wesza

Thank you Michael, even though "Schmulka Bernstein's" had enough longevity on the lower east side to have originally opened as a Sausage Maker before evolving into a Deli and then into NYC original Kosher Chinese Restaurant still selling the Deli items. It certainly was unusual wearing so many hats. Where else were you able to order a Pastrami Sandwich together with Moo Goo Gai Pan, Egg Foo Yung, Mushroom & Barley Soup and Potato Latkas. Another of NYC's favorite was "Egg Foo Yung" in all it various guises always came with a tasty gloopy brown gravy. There were special heavier cast iron "Woks" made for cooking this omelet with several sections to hold Egg Foo Yung that I'm sure were never sold anywhere else as I never enjoyed anything similar in Hong Kong. It was once very popular in New York and all over the East Coast. In Seattle I have only found one place that prepares Egg Foo Yung similar to the NYC taste. Students everywhere ordered it as it was the cheapest most filling dish on most menus that came with Egg Drop Soup, Rice and Ice Cream or Jello often less expensive then a Burger. Irwin

Etrog are also used by the Chinese in much more elaborate forms then those regularly used during Sukkot. I have a Chinese Ivory Screen from 1712 AD that commemorates the Chinese New Year displaying all the New Year Flowers and Fruits. On one of the 6 panels there is a Beautiful Carved Ivory Etog with a very special shape [by the Chinese]. In Hong Kong and I'm sure thru out China they are available often sold in individual boxes and the more unusual the shape the higher they cost. Those that appear more like fingers are often given to children as presents for them to hold and enjoy the lovely aroma. When I have more time I will look thru my files to find out more information about them. It wouldn't surprise me if they were introduced by the Jewish Traders who plied the "Spice Routes" into Europe and Asia Minor. Irwin

Just thought that I would mention that one of the oldest dishes served in the New York City Chinese Restaurants [1930's] was called "Moo Goo Gai Pan" a Boneless Sliced White Meat Chicken dish mostly served with Black Mushrooms and Snow Pea Pods Sautéed with a Thickened Chicken Broth with small amount of Soy Sauce. I don't think there was any Restaurant that didn't serve this item. Most New Yorkers were introduced to "Snow Peas" thru this dish. Chinese Restaurants ordered these Peas as "Dutch Peas" or "Mangetouts" from suppliers for many years. It was right up there with Chicken Chow Mein, Subgum Chicken, Roast Pork, Barbecued Spareribs, Egg Rolls and Lobster Cantonese or Shrimp with Lobster Sauce as a family favorite. Curious if it's still popular in NYC. It was a best seller at New Yorks first Chinese Restaurant "Schmulka Bernstein's" so it still may be offered. [without Oyster Sauce] Irwin

Costco's Chickens are the best value they are much larger, juicy, slightly salted better finished that anyone else in Seattle except Restaurants. [Le Pichet is my favorite] The Whole Foods Birds are taste very good, but are Roasted from very young smaller Chickens that only weigh about 2 1/2 pounds dressed. At a price of $9.99 each they are very expensive [2 Costco Chickens]. There is a French name for this size bird [Pousons ?] They have small wings, legs and thighs. Irwin

I'm posting a bit later then I anticipated as I've been inundated the last few days, however since I was honored to be given the allocate of "Toastmaster" I want to wish our "Birthday Boy" He's younger then me by 6 1/2 years plus he's a "Horse" and I'm a "Rat" on the Chinese New Year calender. It ironical that this topic required diplomacy and understanding to retain it's status on eGullet but I'm not sure if everyone is aware that our subject has dedicated his career to exactly that subject. Being a diplomat requires finesse and expertise in giving and taking subjectively. I'm sure that our Birthday Banquet/Celebration was a eGullet first and most likely the one best attributed to diplomacy. What I feel is the most important, special and unique about him is his ability to remember and share with everyone on eGullet a world that practically no longer exists that eventually may be important to the majority of Chinese immigrants in Canada and the United States as well as Hong Kong who came from the Toysan region of China. I have attempted researching many foods from the region, but learned more about, or was brought back to so many memories of various foods and dishes thru his postings. I'm sure that we all hope that he will put his memoir's into print as it appears that this isn't being done as it may become lost in the generation gap. He's multi-lingual in English, French and Chinese with a office located in a City in New Brunswick Canada that surrounded by more Saints they anywhere else on the maps. [even a Notre Dame] In his profession at 63 years old he's at his prime. as in most governments older statesmen don't retire they are constantly recycled as their advice and experience are a real asset. Even one of his most recent posting is instructive. Chinese hunters eat game birds when they are very fresh to enjoy the natural flavors and character. English, French or European hunters prefer to hang their game birds to ripen so they can enjoy them cooked rare in that state. I'm sure that someone can make sense out of this observation, but I have served, and enjoyed eating them fresh, but never been able to even attempt to taste them after being hung proper. One thing I am sure of is that the traditional Chinese way almost always tastes better. Therefore my Toast is: "Please keep giving, as we need your learned advice and thoughts. We all feel honored to share them with you and look foward to enjoy many birthdays together." I would like to thank everyone who brought this topic together, especially "Dejah" whose magical capabilities were brought to our attention by Ben, hzrt8w and Teepee for her birthday cake that was able to light up the screens on all our computers. Irwin

