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"BRIAN" You using such fancy word as "Digresses" startled me since I have been trying to convince a NYC Deli Operator to do what I thought you said. I have been doing my best to convince him that if he wanted to become # 1 in Deli/Pastrami and Bagels it would be a real marketing ploy to serve"Pastrami, Salt Beef [Corned Beef]" and imported Montreal "Bagels" to his potential customers who craved the old time taste and flavors not generally available in shhhhh, NYC anymore. When I read your posting I thought it had already happened. Irwin

Ben, Dejah and Gastro888, Thank you all for the honor of being part of your heritage. I have a Seattle friend whose parents are originally from Toysan whose father is 88 years old and is recovering from a stroke. Since his parents left China at a very young age he and his siblings speak village Cantonese barely, but are not familiar with most traditional Chinese foods. I was thinking that my favorite "Toysan Dish" that was only available at several Restaurants in Hong Kong located in "Kowloon City" and "North Point" or prepared by someones Grandma would be a special treat if anyone has a recipe. My wife learned to prepare several versions, but her recipes are in storage hard to access so if anyone can help I would appreciate the information. "Loufo-tong" was the type of Soup, that simmered all day long at the Home or Restaurants where it was served in many variations always the most popular menu choice even though it was considered a humble soup of the day. It was always worth the trip to be able to enjoy these soups often made with Pork Neck and Back Bones, Chicken Feet and on Holidays with Large Chunks of Pork Shoulder, rarely with Seafood except Salt Fish, Dates, Herbs and ? Whenever I eat at a new Chinese Restaurant I always ask if there is a "Soup of the Day" but this seems to be something not done at least in Seattle. The only time I ever get to eat a Soup different from the menu choices is at places where they know me well enough that I will be offered whatever Soup's being served for the staff meal, rarely do I get lucky but when I do I really enjoy eating the soups. Thank you, Irwin

Ben & Gastro888: I am only Toysan in my stomach. After all I make many dishes using Duck or Geese Gizzards, Dried Scallops [Congee] and Dates. If I was fortunate enough to be invited for Dinner I would never expect Condiments since it would be a question of face. I always leave promptly after dinner is over. I have collected Pearl River Oysters that weighed in excess of 2 pounds [saved the Shells], spent time at the Amoy Canning Company Plant and use Pearl River Soy both light and dark at home. The only thing about me thats different is I generally prefer "Po Lei Cha" with Toysan Meals. Can't forget, "Steamed Pork with Salt Fish and Salted Egg", plus Veggies are better when seasoned with Oyster Sauce and First Press Peanut Oil. Irwin

The universal temperature used for so called "Cold Smoking" is generally 90 degrees Fahrenheit. This is the temperature that most cold smoked items are allowed to attain internally and often takes 1 1/2 to 2 hours to obtain with a low temperature from 110/115 degrees. A good smoke generator with humidity contol and thermostat will provide a even natural smoke patina to whatever your smoking this works best with delicate seafood such as salmon or meat items that will be finished and finessed before serving such as Steaks. It's even used with many different commercial products that may often be marinated under pressure with the addition of some liquid smoke to enhance the flavor. I find this the best fish prepared this way in the "Nova" style Smoked Salmon that is very mildly cured, then throughly washed, allowed to dry the slowly cold smoked until it aquires the shiny patina ythat occurs when the oils come to the Salmon sides fleshy surface then it's cooled, packed and sliced to your order. Cold Smoked Steaks are generally kept Refrigerated until ordered then quickly seared on both sides under high heat and allowed to set and rest in a warm oven until they reach the degree of doneness customers ordered. Since a well marbled cut will smoke best and hold the smoke character better the Steak tastes more flavorful. Irwin Irwin

