Salt and pepper at the restaurant table

[JAZ]

It used to be that at virtually any American restaurant, you'd find a set of salt and pepper shakers on every table. Also, at least at a certain class of restaurant, waiters seemed to appear with pepper grinder in hand for fresh ground pepper (which was almost always in addition to the shaker).

Now, it seems to me that fewer restaurants, especially the high end ones, provide salt and pepper at the table. I can see a couple of very different reasons for this: I'm sure that anything remotely attractive walks out the door with more than one customer; and (I suspect) there's a feeling among chefs that their food is perfectly seasoned and adding salt or pepper to it is sacrilege. In addition, there's probably a feeling that salt and pepper (particularly pre-ground pepper) at the table are somehow passe or perhaps even lower class.

And yet, if there's one thing that can make or break virtually any savory dish, salt is that thing. Much as chefs might not like it, their taste for salt might not be universal, so why not give diners the option of seasoning to their taste? In most cases, pepper is probably not such a big deal, but why make the customer ask for salt or suffer under-salted food?

[Gifted Gourmet]

perhaps a bit more light on what restauranteurs face ...

Consider the would-be thief at Tavern on the Green in New York's Central Park who attempted to steal an original 19th century painting titled "Satisfaction" --also the cover art on the restaurant's dessert menu -- which was bolted to a brick wall. Allan Kurtz, general manager of the special-occasion restaurant, said the thief had loosened some of the bolts holding the painting before fleeing when a hostess chanced upon the short-circuited larceny. The painting now is double-bolted.

Danny Meyer, owner of popular Gramercy Tavern in New York, was not so Lucky. A patron disconnected and stole a designer wall sconce from a rest room a few years ago.

and then there is the rest of the story ...

[Fat Guy]

Quite a few restaurants that do put salt and pepper grinders/shakers on the table clear them when they clear the table for dessert. This cuts down on theft opportunities, though not completely. Theft loss is a cost of doing business at any restaurant, though, just as hotels know they're going to lose some towels, etc., every day. You just have to factor it in to your menu pricing.

There are also some good solutions that don't require expensive tabletop items. For example, small salt and pepper dishes are easy enough to put on the table. Eleven Madison Park in New York has a nice implementation of this system: when they bring the bread and butter, they fill a small dish with salt and pepper from larger containers and put it on the table. That way you don't have to sit there imagining that the previous occupants of the table had their grubby paws in the salt dish.

For me, the most annoying thing about not having salt on the table is that most restaurants seem to be using unsalted butter for the bread service. A few top places serve both salted and unsalted butter, but it's unusual. So once I ascertain that the butter isn't salted, I almost always sprinkle a little salt on my buttered bread. I rarely add salt to my other food (unless it's steak, but that's usually a different kind of restaurant and every steakhouse has salt on the table anyway), but would like it at least for the bread service. Then again, I don't mind asking, so long as they bring it promptly.

Also, on the other side of this issue, it really bugs me when people salt their food without tasting it first.

[godito]

I worry more about customers stealing my saltshakers (here's me wearing the "owner" hat) than customers adding salt to the food I've prepared (Chef hat, please)

I like EMP's method, as described by Fat Guy. I also like the idea of removing the shakers before dessert. Those methods work for me best.

Now, let me tell you, one of the hardest things to learn when cooking is how to season well. You have to find a happy average that will suit most customers. I don't mind when I see one of my customers adding salt to their meal, but I would if I saw a lot of them doing it. Then again, it's better to underseason than to over do it.

Also, on the other side of this issue, it really bugs me when people salt their food without tasting it first.

Amen!

[nikkib]

I worry more about customers stealing my saltshakers (here's me wearing the "owner" hat) than customers adding salt to the food I've prepared (Chef hat, please)

I like EMP's method, as described by Fat Guy. I also like the idea of removing the shakers before dessert. Those methods work for me best.

Now, let me tell you, one of the hardest things to learn when cooking is how to season well. You have to find a happy average that will suit most customers. I don't mind when I see one of my customers adding salt to their meal, but I would if I saw a lot of them doing it. Then again, it's better to underseason than to over do it.

Also, on the other side of this issue, it really bugs me when people salt their food without tasting it first.

Amen!

←

I'm not sur about " Liking the idea of removing the saltshakers before dessert" To still have them on the table when dessert is served is practically a sackable offence where i come from - you should never have more than is strictly necessary on the trable at any given point, its just slack otherwise.

[nikkib]

Quite a few restaurants that do put salt and pepper grinders/shakers on the table clear them when they clear the table for dessert. This cuts down on theft opportunities, though not completely. Theft loss is a cost of doing business at any restaurant, though, just as hotels know they're going to lose some towels, etc., every day. You just have to factor it in to your menu pricing.