hzrt8w: I am delighted about your approach to preparing Chinese Dishes in a considerably more healthy modern manner with almost magical applications proving less is more. I feel that in most larger Chinese Communities a Restaurant serving dishes in the manner your showing us all at eGullet would appeal to the younger more health conscious Asian community. You prefer to cook in a manner that results in a better tasting finished dish that is more healthy, looks delicious prepared with finesse. It would even appeal to the many health aware Grandma's and even a Grandpa [me] as well. Keep up the, "Good Imaginative Adaptable Work" we will all benefit. Irwin

In Hong Kong there are different variations of "Roast Duck". The one step that is universally applied is to allow the duck to hang vertical after blanching with circulating [fan] air until it sets and dries before finishing. Many places to provide crispy skin use the air pump method to loosen the skin on the carcass. With Peking Duck the Ducks are dressed differently with a minimal opening that is sewed closed so that the Duck is almost air tight. The blanching and air drying are also more extensive. They are only served as Whole Duck in most Restaurants in the classical traditional manner of three courses with only the Soup sometimes being different. The only place I have ever seen a 1/2 Peking Duck served is at some American Restaurants, but I have never ordered it that way myself. The Regular Duck that is prepared only at Restaurants that specialize in Roasting and Barbecue Items is dressed regularly with a opening. They are lightly seasoned and placed on extended Steel Skewers for hanging in a vertical Roast Oven. A Water pan is placed at the bottom of the oven to catch the fat as it drips from the Ducks sending steam that keeps the Ducks moist and allow the Fats to drip from the Birds. When the Ducks are about 3/4 Roasted they are then Brushed or Wiped with a Glaze that different at most Roasters but often contains Sorghum, Maltose, Sugar, Treacle, Dark or Superior Soy Sauce, Honey, Five Spice and especially some Apricot Jam or Puree. This gives the Ducks there Shiny , Glazed Exterior and lets the Skin tighten up and Crisps. These Ducks have always been my favorite, and keep their taste as long as they aren't refrigerated just hanging ready to be cut up and served. The other most common method used is that done at Hawkers/Tai Pai Tungs or Restaurants that are not located near to a Roaster but wish to serve Duck dishes. The Ducks are done the same as for the Roasters, including being placed on vertical type skewers. The cooking process is different as these Ducks are cooked individually in a large deep Wok by Baste Frying partially covered in Hot Oil. Ducks are constantly held by the end of the vertical skewer placed over the hot oil so that they are always being rotated and basted by the oil that drips down the carcass from top draining to the bottom. The Cook is skilled and lets each Duck Cook according to its fat content and how moist the exterior feels during Basting. When they are about 1/2 finished the Ducks are held hanging on a rack long enough to set the meat and juices. They are then Brushed and Wiped with a similar base used by the Roasters, returned to hang until the Glazed exteriors stop dripping. The final step is to place the Ducks into another Wok with a higher temperature of oil, where they are continued to be Baste Fried only long enough until the skin tightens up and the exterior sets it's glaze. They are then hung up again and allowed to cool. In many smaller places this final step is only done when they receive a order from a customer. In many Chinese/European Style Restaurants that serve Roast Duck the carcass is split, backbone and ribs removed and the Duck is reheated and served with a complimentary sauce such as Roast Ducking with Cherry Sauce or whatever. It the main reason the Roast Duck tastes better at Hong Kong restaurants then even in Europe or France. Goose may be prepared the same way but in Hong Kong and Taiwan "Chiu Chow Braised Goose", Rules served sliced over Clotted Goose Blood with a Garlic Vinegar Dipping Sauce. Hope this explains about the variations of Duck being served in Hong Kong, and the Goose Dish I miss most. Even though it's now almost midnight in Seattle I now need to drive down to the International District where I will order several orders of "Roast Duck Mai Fun" as a night supper treat. Irwin