It interesting on how the "Hong Kong" often evolves from the eyes of the diner, who as things become more progressive sometimes we lose sight of what the root rationale caused things to become local customs or traditions. When we began opening different types regional Chinese Restaurants everywhere in Hong Kong we decided to provide all the condiments at no charge to our customers to provide consistency for the regional kinds of operations, even more important we offered a higher compensation to our employees. The custom still persist in the majority of more reasonable priced eateries as well as all of my favorites the "Tai Pai Tungs", "Hawkers" and "Street Side Vendors". Another interesting oddity still existing in Hong Kong is that many of the westernized restaurants use Caterers to provide employee meals that are served from in home kitchens with small tables or in the restaurants themselves because the Westernized/European Foods are not easily prepared at the Restaurants due to the different kitchen set ups. This may seem to be a reason, but what's more interesting is that the employees are generally not happy having to eat westernized food on a daily basis. At our Restaurants where we employed Shanghai and Cantonese Employees the only type of meals that they agreed to share together based on its taste and flavor was meals done by "Toysan Families" who provided 3 dishes, soup plus rice per table for lunch with 4 dishes, soup and rice for dinner. All employees were expected to leave a small tip or gratuity for the condiments. I often feel that because of sharing so many of these meals I developed such affinity to Toysan Cooking that it's has become my favorite. in Hong Kong just by the meals served you were able to tell what village the cook originated from, but it was always a amazing value that always tasted good. It in my opinion characteristically the most food orientated community in the world when the 2 main spare time activities are Eating out and Mai Jong. I miss it every day Irwin

In Hong Kong the condiments generally served in the majority of Restaurants catering to Cantonese [not tourists] always placed at every table mixed condiments of "Hot Mustard" traditionally Coleman's but in the last 25/30 years more often a English Style Hot Mustard imported by my associates from the USA in 55 Gallon Drums and repacked into 5 caddy packages for Restaurants. Whats unique to Hong Kong is that it's not purchased by the Restaurants but by the Front of the house employees. This is due to it being traditional that all customers leave small cash gratuity for the use of the Mustard or Red Sauce, Hot Sauce, Worcestershire, Various Vinegars that the diners "CHOOSE" to use with their meal. This payment has nothing to do with the standard service charge added to almost all Restaurant checks but is payed as a welcome extra for using the condiments to the servers. Since the servers are aware that visitors, tourists and many non Chinese locals are not aware of this custom they choose not to provide condiments unless requested often reminding the guests who may speak Chinese to be sure to advise their hosts if they aren't sure who will be paying the check for the meal. Almost always if the Chinese is hosting the meal it is pre-arranged that no check will be presented at the table to avoid any question about payment. This custom is only done at "Chinese Restaurants" as condiments are available at all other types of Ethnic Restaurants where it is provided by the Restaurant to customers. Hope that this clarifies the condiment query. The so called recipe most popular in Hong Kong is to use Beer as the liquid when preparing the Mustard from the Powder and allow it to rest for several hours [sometimes it's turned upside down for potency ?] before serving. Irwin

I'm very surprised that "NYC Pizza Favorites" hasn't picked up or are not aware that the is a new rating of "Pizza" Places that put a place I've posted about previously on this and other threads as having excellent Pizza. It was just Rated # 1 out of the authors pizza testing in over 1000 places. I don't know how to post a lead or HTML , interesting because the thread has a way to access a article from a "Arizona Newspaper" Posting referance # 845827 on eGullet. Irwin

I set up "Schmulka Bernstein's Chinese" on the Lower Eastside as the first Chinese Kosher Restaurant. It was chefed by Cantonese Cooks who were familiar with Kosher cooking who had experience working at various Kosher Hotels in Catskill's but also had extensive experience working at NYC Cantonese Restaurants. Every item on the menu was adopted to taste as close to the food being seved at every other Chinese Restaurant in the City. At that time there was very little menu variation except in China Town and even there were only about 1/2 dozen places plus eating clubs that catered to Chinese. The only place serving Dim Sum was the Nam Wah Tea House. I haven't found any NYC area Kosher Chinese Restaurant nearly as good on any of my visits that served so called NYC Chinese. Not sure of the exact year it opened but "eatingwitheddie" if I remember correct worked with Reis Brothers. Irwin

If it's anywhere in Vancouver I will come and visit very soon. Why don't someone utilize your national treasure ? Many eGullet posters and lurkers have been inundated with "Pastrami Dreams" ever since "Chef Brian Fowke" made everyone droll over his magnificent Pastrami Experiment via eGullet his looked better then the venerable "Katz's" or anyplace from Montreal and I'm sorry but I keep thinking about it every time Pastrami or Vancouver is mentioned. Irwin

