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I've had the "Dippin' Dots" at a food court in a Texas mall - My impression was that the limiting factor was the quality of the ingredients, not the technique. I don't doubt that in the hands of a true master the liquid-nitrogen ice cream could be sublime. The "plancha" that so enthuses Ferran is a different matter. Forming a skin on the product via extreme freezing temperatures is somewhat unexplored territory - though Adrià has apparently done some research at the "Taller". Several eG members have scored reservations at El Bulli, so perhaps we'll get some reports about the success of the "plancha" later in the season.

Well, Michael may have lost on points (originality, whatever that means ), but he certainly acquitted himself well. Honestly I can understand why the judges would have had a hard time choosing - both chefs (and their crews) performed admirably. Michael, you done yourself proud!

I credit this thread with overcoming my fear of roux. I always chickened out at the "peanut butter beige" stage. Thanks to all who've contributed here (especially Fifi, who's recipe works like a charm), I've learned to love the seriously dark roux. Do not fear the roux!

I'm thinking that texture is the key here. Sorry that I can't contribute any first-hand experience. If Ferran Adrià is excited about his N2 "plancha", I'm excited too!

I have to say that I'm a bit dismayed at the nay-saying and humbuggery on this thread. Sure there's a lot of chicanery on the art scene, but I'd hope that people would be a bit more open to provocative ideas. Everyone's free to declare an artistic endeavor as "crap", but I'd hope for at least a moment of reflection first. Has anyone in the NYC area bothered to walk down to Central Park to experience Christo and Jeanne-Claude's 'Gates' project first-hand? I've been following it in media reports, and I'm seriously considering traveling to New York to experience it myself. As for John Cage's more provocative pieces, I'll grant you that he was always a provocateur (I would say in the best sense), and he may have relished the pissed-off reactions he often attracted. When he and David Tudor did a residence at my college back in the early seventies, there were plenty of people who didn't "get" what they were doing, but I'd say a majority found their performances and lectures engaging to say the least. The highlight for me was performing in one of his "aleatoric" pieces ("Cartridge Music"). I'm forever disappointed that I missed out on another activity: Cage took a number of students (including several friends) on a mushroom hunting expedition. That's right, john Cage was a dedicated mycologist. Within walking distance of our dining hall they found an abundance of delicious wild mushrooms. Cage also collected a separate basket of "these will kill you" mushrooms which looked sufficiently similar to the good ones to put me off wild mushroom collecting for life... As for the whole food-is-art/food-isn't-art debate, all I can say is that I'll approach it with an open mind. If Ferran Adrià choses to serve me a deep-fried fish skeleton (I should be so lucky!) I'm not going to whine about it not being a traditional idea of "food" - I'll laugh out loud and love the moment.

Thanks. Guess I'll just place an order on his site. Amazon usually lists new publications as "not yet available" (or something like that) - that's why I was wondering if this is a new book. p.s. to Kristin: Japan shows up on the list of counties when submitting the order. Was there a problem with billing? Maybe you could email or call to order the book. Edit: can't speel

I'm curious as to why Amazon lists the Folse book as "Out of print - Limited availability". Is this an old book out of print, or is it newly published?

The Jus technique sounds similar to the one in the Spoon book. One thing that struck me about this approach is the multiple reductions in relatively small amounts of water. Also the fact that the meat and aromatics are browned in peanut oil (in the Spoon recipe, at least) after which the oil is poured off and replaced by butter. None of the steps are exotic, but I'd never seen them combined in that particular sequence. The results are so good, especially with the poultry jus, that this has become a standard technique for me. Can't wait 'til my Grand Livre arrives.

I don't think you'll have time to do the Bouchon recipe on Saturday for Saturday night. Keller's recipe is fascinating and well worth doing, but in your limited time frame you might be better off trying Bourdain's recipe from the Les Halles book. It's one of the sample recipes on his site. I've cooked from both recipes and both work well. Bourdain's is far simpler (and quicker) to execute.

I bought the Bouchon book and enjoyed it so much I ordered the FL book, which I'd always meant to get but hadn't gotten around to... I love the really elaborate preparations (even though I'm unlikely to attempt many of them myself), but some of the simplest ideas (like the infused oils and spice powders) are very elegant and are likely to be of more practical use to me. The section on stocks and "quick" sauces also seems authoritative. Maybe I'll screw up my courage and try some of the more ambitious dishes, but for now I'm trying to start out with the more basic stuff and build from there. The FL book is more than just a cook book - it actually makes for a very nice read. I would also recommend Michael Ruhlman's The Soul of a Chef as a companion book, since a major portion of it centers on the writing of FL.

There's a picture sequence here referenced in a guide to Making a Roux. Do the colors look about right to you?

Evaporation is really not much of a concern for reasonable stretches of time. I often go to bed with the water bath happily swirling away without any worry about evaporation. My circulating heater has a "trip temperature" setting that shuts off the heater if it gets too hot. Having said that, I would never leave the house with the water bath heater running (well at least not for more than a brief period). I've had some "incidents" where a bag of duck confit got caught in the recirculating pump, melting the bag and generating a nasty duck-fat oil-slick in the water bath. Exxon Valdez eat your heart out!

