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Ah Leung: I realize that your only up to "18" Recipes with Photos but I envision the future. I see "eGullet" readers ordering items like "Cashew Chicken" Or "HK Style Chicken Fried Noodles" or any other items you've prepared. Next step I anticipate them comparing the dish delivered with your Photo Postings and after comparing the item: "NOT BEING HAPPY ABOUT WHAT THEY RECEIVED" I also imaging your "Photograph" being displayed any almost every Restaurant with some sort of bounty being offered about any information provided. This could become a problem since there are only a few places that actually make comparable dishes. Eventually they may have to bring their dishes up the your standards or they will start to serve, "HRZT8W" certified dishes for a additional charge. [paying a royalty to Ah Leung & eGullet] With my pre-cognition I not only caused the problem but also resolved it amicably. Now you can understand about "Trouble Shooting". Irwin

There is documentary evidence that the Chinese had established very profitable trade with the immense region that includes Indonesia, the Moluccas, East India, etc. as far back as the late 14th century (1380s). By the early 1400s huge fleets of Chinese vessels would call regularly on the region's ports. You can imagine all the cultural and trade intercourse that resulted. Which means that the Chinese were at least 100 years ahead of the Portuguese and Dutch in "discovering" the spices of SE Asia. As a child I remember some pepper plants that some of my Aunties planted. The chili and green peppers, etc. are NOT a pepper (piperis) as they are capsicum. Pepper originated int the east, capsicums came from the new world. ← I thought that I separated in my posting the nuances of the "Asian Peppers" from the "Chili Peppers". The east/west Spice Routes were in existence long before the 14th Century. In fact historically they was a substantial Western Community existing [tolerated] in Peking well over a 1200 years ago. My insinuation regarding that "Pepper Varietals" existed in China was taking into consideration some of the types such as "Szechuan, Red's, Green's or Pink's" that may have been available longer then we are aware since some are still unique to China. The Spice Trading always went both ways as it was easy to carry across the continents and had value to customers in both directions. It became much easier to load a Boat then a caravan of Camels, Horses or Donkeys plus Cargo could be exchanged anywhere in route. There were very few Vessels that had the large capacity of the Chinese Junks to move Cargo via the ports of Asia but they were mostly concerned with servicing their own requirements while at the same time intriguing the Foreign Traders about the potential availability of new interesting Spices from the Islands and Straits. The attitude of the Imperial Chinese was that they were superior to all their neighbors and that included everyone anywhere they came in contact with during that period. In many way's they were correct in their assumptions until comparatively modern times. Irwin

I am familiar with "Airag" a Mongolian dairy treat made from "Fermented Mares Milk" it is customarily served together with Cheese made from Sheep, Goats or Cows Milk covered with cream. A sweetened Yogurt beverage is also offered regularly. The only time I tried this I wasn't able to discern the actual tastes of the Cheeses, did find the Yogurt tasty but only had a polite superficial taste of the Fermented Mares Milk, even though my friend had several servings and felt it next morning. There were several variations of Boiled Lamb Casseroles that were rather bland cooked a long time and oily. It was served with a porridge that may have been from maize but was interesting. I was glad that we had brought "Dumplings" from a vendor on impulse as everyone enjoyed them especially me together with the popular Soy Beverage and the Wine we brought. This was during a stopover in Harbin, China where I had a acquaintance who wanted to visit his family at a Mongolian community. I was told that Dairy products were regularly served traditionally in Mongolia as it was a important factor in herders diets. Irwin

As the article about "Pepper" originated in Indonesia it wasn't entirely accurate in it's context. The effect on the Spice trade is historically attributed to it's major cause. The Spanish inquisition had begun to infiltrate Portugal. Its immediate effect was that the "Navigators" emigrated to Holland and started to provide their services to the Dutch. When they left Spain initially followed by Portugal it started the growth of Holland, England and France into major players in the world economy and colonization. Navigators had a unusual position on any vessel they served being considered "Neutral" they were generally released if the ship was commandeered or lost at sea during this period. They were all Jewish and use of the Sextant originating from the Spice Routes going from Europe to Asia was also thru their expertise. The "Black Ship's" were the most famous Ships that prospered by trading exclusively with Japan and China for many years. The Pepper overlooked that is considered the worlds most pungent and flavorful come from the island of Ponape in Micronesia where the climate is perfect for growing organic pepper but the crop is limited because of the size of the island Even more interesting is that the "Chili Peppers" were only exported for many years dried and ground up into a powder as it was felt that it was best to not allow the seeds to be sold since it could grow so well everywhere in the world. Once the seeds became available it proliferated into the diets everywhere in Africa, Asia and India to the extent that most countries identify it as their own most important spice. Some of the "Chinese varieties" may be older then more of the more well known Peppers. I don't doubt this after the discovery of the 4000 year old Noodles. Irwin [HOT]