I posted the same opinion about "Pizzeria Bianco" making the best Pizza in my estimation in the United States on June 10, 2004 on the eGullets" NYC Pizza Survey" Posting # 629351. [sorry don't know how to bring it to this page] I haven't traveled nor tried to eat Pizza at over 1000 places, but I have eaten at all the NYC area places mentioned and even though I feel that there are several nearly as good in Connecticut and Philly and more and more wannabes everywhere the only other place that is maybe even better in the finished products and consistency is located in Portland, Oregon and even though I have only eaten this Pizza after being brought by a friend to Seattle from Portland it's definitely a contender or maybe even better. I hope to visit Portland soon just to eat at "Apizza Scholls" " and they even make authentic Texas Barbecue called "LOW BBQ" only on Mondays that alone is worth the trip. [Had some cold] The "Apizza Scholls" evolved from the original place called "Scholls Public House" that was closed by the owner to open his "Apizza" and only stays open until they have run out of "Dough" that apparently happens daily. [Just like in Coney Island]. I love Artisan's who have the ability to provide us all with something special. That something that you can't get combined in NYC or anywhere else. Irwin

In "Hawaii" they were referred to as "Crack Seed Olives". In "Hong Kong" they are available in several dozen variations, sweet, sour, salty and pickled. An even more unusual type I purchased this week at a Korean grocery in Seattle. "JUJUBE TEA" from the "Samhwa Hangyang Foods Co Ltd" imported from Korea by a Hawaiian Company. Contents are: Jujube Extract, Flesh of Jujube, Oligo Sugar [?], Honey and Sugar. It comes in a 35.3 oz Jar and retails for $9.99 Apparently it's used as a Tea, Condiment or Enhancer it really loaded with sliced olives is sweet and interesting while I'm not fond of it I'm not able to resist something that piques my interest even though my friends seem to like it added to their tea for a sweetener. Irwin

Isn't hitting 3 places in one night about par for the course for you, Ling? ← Ling - you ARE a machine. I am in awe and humbled by your eating abilities. ← I hit three places but I didnt eat at all three!! ← Ling: Even in Seattle we are suspicious, especially after your commenting about considering a 5 pound cheesecake being feasible. When living in Hong Kong I learned never to assume anything about a diminutive Womans appetite, especially after she admits stopping into 3 Restaurants insinuating that she did not eat anything. Huh ! Irwin

"The Hunt" in Ridgewood good Sliced Steak Sandwiches with Brown Butter. "The Tavern" in Newark somehow it felt like my idea of a real restaurant. Irwin

That's brilliant. My grandmother owned a candy store on Southern Blvd. I was just a kid when she sold it, but I remember it. And I remember the egg creams. No eggs, no cream. Ever. Foxx's U-bet syrup for sure, no one would even dream of using anything else. I think the pressure of the seltzer coming out of the fountain had a lot to do with the "head" on the eggcream. Oh my, they were so good. But the condensed milk, now that's a great idea. ← I grew up on Southern Blvd. Between 163rd Street/Hunts Point up to Freeman Street was familiar with all the Candy Stores. My Uncle owned the "Associated Supermarket" on Westchester Ave and Simpson Street it was the first 24 Hour Super Market in NYC. Where was your Grandparents Store. Irwin ← Just my grandmother's store, she bought it I guess around 1930, after my grandfather died (probably with his life insurance), and had it until about 1960-61. Anyway, it was at 863 Southern Blvd. near Tiffany Street. The building it was in no longer exists. I remember that my first ambition in life was to be a candy-store lady, like my Bubby. I should have followed through! ← Cakewalk: I think your Grandmothers store was between "163rd & Westchester Avenue located near the "Spooner Theatre" on Southern Blvd. Tiffany Street runs into Westchester Ave not Southern Blvd. Pretty sure she had a outside service window that served Lime Rickey's, Egg Creams, Charlotte Russe's. It used to be a busy Shopping Street. I lived in the area until 1955 and may have a photo of me taken inside the store when I was 13 years old. Irwin Irwin