I have been enjoying the decadence of trying at least 8 varieties of Garlic's that I purchased during my first visit to the Okenogan Area. I spent lots of time trying to find Huckleberries to no avail, but on our last day stopped at a Road side stall where they had large bags of assorted fresh garlic for sale. The vendor advised it was mostly early harvest "Russian Red". This find certainly made up for not finding the Huckleberries. The Peaches, Nectarines and Fresh un-hulled green Walnuts we are still enjoying plus all types of Apples. What made the whole adventure so special was all the information provided by eGulletiers, especially "Arne" for his timely posts. The US Customs was very understanding allowing us to return from Canada with all or goodies from the trip. It was a surprise as we weren't sure if this type of foods were permitted across the border returning to Seattle. The "Fresh Harvested Garlic" is a daily reminder of our journey as I seem to gravitate toward the Garlic Bin almost every time a meal approaches. It's still so pungent, flavorful and delicious that I have even made it into a spread with Sweet Butter, Italian Parsley, Pine Nuts, White Pepper and Parmesan Cheese that finds it way on to morning Bagels, Lunch Sandwiches and Toasted Baguette at Dinner. The "Russian Red" that I learned about after searching the Internet is a type of Garlic that is perfect for use at Restaurants that I have not seen available commercially. [Vancouver Restaurants check it out] The Walnuts we brought still in their outer Shell taste much better then the Husked Whole or Peeled sold regularly. They are sweet, buttery and mild, again delicious browned slightly in the oven or pan lightly sprayed with butter and used for salads. Next fall I'm timing my trip to take advantage of the "Simikameen Valley's" Garlic Harvest. It will be more fun then the Banquets I prepared for the Gilroy, California's Garlic Festival where we served several hundred guests daily a 8 course Garlic Dinner using Garlic in every dish. It would be fun to attempt something similar together with eGulletiers who I have been advised are all over the area for the "WINE" Hunting Season. Grapes are Grapes, but Garlic stays with you longer. Combined it takes us all to a higher level. Bet only very few know that these a Portuguese Wine that compliments Garlic as it's petulant, sec and avoids the after effects of over indulgence. Not if we can get someone to grow the grapes in the Okenogan we could have a marriage made in heaven. Irwin

Something else should be also considered about these "Turkeys" since they are advertised as being "Enhanced" by a special basting base. Putting this explanation into real talk it means that from 15/20 of the Turkeys weight is injected to assure the tender, delicious result in the finished bird. It also means purchasers are paying about $10.00 per pound for whatever they are pumping into the Turkeys. Considering this 20 pounds of Bird can contain 4 pounds of whatever. Realistically it often means Tri-Sodium Phosphate, Oil, Flavorings, Salt, some type of Glutamate, Sugar, Protein binders similar to those used to provide the "Butterball Experience". I recommend putting your money into purchasing the best Organic Free Range 100% natural Turkey, letting it hang in your kitchen with a fan blowing fresh air for about a hour before roasting to drain, dry and set then Roasting the Bird at a low temperature [about 225 degrees] until the internal temperature of the bird is about 140/145 degrees then raising the temperature to 375 degrees to brown and finish the exterior while basting. Probe the thickest part of the bird, if the juices flow clear without any color your bird is done. Remove from the oven and always allow the bird to rest for 20/30 minutes to set. It's then ready to be carved and served. Consider that most Kosher Turkeys [Empire] have already been Koshered [brined] prior to being packed and sold retail, they also are of better quality since they much be each checked by a religious professional as to quality, cleanliness and health of the bird during the entire process. I don't generally use Kosher since I personally prefer cooking with little or no salt, but many like the taste that brining provides to meats and poultry. At Holidays I feel that it's the time to eat traditionally and Turkeys prepared without any enhancements to me taste better. The toughest Turkey that I have ever eaten was a 22 pounder that my son-in-law got bow hunting several years ago. It was carefully bled and dressed in the field, then iced and taken home but after trying my best to prepare it for a dinner it was still tougher then a stewing hen, but tasted good after lots of chewing. Next time Turkey Jerky. Since inquiring minds need to know I may purchase one just for the opportunity of comparing it with a natural bird. Irwin