Ah Leung: Thank you for timing your latest recipe so perfectly. My son-in-law is a Cashew Nut Lover who dropped in at about the same time your posting appeared for lunch. He already had stopped at "Trader Joe's" and had a package of "Unsalted Cashew Nuts" and after looking at your photos asked if he could attempt to prepare the recipe. This was a "All time first" as he almost never cooks anything, but couldn't resist the Cashews. I started the rice while he went out to buy the Chicken Breasts. Everything else was available except for "Sweet Flour Sauce" but I have "Hoisin". We also added a small Chili sliced as he enjoys spicy hot tastes. It was fun to watch him follow your instructions. He wouldn't even use a "Wok" because the pictures showed a fry pan. His only change except for the Chili I recommended was asking for permission to use all his Cashew Nuts as he really loves them. It came out delicious and he proudly asked if he could bring home the rest to show off to his family tonight. How's this for fast response to your recipe posting. He signing up for eGullet and intends to check out all your recipe postings since I told him your inclined to use leaner cuts in your recipes and everything is pictured including the ingredients. Irwin

I certainly did mean that. Steve Cuozzo has a full article in today's post, mentioning other factors that go into the taste of the steak. Read the article, and you'll find even Luger is coy as to both its aging and cooking methods. Then there are the issues of cooking temperature, charred vs uncharred, sliced vs served whole, on vs off-the bone, and so forth—all of which are endlessly debated. Obviously, all things being equal, I would prefer USDA prime dry-aged steaks. But all things aren't equal. One thing that I "DO" know is that not anyone who is involved with all the imitators has any knowledge of what the principals of "Peter Luger's" actually do about their purchasing , aging or acquiring their Beef as it has always been a hands on need to know family expertise that puts everything together. The front of the house employees and even the back of the house, Chef's or anyone else are aware of what their job requires and generally do it well. That only gives them some knowledge by association not the ability to copy effectively over the long run. It's truly a hands on learning and doing experience requiring more money, time and effort then any of the newbies on the block have acquired. Wolfgang's is a good example as it's founder has been implementable to "Peter Luger's" front of the house [floor dining room captain] with many years capable experience before starting Wolfgang's. Back of the house or actual Butchering experience "nil'. In reality there are only a handful of professionals experienced in every aspect of managing or putting together a sustainable operation remaining in the business today comparable to a "Peter Luger". What's even more interesting taking the technological advances into consideration available in 2005 with ability to put it together effectively it wouldn't be that difficult to operate a even better, more consistent Restaurant with more variety and more universally acceptable product to a larger customer base. Irwin