Traveling down memory lane. Does anyone still make these "NYC" seasonal treats. "Cherry Lime Rickeys" used to be lined up in the windows of fountains with 1/2 Squeezed fresh Lime and Cherry Syrup were served with Seltzer or Cola added. "Lemonade" with 1 Whole Fresh Lemon Squeezed in a Glass with Simple Syrup that was served with Water or Seltzer, your choice. "Charlotte Russe" Base of Sponge Cake, Whipped Cream and a Cherry on top kept in a Glass Case. They were always lined up ready for customers to order, drink or eat and enjoy. It wasn't unusual to see rows on display ready for service. Of course the "Egg Cream" was always popular. These were even sold in NYC's "Woolworth" and "Kresge" together with another specialty of "Chop Suey" on a Bun. Irwin

That's brilliant. My grandmother owned a candy store on Southern Blvd. I was just a kid when she sold it, but I remember it. And I remember the egg creams. No eggs, no cream. Ever. Foxx's U-bet syrup for sure, no one would even dream of using anything else. I think the pressure of the seltzer coming out of the fountain had a lot to do with the "head" on the eggcream. Oh my, they were so good. But the condensed milk, now that's a great idea. ← I grew up on Southern Blvd. Between 163rd Street/Hunts Point up to Freeman Street was familiar with all the Candy Stores. My Uncle owned the "Associated Supermarket" on Westchester Ave and Simpson Street it was the first 24 Hour Super Market in NYC. Where was your Grandparents Store. Irwin

The one thing I know about Traditional New York City "Egg Creams" contrary to the article written by "Gastronomic" is that "EGG CREAMS" have never contained any eggs or cream. My Uncle Boris owned and operated a corner "Luncheonette Soda Fountain" with a double open street serving window, started by his family on the corner of 2nd Avenue and I thing 6th [ just north of "Ratners"] in the early 1900's that for all I know may still be in business. They were famous for their "Egg Creams" that were voted as NYC's best Egg Cream not that long ago in the New York Magazine [Cue?] and in many other publications thru the years. My Uncle attributed the drink being so special due to his "Secret Formula" always used at the shop that made their Egg Creams so special and better tasting then others. He always used as most Fountains have "Fox's U'bet Chocolate Syrup" to which he added to each Gallon 1 can of Sweetened Condensed Milk. This Chocolate Syrup was then poured onto the Bottom of a Fountain Glass with a Float of Milk topping the Syrup. Seltzer [Carbonated NYC Water] was added to this bouncing off a long Fountain Spoon held on the side of the glass until it was full with a Head of the Milk rising to the top in Foam. After the Foam settled the Syrup was stirred and mixed into the Seltzer resulting into a NYC Egg Cream. This was done with many ways of filling the glass, but the better places always made sure the finished Egg Cream always had a White Crown and a Chocolaty Bottom but only at one place was the Sweetened Condensed Milk added. Now the eGulleter's are privy to his secret formula after 100 years. I introduced it into Hong Kong at my "Lindy's" in 1965 where it became popular. Irwin

I am responding to this post about your, "NYC" best Chinese Dumplings. Having the privilege of enjoying the offerings of "Jade 46" with Jason and Rachel I went on several excursions into a wonderful special neighborhood of Asian goodness that has evolved in "Flushing, Queens, NYC" where I enjoyed superlative Chinese Regional Dumplings at 11 different nameless Restaurants that I feel were comparable to the Dumplings offered in Vancouver, BC and Hong Kong. It is amazing how in a comparably short time there have evolved a community where almost every type of Asian Foods are represented as well as Indian, Mexican, South American, Spanish and many European Ethnic Foods of every type are available within a relatively close radius. Just grazing we enjoyed snacking on Muslim Kabobs [waiting on line street side], Korean Mon Doo, Malay, Hakka, Cantonese, Shanghai, Peking, Indian, Vegan, Taiwan, Szchewan, Vietnam and Manchurian Treats only touching the surface of all available in only a few blocks. The only comparable area I have experienced was at night in Hong Kong at Temple and Shanghai Streets in Kowloon but never before anywhere in the States. Wiggling Room only at 11:30 PM on the streets any weekend ? Vancouver BC may offer some of the finest Chinese Food anywhere, but I feel that is mostly due to Canada's more reasonable Customs and imports allowing many items to be used not available in the States. San Francisco, Los Angeles and Seattle are no longer comparable to NYC especially if you include Brooklyn and China Town. It would be interesting if eGullet could somehow find a way to make us all more aware of this special place in Queens. Irwin