Regarding the concerns about food hygiene, both Jackal10 and I posted questions to Harold McGee when he most graciously visited our forum. The bottom line is that we should always be cognizant of the activity of pathogenic agents (if I may pontificate!), and the temperature of food should be monitored closely. In other words, giving the shits to your loved ones is probably not cool.

Kristin, I'm guessing that it's probably easier for you to find Shaoxing wine where you are now than back home in NEO. Shaoxing has more of an "aged" quality - sake and mirin are not at all equivalent. Ben has already expressed doubt about the importance of using the "right" alcohol in these recipes, but if you can can get your hands on the "real thing", why not? BTW, the Shaoxing wine I bought in SF Chinatown is in conventional western wine bottles. The traditional stuff I saw in Chinese restaurants in Shizuoka Prefecture (close to your home!) was in the historic clay jars, with commensurate prices. Get ready for serious sticker shock there! The cheap stuff in glass bottles should do fine for marinating pork for char siu bao.

Thanks for your input, Ben. Out of curiosity (if you don't mind), is your familiarity with restaurant-style ("cha lao") dumplings here in North America, or in Canton or Hong Kong? I'm very much aware that this is an international forum, and I don't make any assumpsions about where our members post from (unless their profiles state as much). As you've probably guessed by now, I'm not a total stickler for "authenticity", but I like to be cognizant of regional variations. Wendy, your pork roast looks wonderful. I would suggest that you dice it up in small pieces and douse it in many yummy flavorings. Edit to add: Looks like Wendy is way ahead of me!

More than that. This, and the sous vide thread you've informed so usefully, are absolutely fascinating and I suspect that you may just have sparked a mini-boom in sales of second-hand laboratory circulators. If that is the case, and you have the time and the inclination, might I suggest another project that could be worthy of your attention -- an expansion of the food safety advice you give in the main thread? An Idiots Guide to Safe Sous Vide would be indispensible for home cooks who might be tempted to pick up a used water bath. ← Don't be fooled by Nathan's relatively low post count. He's provided a treasure tove of info regarding sous-vide techniques. The topic you referenced started out with Nathan asking for advise on sous-vide cooking temps/times -- after which he provided more answers than the rest of us combined. I bought a Lauda MS immersion heater off of eBay (my one and only eBay purchase). There are plenty of lab water bath contraptions available, but I'm queasy about what's been processed through them. The immersion heaters have a lot less surface area to clean up. Some of the tank heaters are just nasty. Of course, if you can afford to buy the equipment new that's not a problem. I submerge my immersion heater in a large (for home use, at least) stock pot. I cover the top with the lid - of course I can't completely seal it, since the heater blocks one side of the pot. The Lauda is rated for +/- one degree C, which is plenty accurate enough for my purposes. The rated accuracy declines with the volume of water in the bath, but I haven't seen any lack of accurate temperature control even when my stock pot is full to the brim with bags of duck confit.

The "aging" step is essential, to be sure. I think it's pretty much understood that many braised / stewed dishes benefit from a prolonged rest before reheating. It's fascinating to me that Keller skips the raw-wine-marination step in favor of using a wine reduction followed by a rest in the refrigerator prior to final assembly. Your capsule summary of Keller's recipe in the bœuf bourguignon thread ← summed it up nicely. I almost commented on one minor omission: Keller actually segregates the (first cycle of) vegetables from the browned rib meat by placing a barrier of cheesecloth in the pot. We don't want the meat to be sullied by bits of vegetal detritus. This recipe makes a fascinating and wonderful contrast to the one in the Les Halles cookbook. Bourdain's technique is all about accessibility - anyone can follow that recipe (which is available on his web site) and the results are terrific. Keller demands a certain attention to detail. OK, I'll say it: the guy is obsessive!

Thanks, Ben. Are you saying that the yeasted dough is more prevalent in home cooking? And is the sweetness of the "cha lao" dough subtle or pronounced? I've never been able to get decent Shaoxing here in Ohio. I picked up a couple of bottles in SF Chinatown last spring. I agree that it's preferable to substituting sherry, but anyone who can't find it can use sherry without feeling too deprived. Any cheap "cooking wine" is vile. If you can't find real Shaoxing, substitute dry sherry and carry on! I've always thought of Chinese roasted pork as marinated strips roasted at high heat with a sweet coating - fragrant, sweet, and caramelized. Ken Hom calls for malt sugar rather than honey, so that's what I used. (the maltose syrup in the hot pink tub from the local asian market). The taste and consistency of the chinese maltose is pretty similar to Lyle's Golden Syrup. I'm interested to see how Wendy's whole roast turns out. It sure looks good. p.s. to Kristin: If you can eat Natto, you clearly fear no fermented food.