The "PROPER" aging of beef is much more complicated then it seems. There is even a vast disparity between the finesse required for "Dry Aging" as well as incorrectly termed "Wet Aging". In fact the great majority of utilization of either methodology is rarely done correctly even at the majority of operations who advertise terms such as 14/21/28 days aged. Unless this is done the right way it often meaningless as it takes more then letting it hang from a meat hook or on a shelf or remaining in a carton until rotated and cut into portions for serving. It may often taste better then very freshly killed beef, but it's more of how it was slaughtered and dressed. Then even more important the sorting after grading before being broken, averaged and packed for delivery. To attempt to provide details explaining the science and chemistry required to make sure that every steak served meets managements expectations would require more then a simple explanation. There is no comparison between a Whole Shortloin or Rib Section being aged to a "Noble" finish then dressed, trimmed and butchered to specification. The Roasts and Steaks will have a rich, beefy flavor, character and finish that may only be offered rarely. The premise "Of No Wine Before It's Time" also applies to "No Steak Before It's Time" except that it's much harder to correctly age Steaks. Your raw materials are much more expensive, perishable and have to be stored under refrigeration at a consistently high labor cost. Average the actual cost of a New York Strip Loin Steak compared to your average bottle of wine. Food costs on Steaks are often higher then Liquor cost on Wine based on selling prices while the majority of Restaurants don't often take into consideration the intangible costs involved. It requires a Restaurant Operator to invest considerable capitol in his inventory. If the Steakhouse serves 250 meals daily it may require keeping, rotating and paying in advance for a inventory of about 25,000 pounds of high quality Beef or more as availability means buy the best "When you can get it". It also requires competent Meatcutters who will rotate, judge, receive and keep track of your investment as well as paperwork, bookkeeping and costing out your production while tracking you suppliers, watching your refrigeration and making sure that all trimmings are accounted for while being utilized. I could continue to reiterate much more regarding what actually transpires in providing something so special but it becomes more technical. I hope I haven't given more information then was expected. That's why the great majority of establishments sell the "Sizzle", the "Heat" the whatever but it's mostly merchandising trying to sell you the experience and gambling that with ambivalence, cocktails, wine and after dinner drinks you'll agree. Thats why putting more money into advertising, public relations and promotions then product satisfies the customer. Irwin

Ah Leung: Stop paying attention to all the want-to-be's the right was to cook and display the dishes is what instinctively feel right, working with what you have on hand. [most are just kidding] Professionally speaking when ever we have a Chef in our kitchens who is more concerned with plating or appearance we relegate them to the "Garde Mange" until the learn that with any cooked hot dish it's more important to deliver it to the customer hot and delicious as fast as possible and not play around making it attractive. Always garni can be previously set up for plating, but in delivery "Less is More". There is to much time wasted playing around with appearances at many establishments that it always effects the finished item. I don't know if many eGulleters are aware that the greatest expense involved with putting together Cookbooks is the investment required in decorating and setting up the Photo's of the dishes being served for the publishers. Even a Food ad in any periodical may require all types of gimmicking and set ups to complete the presentation. Keep doing it your way, it different, special, plus it's amazing how well you manage to get it done so "DELICIOUSLY". I admire your candid, unpretentious presentations more then any other attempts I have observed. Just figure it out in $$$$$$ stack the fish, replace to tails. oh the skins to brown, needs more light, whatever it could take a whole box of fish to get it perfect, working with a crew. Everything needs to be choreographed, timed and most import look good. Whatever you all know what I mean. Sorry that I was so verbrose, but the magical things "Ah Leung" is doing for everyone should continue exactly as it's being done. And "YES" I think it's better then anything done on the Food Network or on Public Television. We have two very special eGulleters putting together more and better honest reports then anywhere else, in the Cyber world or the Real world. Thank you, "Ah Leung" and the most artistic food presenter anywhere "Teepee". Irwin

I use a large whisk to "blend" the congee when it is ready to serve if I want it creamier. You can also make it creamier by "thickening" with rice flour. One of my sons likes pork silk in his congee...He also likes to eat the pork out-of-hand. ← That what every kid does, and so called adults like me. I actually try every brand that becomes available at the grocers. The stuffs addictive, reasonably priced and takes the edge off your hunger. It's also a nice enhancer with Ramen. Irwin

jo-mei: In Hong Kong the rice thats browned on the bottom of the "Clay Pot Casseroles" would never get any further then being coveted by everyone waiting to get a chance to scoop some up. It's offered to the guest of honor or eldest at the table first and the rest is up for grabs. It a treat that escapes politeness. In the States it's a contrived item since Clay Pots are mostly served in genuine Chinese Restaurants where they are baked to order with a rice base. The majority of places prepare the dishes with rice served seperately. In the States Hot platters evolved in NYC where they are still used for "Roast Pork" and "Spare Ribs" in many Restaurants. It has been served this way since the 1930's. Sizziling Rice is mostly yesterdays rice compressed into shape, then deep fried to achive the effect. It's good merchandising that tastes pretty good but I never saw it done in Asia. Irwin