Paula: I was always bewildered by the conservative approach and lack of imagination attributed to "Customers Expectations" in the majority of Middle Eastern Restaurants that I was involved with thru the years. Especially the "Moroccan" types of operations it seemed that they preferred serving dishes that did not take into consideration a Cuisine that has more sublimities, nuances and excellent combinations of Citrus, Spices, Olives and Seeds married together but ignored by Restaurateurs. Hopefully this is now slowly coming to evolve to something better. The influence of France, Spain and Africa is transcended into the foods of "Morocco" in a most agreeable manner. I actually sent copies of your "Couscous Cook Book" during the 1970's & 1980's [then in paperback] to all the Middle Eastern operators we had relationships with asking then "WHY" not serve some of these wonderful dishes to almost no avail. It seemed like "Belly Dancing & Booze" were considered the profit centers and Food was secondary, but that seems to finally be changing. Your mention of "Craig Claiborne" brings to mind his always relating to his ability to do his best to provide his readers and guests a combination of what he felt they anticipated making every occasion a comforting learning experience. He was like that in public and at his 57th Street Residence, only more relaxed in the Hampton's. On his initial visit to Hong Kong he was overwhelmed with the variety and the crowds everywhere, but when we took him to a "Pigeon" Restaurant in Shatin he wrote about it, comparing the Pigeon" with some he enjoyed in Morocco. I have enjoyed reading about the "Real Harissa" and the "Couscous" on the other thread and hope that this will encourage putting these items into more menus. egullet is always a "Learning Experience" at your fingertips. Irwin

Wolfert: The "Lentil"s or any "Dried Beans" certainly enhance and stabilize the flavors especially after Toasting as is done with the Spices. The reason that we decided not to include the Beans or any Starch in the Restaurant Style "Harissa" was that they tended to Ferment the Sauce if left to long at room temperature. At home where i keep the "Harissa" under Refrigeration I use the Beans as well as Fresh Garlic and Onions Crisped by Deep Frying in Oil then adding to the "Harissa" mixture. In preparing the recipe we were able to keep the consistency similar to the sauce that is generally sold in Metal Tubes. Another item that I personally prefer to use in place of the Cayenne Pepper is Available at most Asian Grocers at a reasonable price. [About $2.99 lb] This is "Korean Style" Course Ground Red Pepper used in preparing "Kim Chee". The Brand I now have it home is: "Wang" but almost all are similar in price and quality. I use this in making many kinds of Barbecue and Hot Sauces as it's consistent in quality. Irwin