I would like to wager that I can make a better "Roasted Turkey" for Christmas then the type described and being sold at crazy prices. I'm willing to bet a trip to England all expenses paid that I'm right since I was involved with a similar project with a University School or Agriculture, Poultry Growers and others where we used Amish Turkeys, several eastern turkey farmers from New Jersey and Pennsylvania and other well known providers. All the Turkeys were delivered to us for comparison both Fresh or Frozen purchased anonymously. We had over 100 samples ranging from 18 to 39 pounds dressed. We also had 30 Turkeys that we hung in a aging box from hooks with circulated controlled air and humidity. None of the Turkeys were brined or injected, or soaked as is now mostly done with additives with USDA approval. The Turkeys that were hung were by far the best tasting after Roasting, more juicy, tender with character. The other Turkeys after thawing under refrigeration and the Refrigerated Birds roasted with the same seasonings at controlled temperature were judged to have little variation but the larger the bird the better they tasted. The brands that had larger breasted birds looked better tableside but the dark meat was drier due to needing more time to finish due to the larger denser breasts. All the Hung Birds cooked more evenly and the fats seemed to baste the meat better with almost all draining off during roasting. The previously frozen birds retained more fat after roasting. What convinced me about how the best "Turkey" was prepared was by visiting England that same year we did the Turkey Testing. I visited for the Christmas Holidays where I went with my host to pick up our Christmas Turkey from the Smithfield Market. I was surprised to learn that our bird had been hanging with all it's feathers on the wall of the market stall since it had been selected live at the end of November, dressed except for feathers and wall hung [stalls are all open, but covered] with several hundred Christmas Turkeys and Geese all to be de-feathered, tied and prepared for roasting when picked up for the Holidays. It seems that almost all the wall spaces are reserved for the same buyers in advance for years with most stalls having a waiting list. Game Birds are also hung for quite a while before being dressed, especially grouse. I sat down for Christmas dinner with reticence since I thought that I wasn't ready to enjoy hung poultry having experienced Mallards Pressed" and the "Queens Grouse" at the Four Seasons Restaurant Kitchens in New York City that I wasn't fond off eating. I was awed with my first taste of incredible Turkey it was like no other poultry I had ever eaten previously much better then any of the birds we tested in Ithaca before Thanksgiving. Thru the years I learned more about the hanging process. The temperature from late November until Christmas at the markets averages from 24 degrees Fahrenheit to about 37 degrees daily. The Birds are rotated and checked regularly and if there is a prolonged cold stretch they could be refrigerated to prevent freezing, but its almost never. When rotating the feathers are always checked by pulling and if they come out to easily the birds are dressed and kept at a semi-freezing temperature until getting picked up by customers. Since this has been effective for some many years I'm sure it still continues. So since it's early enough to place my order for Christmas are there any takers for my wager. I have dressed and hung organically raised free range turkeys several times thru the years hoping to copy the versions I have enjoyed at least 6 times in London but never succeeded. The closest I have come was by using a Ban-Bac system that was very close but still not equal. Kosher Turkeys do have more "THUM ! [but there's still a trick to make them taste better] Irwin

The Soup when served is very clear with a oily surface caused naturally from the ingredients. Since the two separate parts of the Soup are sealed and simmered in clay pots for several days at a low temperature, then put together and layered into a Porcelain serving bowl everything is very tender with the exception of the Abalone that unless sliced fresh and pounded remains firm but delicious. What I remember most from that party was the Live Prawns that were presented to our table before being steamed and served, each whole Fat [roe] Prawn weighed 22/26 ounces. [in excess of 1 catty] This soup cost in excess of $220.00 dollars years ago for a table of 12 guests, charging $65.00 per person [generally 10/12 persons] in 2005 doesn't sound excessive. I'm sure that if the same quality Abalone [Dried] and Sharks Fin was used it would at least double the prices. The better quality [more expensive] Abalone and Sharks Fin are reserved for the Hong Kong and Shanghai markets if anything of that quality is needed in Canada or the United States it needs to be special ordered and flown in for customers. There are few modern Chinese Restaurants that have the space or burners available to accommodate these types of dishes. In Hong Kong and China most kitchens have a back or outside area that's often used for simmering or preparing special items ordered for parties separate from the main kitchen. In Chinese Parties it not unusual that the Soup is the most expensive item on the menu. Irwin