The "SIZZLE" from the platters into the Steak originated apparently as 2 so called European Style Restaurants in Asia. Ironically they both has the same names even though I don't think they were related to each other during the 1950's. The first place was the very well known 'Jimmy's Kitchen" originally located in the Central District in Hong Kong still operated by the Landau Family at 2 different locations in Causeway Bay and Kowloon. The other Restaurant was in "Kula Lumpar" also called "Jimmy's Kitchen". Both places started using the Steel Oval Platters to serve Steaks hot as if they came sizzling right off the fire. It was effective merchandising, even though the original rationale was to serve Steaks from Kitchens that needed some way to keep up with the volume of orders by delivering a Steak still hot to the customers. It eventually traveled all over the world, where it's still being featured in various guises effectively. From "Fajitas" to "Sizzling Rice" all the way to some of the most expensive "Steak House" Steaks. [Ruth Chris?] Irwin

I was discussing "Congee" with my friends grandmother who is visiting from "Hong Kong" where they own several Congee/Noodle Restaurants for over 50 years. She bawled me out for not mentioning about their added secret ingredient to which she attributes their customer loyalty. They ad the "Dry Scallops" but also ad some "Dry Duck Gizzards". I did forget to mention them, but I use the Duck Gizzards to enhance any dry vegetables or even fresh vegetables being used in a Broth or Clear Soup. They are generally under utilized as it's relatively recently available at better Asian markets. They are versatile even when complimenting Chicken, Beef or Pork dishes. I find that most Rice is adaptable to Congee [except Uncle Ben's] it mostly a matter of adjusting the cooking time, fluid balance. I have had several occassions when I lacked patience and dumped the gloop into a food processor just long enough to break apart the already cooked rice then let it simmer long enough to forgive my impulse. It still tastes the same, and my grand daughters even though pre-teens and teens still prefer their "Congee" plain with side dishes to pick from. The type of Rice that works the best every time is the popular "Hinode" or short grain Rices popular in Hawaii with some added Talcum. [don't ask me why?] Be prepared when you see the prices charged for Dry Scallops or Dry Duck Gizzard. Just keep in mind a little goes a long way. Irwin

Dear Proud-2-B-Salty-Wet-Man* (otherwise venerably titled DOM) This would be a challenge to our in-house language expert Ah Leung. However, mature women are unfortunately passed off with vegetable-associated names, albeit similarly well-seasoned. Sign. Not Going to be a Pickle. * Ham = Salty Sap = Wet ← The more I learn, the more confused I become ! {Cantonese Scholar} Salty + Wet = Live [DOM] = okay agreed Not Going to be a Pickle = Huh ? If your not a pickle then what veggie are you ? Anyway "Dejah" has ruled ! Only microbes are allowed.

I am familiar about the "Secret Ingredient" used at almost all Hong Kong's pre-eminent "Congee Restaurant's" and have decided to share it with eGullet. It somehow makes a simple rice gruel into something special. This is attributed to the fact that almost all these places are always packed with customers. It's "Dried Scallops" about 8 ounces is all it takes in a Commercial Congee Pot [ 20 Gallons] so use it modestly and enjoy. I hope this postings influence others to enjoy this healthy dish regularly. Since the Rice quality in Hong Kong varies most places have a ladder adjacent to the Congee Pots where a "Hot Water Boy" climbs regularly and stirs with a very long paddle adding water as needed to keep the rice consistency stable. It's customarily served with various condiments and small side dishes. The only items prepared to accompany Congee are thin sliced pork livers and kidneys or seasonal Vegetables with Oyster Sauce. Most places also serve Sui Kow, Won Tons or Noodles served in combinations together with clear Broth. Other types of Congee are served in different ethnic Chinese Restaurants. Irwin

Nu, so you don't vant that the Danishes should go to waste?? Think of your zayde in Minsk--he never even TASTED a Danish! ← Warsaw and the Ukraine actually on that side, but yeah. ← "WOW" are we lonsmen? [spelling?] Warsaw [Mother] and Kiev [Father]. Bagels and Danish without a zayde I already commented. You east coasters always fress better then us from the Northwest. Irwin