I tried adapting for several "Moroccan Restaurants" that opened in the States several years ago a "Harissa" recipe that they were interested in utilizing similar to the most popular type of Harissa generally available in America markets. "Harissa le cabanon" made in France by Le Cabanon SA in Camerat France. Contents are: Pimentos [Red Peppers], Vegetables, Garlic, Salt, Coriander, Caraway Seed, Vegetable Oil, Modified Corn Flour, Citric Acid to modify acid as a regulator. This Harissa is pretty mild to my taste, but very popular. I'm sure that the Vegetables are Tomato Paste, Onions and fine ground dried Lentils. This we were able to surmise after testing and breaking down the actual product. Wolfret's Harissa is much more delicious , authentic and better tasting but the criteria of my customers at that time was to put together a "Harissa" as close as possible to the "le cabanon" brand as they thought this is what their customers were familiar with, basically they wanted to be able to make a Harissa themselves at a more reasonable price then buying the imported Harissa. Our results exceeded their criteria and it's still being used at many of the Restaurants still operating in major metropolitan areas in the States. Our recipe follows: INGREDIENTS: Pimentos [Canned] Ground Cayenne Pepper Whole Black Pepper Seeds Whole Coriander Whole Caraway Seeds Tomato Paste Dried Garlic Dried Chopped Onions Aji No Moto [MSG] Vegetable Oil Olive Oil Leaf Parsley PREPARATION: First put Vegetable Oil into a Cast Iron or Heavy Weight Pre-Heated Pan. Add your Coriander, Black Pepper and Caraway Seeds and allow to only begin to Brown, then add Ground Cayenne Pepper keep Stirring until Oil turns Red. Immediately remove from heat and let stand until cool adding some Aji No Moto stirring until dissolved. Next Heat up Vegetable Oil in Heavy Pan then add Dried Garlic and Onions when they start to brown immediately stir in Pimentos, Leaf Parsley and Tomato Paste keep stirring about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes remove from Heat and let stand until cool after adding Aji No Moto until dissolved. After both Pans are cooled to Room Temperature Drain and reserve the Oil from the Pan containing the Spices and Seeds. Next Grind the drained ingredients in a Spice Mill, Blender or Food Processor until fine and reserve. Next Drain and reserve the Oil from the 2nd Pan. Place the Ingredients into a Food processor, Pulsing until the are ground together but not into as fine a mixture as the Spices. In a large Stainless Steel container Mix the 2 ingredients according to your personal taste together, adding the Hot Red Oil or the Vegetable Oil until it tastes the way you enjoy it best that way when you make this the next time you will be able to easily adjust the amount of each ingredient. We use "MSG" in place of salt as a preservative as well as to enhance the taste in a natural manner if you prefer you can use salt but always consider that this type of condiment is expected to keep well without being refrigerated, the pimentos provide sweetness and body without adding any sugar. The Dried Onions and Garlic are more consistent plus their flavors are enhanced by the Hot Oil and MSG. If anyone has any questions please PM me or post and I'll respond. I couldn't give the exact amount of each ingredient as my former customers gave me permission to provide the recipe and ingredients in only a general manner, but it's easy to adjust by simply buying a tube of the original and tasting until you've put together a "Harissa' you like. It's actually not difficult and it's something that add's well to liven up many dishes. Irwin

I'm pretty sure the the original "Hamburger Mary's" opened on Kuhio Avenue in Honolulu, Hi. For many years they served some of the best Burgers in Honolulu plus Veggie Favorites and Salads at meal time to a mixed crowd that became predominantly Gay at night when the Disc Jockey's began and the Back Bar opened. Irwin

I have posted about "Jin Mi" previously and find it very pleasant with good food and service. especially for take out orders. There are several new and established Korean Restaurants along Aurora/99 all the way up into Everett. I try them whenever I'm in the mood and often luck out. There is a good "Soft Tofu" Restaurant in Edmond's next to the Ukrainian/Russian Deli that makes very good pancakes and Soft Tofu comparable to "Hosoonyi". I've been disappointed several times at the "Four Seasons" with the Korean Dishes and Sushi. I haven't tried the Korean Restaurant located in the International District in the Bush Hotel has anyone else tried the food? I feel that Lakewood in Pierce County may offer some of the best Korean Restaurants on the West Coast. Irwin

Just purchased a bottle of, "96" Dom at Sam's Club for $88.87 plus [6] Roderers Anderson Valley Brut at $16.87 per bottle for a NY Eve Toast. Wasn't considering the Dom but price was reasonable and have special occasion coming soon. Irwin

There is a new Traditional style Korean Restaurant that I have enjoyed several times eating in and for take out as well. "Hae-Nam Kalbi & Calamari" is located at 15001 Aurora Avenue, open 11:00 AM - 11:30 PM Sunday -Thursday and 11:00 AM - 1:30 AM on Friday and Saturday. The serve many items Grilled Table side as well as Kitchen prepared. The "Mahn-Doo" served in Soup are made in House from Scratch, as well as their "Kim Chee's". The staff is very pleasant and attentive. There are "Tatami Tables" as well and the place is very nice even though located in a small strip mall. I enjoy eatting at most of Seattle's Korean places and feel this on is a step above the rest. Almost as good as some of the places located in "Lakewood". Irwin