If I'm not mistaken this dish was previously mentioned on eGullet several years ago under the topic "Fukienese Cuisine" when "Eddie" was the moderator. Since at that time I was only lurking and wasn't semi-retired I couldn't post but am sure it was mentioned. My experience with "Buddha Jumping over the Wall" was learned when I lived in Hong Kong and occurred when we were preparing a Menu for a friends 40th Birthday Party at the Kingfisher Restaurant in Kowloon. I was surprised to learn that 2 Special Chefs would be assigned to prepare the menu for our Tabletop party of 12 guests and it was anticipated to take several days to prepare all the dishes being ordered in Cantonese by my Chinese friend. The special soup being served was priced according to the quality of ingredients being ordered for it's preparation. This required purchasing Sharks Fin and Abalone from a special shop who brought samples for us to choose from for the dinner. The "Abalone" consider prober for the dish was priced according to size, color and quality from about US $15.00 to over US $ 140.00 per piece [one piece centers the soup] we choose a piece that cost about $60.00. Next came the "Sharks Fin" again the type of Cartilage, Size and Type of Fin depended on the price that ranged from about $18.00 to over $300.00. Since it was for a 40th Birthday a piece was recommended that weighed dry about 1 pound, but could be cut into continuous long thin strands for good fortune for the birthday celebration this piece cost $135.00. We also selected the "Sea Cucumber", Mushrooms, Yunnan Ham and Ordered Black Footed Chicken the Restaurant assured us that we would get a choice Duck, Fresh Pig Foot, Quails Eggs and everything else of excellent quality for the occasion. The soup would be covered by a "Superior Double Cooked Stock" made from fresh Chicken Wings, Chicken Feet together with Pork Back and Neck Bones. The Sharks Fin was prepared separately and added to the Soup before serving. The Soup with the other ingredients was Sealed into a Clay Pot and simmered for several days prior to serving. Before the Soup was served it was assembled into a Porcelain Bowl with items placed in layer for appearance with the Whole Abalone and Sharks Fin being the centerpiece. The Chef removed the Abalone then sliced it thin placing it into 12 individual bowls together with the Sharks Fin for the initial serving of the Soup, next serving included all the other ingredients together. It was a interesting presentation with the Soup being the center of attraction. In my estimation it was delicious but more fatty then I prefer. At future parties I always requested having either a special Shark Fin Soup or Shark Fin with Fat Crab Soup that seemed more enjoyable. I also preferred serving Abalone Braised with Duck Feet as a separate dish that everyone enjoyed. Since these prices were what was charged about 30 years ago allowing for inflation it would be more expensive in 2005 but it always depends on the ingredients selected. I hope this clarifies about the variations in pricing of different types of Chinese Dishes. Even live fish [Horsehead Grouper] that are sold after weighing can be unbelievably expensive in Hong Kong. The most expensive Restaurants in Hong Kong were those that only sold Live Seafood, where it was very rare to see any Europeans or Americans as they were considered to expensive for foreigners. The most expensive item served in Hong Kong was a soup prepared from certain "Ginsing Roots" growing into unusual shapes in mountain crevasse that could cost more then a expensive automobile. Irwin

While visiting Vancouver recently I was attracted to a established Chinese Restaurant that had the right feel and ambiance for a late night wind down type of place similar to many in Hong Kong, San Francisco, Seattle or anywhere with a proliferation of Chinese Restaurants. Sort of tacky but busy with no pretensions. Since I have spent so many years eating out after working dinner or lunch shifts at busy restaurants I always am attracted to places open late at night that feel right. It not unusual for food services workers to require a place to meet or eat after work and I'm glad that I found such a place in Vancouver. The place I stumbled on is named: "On Lok Restaurant & Wonton House" located at, 2010 East Hastings open from 11:00 AM until 2:00 AM or later. It has parking, with a left side "Roast Window" and right side "Congee/Noodle Window" with cashier next to Roast Display. The prices are very reasonable compared to the other places I tried in Vancouver but the portions are very generous, service is quick and items such as Sui Kow or Kup Dai Congee are very acceptable. We enjoyed late snacks there and brought back to our room at the "Sylvia Hotel" Congees and Fried Bread for Breakfast. I was not surprised at the amount of workers stopping in to have a meal during the time we were eating at the place as I didn't see many places that were open so late as busy. I will ad that Vancouver and the Okenagan [Fruit Season] areas are now my favorite places to visit for eating out. Irwin