Fresser: Being Jewish from NYC with strong appreciation of Bagels, Appetizer and Danish I must explain the more mature experienced fresser's approach to this type of snack. Most important is : Where the "Bagel's came from ?" as there are "Authentic Bagel's", or whatever Bagel's. Again this certainly applies to the "Danish Pastry" where it was baked, how is it finished. If it calls to you by being special, of course you "GRAB" it first, since you don't want anyone who doesn't know the difference to get his hands on your Danish. If both the Danish and Bagel's were acceptable then the decision must be based on the quality of the appetizing. This requires one to some how manage to contrive to get enough of everything while not appearing greedy. [this is difficult since such treats are rare] All things being equal I bet that the "Peach Danish" [one I have never seen in NYC] was likely the only one and whoever managed to get it was definitely Jewish. If the Danish was "Blah" he was a "Goy". Any leftovers please send them to Seattle where we covet appetizer. Irwin

Irwin: Thanks so much for the compliment. Most of the saled pork I had, if memory serves me well, were in cubes. But I didn't have this congee too often when I was young. My favorite was ground beef (mixed with shredded deep-fried mung bean threads) and pork blood occassionally, and "shampan" too. ← Ah Leung [hzrt8w]: After posting my response last night I needed to visit the International District to order "Salt Pork with Thousand Year Egg Congee" before everything closed. It was served at "Hing Loong Restaurant" with the Pork Cut as I discribed in long strips from the Pork Butt but the Eggs used seemed larger [Duck eggs ?] . I took several orders home with Fried Bread to eat last night as a necessary treat and again today for breakfast. Yours photos still look more appetizing then mine in the foam container. Irwin

Irwin [salty Old Man or Ham Sap Low] the salutation i received when buying this Fish from the Shop Employees. ← Mui hern just describes the softer texture...altho' I don't think the characters translate as such...I just buy what Mom's tells me to... A little goes a long ways does not apply to my family! One fish will do 2 meals...and they fight for the bones! Wesza: Is it because you buy "so many salty fish" that you were given that title? ← Dejah: Do you mean the title of "Mui hern" or "Ham Sap Low" ? Being kept away in the Canadian Prairie for the protection of everyone else I am concerned about your language skills. Thankfully "Teepee" has come to our rescue. A more eloquent description of the interpretation of "Ham Sap Low" can be insinuated by "Ben Hong's" posting today on the thread "Odd find in Old Asia Market" it shows you how the venerable thoughts of pure masculinity begin to change after one attains the age of 63 years +, as you can see us older men are beyond salt fish, or most definitely rotten things. It's based upon our delight in enjoying sweet tender young morsels. [not speaking Cantonese that's what I was told] Inquiring minds want to know if there is a similar title applied to mature woman who are as vernarable as such special mature men ?

One of the most popular Cold Meat appetizers served in Shanghai/Peking Restaurants is made from Mutton, shaped into rectangular jellied pieces and thinly sliced to order garnished with diced spring onions. Since it's often sold by pointing to the displayed piece by customers many aren't aware that it's Mutton but it's delicious. Irwin

hzrt8w: That is the most eloquent Salted Pork Congee I have ever seen. Your using Pork Loin in place of the fatty shoulder regularly used is going to be the way I will make it in the future as in 2005 less fat is healthier and loin has enough flavor and tenderness that it will be delicious. The only thing we do differently is slicing the salted pork in Julienne Strips as it customarily done at most Restaurants. I think I would prefer this Congee much more then the "Pig Snout Congee", late night streetside [cheap] treat popular in Hong Kong [wifes favorite] that I just finished posting on another thread. If I needed a food display designer for advertisements there is no question that I would seek to utilize your skills as your food photos almost taste good enough to make me covet the dishes right now, better then studio quality. Comparable to any magazines, we are very fortunate to enjoy your food art at eGullet. Both you and Teepee are truly gifted. Irwin

It's ironical that incidentally a "Birthday Surprise" occurred at just the right time to provide a enthusiastic response from our celebrant. In Yiddish there is a word that contonates this feeling "Mitzvah" [Good Deed] that he has been sharing together with a happy enjoyment that makes me and everyone else feel good to have settled a question that now been finally brought to rest. Yes Ben it was indeed "Dejah's" mythical magic that cast the spell to provide you with proof about where the "Noodle" originated. After your post on the "Mooncake thread" I have been watching and waiting for something to prove that you were correct in your assumption. Now you all know that if you get a Party that started by a certain person there will be a unexpected ending that gives you some unusual enjoyment. Irwin Now that was a "PARTY" even better then blowing out the candles. Thank you eGullet.

