asking for assistance round here from time to time I expect - thanks for the proof-reading offer. Janet

This is driving me crazy! I am considering using the FIRST meal aboard the Titanic in my Menus from History book. The meal took place on April 2nd - the one and only day of sea-trials before the real voyage - so it must have been served to crew. There is an image HERE In the list of vegetable dishes, below "Green Peas - Cauliflower", there is a dish that appears to be called "Bovin & Boiled Potatoes". I am completely baffled: what is 'Bovin' ? It is not likely to be Bovine; there is (was) a variety of potato called Bovinia, apparently grown for feeding to livestock, from what I can gather, but this hardly fits; there is "Boivin" which apparently is a variety of Meadow Rue - but again, this does not fit. The style of menus of the time (and the other surviving menus from the ship) would suggest that at that point the menu would list potatoes cooked by other methods, such as "Parmentier and Boiled new potatoes" such as on the famous last meal menu. I have tried all sorts of phonetic spellings of what might be the word. Any ideas? Please (she says plaintively) Janet