Here ya go...click ← Thank you, "petite tete de chou" My postings on the topic are the last [final ?] two posts currently on the thread "Triple Cooked Chips". Sometimes I feel like the thread terminator. Irwin

Mangus: I posted previously on the "Cooking" thread on June 02, 2005 Posting # 936850 on the Topic of: Triple Cooked Chips The answer of how to prepare "French Fries" of the quality you require consistantly. Sorry that I don't know how to enter the site attachment to this posting. Irwin moderator note: link here Triple Cooked Chips

In Seattle we are fortunate to have several markets that import "Awa Awa" or "Milkfish" fresh. It can be purchased whole or it is made into a base for Fishcakes at the markets using the traditional method. You simply utilize a Tablespoon/Desert Spoon to squeeze or press out the Meat from the Fish, keeping a eye out for the occasional small bones that sneak into the paste. Once you get going it's easier then it sounds. This is the species of Fish thats considered the best tasting for fish balls in most of Asia. Many recipes mix it with Corn Starch, Rice Starch or Tapioca Starch to make it bind easier, but thats optional. When we make ours I like to add fine diced Ginger, Garlic, Shredded Carrots and White Pepper. If we intend to Fry by making into Patties I add some Whisked whole Eggs and Fine Ground Saltines into the Mixture and allow to set for over one hour in the coldest part of the refrigerator. [The cracker crumbs don't effect the taste only make it taste moister and better] Then we place the paste a plastic shopping bag that been split in half covering the paste and flattening it between the plastic into the thickness preferred. Lift off the top of the plastic bag, using a cookie cutter or a tuna can of whatever dimension you prefer for your Fishcakes cut the out and place on a lightly floured cookie sheet or whatever. Lightly flour the exposed tops of the fishcakes and place them into preheated oil, frying them until the edges brown, turn and finish cooking. We put the finished cakes onto a Kraft paper to absorb the oil then put into a warm oven on a platter until ready to serve. If you check the ingredients on most commercial fish cakes you will notice that they generally containing some type of stabilizer or thickening agent. We also fry the Fishcake Mixture by making into little balls then adding them to a Clear broth before serving. My grandchildrens favorite. The Fishcake mixture mixed with Ground Pork and Salt Fish then steamed together topped with Salted Eggs tastes terrific with Rice for Breakfast. Irwin

Doc-G: I suggest that you check the Australian/New Zealand Export Meat Guides [i tried checking but it takes two long to download on ISP]. In Australia there are "Kosher Butchers" that break the forequarter and sell retail very similar "Whole Briskets" comparable to the USA Kosher Briskets suitable for smoking. There are containers of Briskets being exported regularly into the United States, being cut to American Meat guide specifications. Any exporter should be able to supply your requirement of a "Packer Brisket" or similar cut. [There "Jobber" or "Close Trimmed"] Since I don't have a guide handy I remember that even the Domestic Australian Guides have "Brisket" in Boneless/Deckle Off. Whole with 10 Ribs, Navel End and several other variations. The Navel End in used for Pastrami Traditionally. In the American Meat Guides [uSDA] the show how the Brisket is butchered for commercial use: The Brisket most favored for smokers is called the "Packer Cut" it has more exterior fat then the Briskets used for Corned Beef, but smokers prefer the extra fat at it gives the meat more flavor smoking especially since it should smoke long enough at a low temperature to allow the collagen to break down slowly the extra fat avoids drying out during the process. Most smokers often turn the Beef as the majority of fat lays on the top of the Brisket. If this doesn't get you the necessary information I will be returning home next week where I have a Australian Meat Guide and look up the information. Good luck and please post about your results on eGullet. Irwin

I don't know how I managed to post twice. My New York persona always attempt a "ONE UP" but I'm very sorry it happened twice. Please excuse me but it never happened before in over 800 + postings. Irwin