If I'm not mistaken that may a small version of the type of Fish that in Hong Kongs shops specializing in Salt Fish is displayed standing up on it's head in Salt. The majority are relatively small [a little goes a long way] but they also display larger fish about 1 1/2 caddys in weight to select from at a premium price for special occassions. They now retail at HK $100.00 to 125.00 per caddy. [20 ounces] Irwin [salty Old Man or Ham Sap Low] the salutation i received when buying this Fish from the Shop Employees.

I would like to bring to this topic something that may have been overlooked regarding the evolution of Chinese Cuisine during the past 50 or so years. After the 2nd World War Hong Kong was a relatively small city without a significant population. It wasn't until the immigration began from the Chinese mainland that the effects of the population growing at one of the fastest rates anywhere began to take effect. There were immigrant populations arriving daily from almost everywhere in China, including the villages immediately bordering Hong Kong. In less then 10 years the growth of population went from hundreds of thousands to over four million. It was amazing how well the British Government dealt with this situation. When I began doing business in Hong Kong the population was about one million after moving there until I relocated it had grown to well over four million. As happens in new areas many immigrants began opening Restaurants/Hawker Stands or residential eating clubs. Because there was no place for ghetto's to evolve the population of immigrants lived all over the colony. What was very unusual to those new comer's was the available ingredients since they came from China where everything was generally in short supply. In many areas Rice, Oil and almost everything was rationed. Since these new eating places needed to attract all ethnic Chinese customers due to the mixed populations they learned to do what every business man acquires. They managed to adapt the cuisine to become acceptable to their customers tastes. As more people became affluent they being Chinese enjoyed trying new dishes and eventually there were lots of Shanghai, Hakka. Chiu Chow, Peking, Vegan and other regional Restaurants, but the Cantonese were still the most popular. The only other type of Restaurants that meet most customers criteria were those opened by immigrant seamen from Singapore and Malaysia that featured combinations of Chinese, Hainan, Malay and European Style Dishes. It wasn't long until there were regional Chinese Restaurants opening that were more authentic. This growth was timed by the Fast Food, Chain Restaurants and representative Restaurants from all over the World. It's still growing with no end in sight. There are authentic Asian Restaurants in most large cities in North America especially Vancouver, Toronto, Winnipeg and Montreal in Canada. Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Boston, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Chicago and your City next. I hope my attempt to explain this evolution isn't to ambitious but I felt it should be added to this thread. Everyones comments and thoughts are welcomed. Irwin

Just verified about the type of citrus similar to "Etrog" it known as "Finger Citrus" or "Buddhas Hand or Fingers" (citrus medica var. sarcodactylus] considerably more pleasingly aromatic then Etrog. It is permitted to be substituted for Etrog if unblemished for Jewish Ceremonies. It's known as "Fu Show" in Chinese, "Bushukon" in Japanese or "Limau Jael" in Malaysian. The aroma of the citrus is even more pleasing then the Bergemot Orange that's popular for scents. We generally kept then for over a month to enjoy the aroma after Chinese New Year it was especially enjoyable watching how little girls would pretend they were grown up by saying that it was their perfume present for New Years. Irwin

For convenience I often if I'm in the north of Seattle stop at the Ranch 99 Market in Edmond's where I pick up a 1/2 Roast Duck, 1/2 Red cooked Chicken, Char Sui and cut of Whole Roasted Pig then stop at the steam table to get noodles, rice plus different veggie combos and enjoy a varied mindless meal at a reasonable price. Last time had a whole Pomfrit Fried at the Seafood section for less then $5.00. There are also many places in the International District where they have a larger variety and even better Roasters. Some places even offer several types of Chicken and other delicacies. I like the taste of Poultry at the Chinese places since it is rarely overcooked and they are very fussy about the quality. They buy most local fresh. Irwin