I've had the book for several weeks, but I'm just now getting around to cooking from it. I've got a pot of beef bones simmering to make stock (would have preferred veal, but couldn't find any veal bones). Kelller's stock-making technique is not terribly unusual, but I'm following his method for completeness - I'm planning to make the bœuf bourguignon recipe from Bouchon. I like the idea of making a wine reduction, cooking the first batch of vegetables with the beef, wine, and stock, and then discarding the first vegetables, to be replaced with fresh individually prepared garnishes of the same veggies. There's something about all of that double-reduction, refinement, etc., that appeals to me. Definitely a project for a snowy weekend.

Amazon lists the English edition of Grand Livre as "Not yet released". The price is certainly attractive ($157.50 w/ free shipping), but the detail view lists the book as a paperback edition. Surely that's not right? The stated list price is $250, so it sounds like the same one that you saw at KA&L. Chipsbooks lists a special prepublication price of $395.00 Hopefully that just needs to be updated. The new J. B. Prince catalog has the hardcover English edition for $225.

Dejah (and snowangel), using a starter doesn't necessarily make the dough noticeably sour. If you use a shorter fermentation the bacteria don't have time to develop a pronounced sour flavor. The dough just has a more complex flavor than if you used a commercial yeast. Behemoth commented that the recipe using a starter (probably just a sponge aged overnight) might be more flavorful. Jackal10 also mentioned using a starter in place of yeast. The Florence Lin recipe he used calls for regular packaged yeast in the original - the sourdough starter was his addition. The Mai Leung one I referenced uses packaged yeast for the first two fermentations and baking powder for the final one. Like I said, the recipe is elaborate and time-consuming. I believe that it's common for restaurants to use a bit of starter carried over from previous batches to leaven their dough. Over time the starter or "mother" will take on a more complex character, even if it's originally from a commercial yeast. All three recipes that I found in my cook book collection (Lin, Leung, and Charmaine Solomon) are aimed at home cooks in western kitchens. I wonder if packaged yeast is an adaptation for the sake of accessibility. I know one thing: even if it's not authentic, the dough made with starter tasted better than the yeast one.

I followed a recipe from Mai Leung's Dim Sum and Other Chinese Street Food for my first attempt this weekend. The dough is subjected to several stages of fermentation (I used sourdough starter instead of commercial yeast). It calls for cake flour, lard, and baking powder (in the final rising). Very nice, but time consuming. Today I made a batch of Florence Lin's food-processor dough. Not as flavorful as the first one, but much quicker and easier. I even used the corn oil called for in the original recipe, resisting all temptations to substitute lard. Both were steamed.

Do others have the same reaction to goose fat that wattacetti did? The "waxy" smell doesn't sound too appealing. Also, I think that 80ºC/175ºF for 7 hours may be a bit long, though I've never cooked with Barbary duck. The 80ºC / 6 hour combo you're using for the Pékin legs sounds about right. I cooked my Moulard legs longer, but they generally require longer cooking than "Long Island" (Pékin). Paula Wolfert posted some guidelines ← up-thread. That's exactly the technique required for incorporating liquids in the bag when using a clamp machine. Fats need to be well-chilled, and liquids need to be frozen, to prevent them gumming up the works. After the bag is sealed you can warm things up to distribute the liquids.

Same here. Every time I follow that recipe I decide that it's too heavy on the cloves (in the quatre épices). But I always seem to forget by the next time. Oh well. I'll try Allan's citrus-based flavorings some time soon. (flavourings?)

That sounds great! Not just the confit - the accompaniments as well. Vacuum-packing the duck with the marination ingredients is just a matter of convenience (and a bit of paranoia about cleanliness). As Nathan mentioned up-thread, there are special devices for quick marination under vacuum, but packing the duck in bags just means that there's no oxygen or other contaminants getting to the surface of the meat. The timing of the marination step is the same, as is the effect. Nathan pointed out (quite correctly) that my previous attempt to combine the seasoning and cooking stages was doomed to failure (see ←here] ). This time, I used the full compliment of salt, spices, and herbs. Marination time was ~ 24 hours. I "massaged" the bags several times to make sure that the ingredients were well-distributed. Like you, I'm a bit concerned about leaving the juices in the bag for long-term storage (and aging). I think the answer is to open the bags at the end of the cooking time. The juices and fat can be drained out and refrigerated to make it easier to separate them. If you have a chamber machine, it would be possible to separate the (still warm) fat, pour it in a bag with the duck, and reseal it. This won't work with a clamp machine (FoodSaver) because liquid ingredients can't be vacuum sealed. A chamber machine solves that problem, but the price is too steep for most home cooks. Chilling the fat until it's solid would make it possible to seal it with an external machine, but the fat wouldn't get distributed properly. Maybe the simplest solution is to use the traditional jar storage like Allan uses. I'm still a bit wary of storing the confit at room temperature. Yeah, it's been done since forever but it still makes me nervous. One concern with using the sous-vide technique is assuring that the food doesn't spend too much time in the "danger zone" temperature range. Too many cycles of cooling/heating can't be a good thing. Using an ice bath to drop the temp quick after cooking is a good idea. I couldn't find any mention of your marination/seasoning. Did you follow Allan's recipe?