We "WESZA" are synonymous with Asia since way before "BC" [not British Columbia] my tribal Family had a community in the thousands living in "Peking" ever since they originated the "Spice Routes" thru out Asia and India over a thousand years before "AD". The "Navigators" who began traveling by the "Reading Stars" and invented the "Sextant" were Jews from Asia Minor who formed Trading Posts in "Goa", the "Straits", "China" and "Japan". This is the same closed "Society of Navigators" who navigated the infamous "Black Ships" and developed the Spice Trading" controlled by the Portuguese for many years. The "European Influence into Asia and the New World only occurred due to the Spanish Inquisition when it began in Portugal caused the "Navigators" to emigrate to Holland that opened up the Dutch, French and English explorations. The major European Food Influence in Asia was due to the Portuguese who brought Bread Baking to Japan [Pan] as well as "Tempura" [Fried in Oil] via Bakers who jumped Ship in Okinawa who opened Bakeries. In China and Japan the Steamed Sponge used for Cakes plus Egg Tarts, Curry Puffs, Fried Bread and many Sweets can also be attributed to the Portuguese Influence. Even the word "WESZA" is true simplification as it's one of the easiest words to spell for a one fingered typist. My most important influence to the Asian Community was done by importing Millions of Pounds of Chicken Feet and as many Duck Feet as available into Asia for over 20 + years from both the USA and Canada. I'm also guilty of Importing Whipped Cream Type Substitutes, American Beef [live to Japan], Poultry plus 3 different types of live Poultry and live Chicks, those with Black Feet, Yellow Feet and White Feet for different markets some more expensive and popular then others just because of smart re-sellers. Even many types of Restaurants, Hotels and Bakeries into the Hong Kong market including 7 types of well known ethnic Chinese, American and European operations still prospering today including NYC Cheesecake and Deli Sandwiches. Ever since my Mother began Labor in a Bronx, NYC Chinese Restaurant I am guilty of being a student of all ethnic cuisines, especially Asian, being involved in all aspects from the front of the house, into the back and even developing under utilized species worldwide. Thank you for putting my influence into more areas by becoming a "Banana"as it compliments my "INSCRUTABLE PERSONA" with a bright coloring effect. [Yes I don't know what I mean, but it's fun] Irwin

We "WESZA" are synomous with Asia since way before "BC" [not British Columbia] my tribal Family had a community in the thousands living in "Peking" ever since they originated the "Spice Routes" thru out Asia and India. The "Navigators" who began traveling by the "Reading Stars" and invented the "Sextent" were Jews from Asia Minor who formed Trading Posts in "Goa", the "Straits", "China" and "Japan". This is the same closed "Society of Navigators" who navigated the infamous "Black Ships" and developed the Spice Trading" controlled by the Portugese for many years. The "European Influence" only occured due to the Spanish Inquisition that when it began in Portugel caused the "Navigators" to emigrate to Holland that opened up the Dutch, French and English explorations. The major European Food Influence in Asia was due to the Portugese who brought Bread Baking to Japan [Pan] as well as "Tempura" [Fried in Oil] via Bakers who jumped Ship in Okinowa who opened Bakeries. In China and Japan the Steamed Sponge used for Cakes, Egg Tarts, Curry Puffs, Fried Bread and many Sweets can also be attributed to the Portugese Influence. Even the word "WESZA" is true simplification as it's one of the easiest words to spell for a one fingered typist. My most important influence to the Asian Community was done by importing Millions of Pounds of Chicken Feet and as many Duck Feet as available into Asia for over 20 + years from both the USA and Canada. I'm also guilty of Importing Whipped Cream Type Subsitutes, 3 different types of Poultry and live Chicks, those with Black Feet, Yellow Feet and White Feet for different markets.

Ben is 100% right, especially if your marinating as it almost always done in Asia by making sure that the meat absorbs all the marinate, you always weigh down the meats being marinated with most often a heavy stone with a solid wood board covering the surface. [under the stone]. Additionally even though your heating the Meats at a low temperature during drying the extended drying period involved should dry out and kill any egg cysts together with all bacteria. Regarding the reality that most fats eventually will become discolored or rancid over time, this is caused primarily by Oxidation as fats do not absorb the cure or marinate at the same speed as the meat solids. It seems that if Meats are cured throughly, dried longer until all the collagen is gone. [mostly dissolves the fats] then the tiny bit of remaining fat may not become rancid. But very few of us have enough patience to wait that long. Some European Cultures actually enjoy the taste of the Rancid Fats on Cured or Smoked Meat Products. It may smell or taste funny but it's still apparently safe to eat. Since the types of meat products, especially Beef used in Asia such as Water Buffalo or Grass Feed Beef locally raised are the types preferred for Jerky it amazing how little fat remains on the Carcass and almost all the sections that have any fat are sold quickly to retail stall customers, in fact yellow fat Beef sells for a higher price per catty [20 ounces]. That leaves only the leaner, often tougher cuts for making "Yuk Gon". This proves my impressions about many Tastes we acquire or enjoy by memory. Almost everything that I learned to appreciate in Asia that titillated my taste buds seems to always have evolved by the ability to make something taste delicious while using the least expensive or cheapest way to prepare the item. Some of these are: Anything "Stinky", especially Bean Curd, all the Items sold by Street Hawkers from a Large heated Cart, such as Spicy Fish Balls and Intestines, Street Congees such as late night Pork Backbones, Charred Salted Cuttlefish. It's also applicable to many Noodle or other dishes almost everything returns to the basic of making it taste good at the lowest costs. NOBODY HAS EVER DONE IT BETTER. To me the most eating enjoyment when traveling often comes from the "Hawkers" is Singapore, Kula Lumpar, Bangkok or Hong Kong at the Night Markets or similar venues. Irwin :

Moosh, I didn't know you lived on Cylon Occupied Caprica. Isn't the sky supposed to be red? ← "Joie" [Moosh] After that response may I have your permission to give "Jason" a "Beloute" as a gift from the Phillipines when I next visit New Jersey ? I'm sure that it will help him to appreciate adjust the color of the NW Sky. It always brings a man back down to earth. Irwin

Traditionally "Pastrami" has always been prepared from the "Navel Cut" from the Beef Forequarter. It's becoming more common in the last few years made from the Whole Jobber Trimmed, "Beef Brisket" or even from the so called Flat Brisket where the Fat cap has been removed. "Corned Beef", was done originally thru Canada utilizing the still popular British Beef cut called the "Silver Tip" also from the Forequarter and still sold in England, Ireland and France as Salt Beef or Corned Beef. The difference between "Salted Beef" or "Corned Beef" is sometimes the type of cure used. In Corning Kosher/Deli Cuts it customary to season with Pickling Spices and Garlic to enhance the flavor. All the products being used for Corned Beef, Smoked Beef, or Pastrami are always Cured before being cooked or processed. The Corned Beef is Cooked by Simmering in Hot Water, while the Pastrami is allowed to Hang long enough to shed the excess Curing Liquid, then Coated or Rubbed with a Dry Cure before being Smoked at very low temperature long enough to break down most of the collagen until it reaches a Internal Temperature of anywhere from 190/215 Degrees Fahrenheit. Removed from the Smoker, allowed to Cool then packaged or served. It tastes better if allowed to Steam before being sliced and served. eGullet has the most informative thread about making Pastrami under "Chef Fowke". "Brian Fowke", actually holds your hand and carefully walks you thru the process of Butchering, Curing, Smoking and finally making you start to wish you could taste his final result and it's only available on eGullet. It's the ultimate Pastrami adventure. Hope that someone more capable then myself will list the link. [if I remember correctly he even mentions Montreal] I'm originally a New Yorker who believes that Montreal's Bagels are now with the demise of so many Old Fashioned NYC Bagel Bakers the very best anywhere. I actually compared at Kaplan's Deli in Vancouver several weeks ago "Montreal Smoked Beef, Pastrami and Corned Beef" on the same Sandwich and loved them all but it was still to much to finish at one meal. Irwin

In many places that prepare "Yuk Gon" it would be cured then allowed to dry in a Oven [Older Model] with a Pilot Light always burning. If we wished to finish the Beef or Pork in the "Singapore Style" that any customers preferred we would Brush it after it had set under the low heat with a mixture of Maltose, Liquified Cane Sugar, Strained Apricot Jam and some Chilli's and raise the Heat for a short time to let it set again then lower the temperature to Warm or 110 Degrees Farenheit to finish. This would produce Strips that looked similar to those in the Photo, "Teepee" posted previously. The Drier more Stringy type was the standard in Hong Kong but the Singapore Jerky was always more expensive. Irwin

We expect to be staying several days in "Osoyoo" next week. Since no one has mentioned anyplace to eat there, I would welcome some suggestions for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. Also anyplace open late ? I am probably only dreaming, but are there any stands, farms or markets where we can buy fresh "Huckleberries". Thanks, Irwin