There are also some good solutions that don't require expensive tabletop items. For example, small salt and pepper dishes are easy enough to put on the table. Eleven Madison Park in New York has a nice implementation of this system: when they bring the bread and butter, they fill a small dish with salt and pepper from larger containers and put it on the table. That way you don't have to sit there imagining that the previous occupants of the table had their grubby paws in the salt dish.

For me, the most annoying thing about not having salt on the table is that most restaurants seem to be using unsalted butter for the bread service. A few top places serve both salted and unsalted butter, but it's unusual. So once I ascertain that the butter isn't salted, I almost always sprinkle a little salt on my buttered bread. I rarely add salt to my other food (unless it's steak, but that's usually a different kind of restaurant and every steakhouse has salt on the table anyway), but would like it at least for the bread service. Then again, I don't mind asking, so long as they bring it promptly.

Also, on the other side of this issue, it really bugs me when people salt their food without tasting it first.

←

The reason for serving unsalted butter is the same as serving mineral water without lime/lemon as we do not want to taint your palate before your meal. commonsense surely?

[godito]

I worry more about customers stealing my saltshakers (here's me wearing the "owner" hat) than customers adding salt to the food I've prepared (Chef hat, please)

I like EMP's method, as described by Fat Guy. I also like the idea of removing the shakers before dessert. Those methods work for me best.

Now, let me tell you, one of the hardest things to learn when cooking is how to season well. You have to find a happy average that will suit most customers. I don't mind when I see one of my customers adding salt to their meal, but I would if I saw a lot of them doing it. Then again, it's better to underseason than to over do it.

Also, on the other side of this issue, it really bugs me when people salt their food without tasting it first.

Amen!

←

I'm not sur about " Liking the idea of removing the saltshakers before dessert" To still have them on the table when dessert is served is practically a sackable offence where i come from - you should never have more than is strictly necessary on the trable at any given point, its just slack otherwise.

←

Agreed. But we must also agree that most restaurants don't do it (not talking high end, necessarily). In fact, I think most restaurants have the shakers and the sugar containers out before you even sit down.

Me? I have my waiters remove them right befor the sweets come out. And as a customer it bugs me when they don't..., but that depends on how much they charge for food.

[srhcb]

I don't know if I'd want to eat in a restaurant that wouldn't trust me with salt and pepper shakers.

How many people have experienced this, and where?

SB

[godito]

I don't know if I'd want to eat in a restaurant that wouldn't trust me with salt and pepper shakers.

How many people have experienced this, and where?

SB 

←

Are we talking about customer theft?

My goodness, I've seen it all! Once the customers wlaked away with all the silverwear. Another favorite is napking rings. Oh, and also, once, the silver plaque with the number of the table that was bolted to the wall.

Saltshakers? Yup, a couple of times we've found they were missing.

Where was I working? All of them hign-endish restaurants.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Hoping that this link is still functional ...

NYT diners' blog article:

Thieves Like Us

By Frank Bruni

“Over the course of a year, restaurants around the country lose as much as 3 percent of their earnings to theft by customers who seem to be getting more brazen by the minute,” the article continued. “Demitasse spoons, Peugeot pepper mills, imported wineglasses, Frette linens, framed artwork, serving platters, Champagne buckets. The list of stolen goods boggles the imagination.”

It boggles this imagination, that’s for certain. I can’t fathom feeling entitled to swipe something from a restaurant, and even if I could, I’d be petrified of getting caught.

and there is considerably more input from NYT readers on this topic .. some hilarious .. some not ... but all worth reading!

[srhcb]

Hoping that this link is still functional ...

NYT diners' blog article:

Thieves Like Us

By Frank Bruni

I never heard of such a thing! Not on that scale anyway.

Seems to me a few "busts", with the attending embarrassment, would go a log way toward alleviating the problem?

SB (Maybe I just don't frequent ritzy enough restaurants?)

[TAPrice]

I'm not sur about " Liking the idea of removing the saltshakers before dessert" To still have them on the table when dessert is served is practically a sackable offence where i come from - you should never have more than is strictly necessary on the trable at any given point, its just slack otherwise.

←

I agree. Clearing the salt and pepper shakers before dessert is proper service, isn't it? It was always done when I ate out in France. I can't imagine that the tradition is just theft prevention.

In fact, Wikipedia claims that "dessert" means to clear the table:

Dessert is a course that typically comes at the end of a meal, usually consisting of sweet food but sometimes of a strongly-flavored one, such as some cheeses. The word comes from the Old French desservir, "to clear the table."

[Timh]

In a perfect world the seasoning of the food begins in the initial preparation stages, in the stocks, the blanching of the vegetables, the doughs, the cooking of the pastas, etc.... But many cooks and chefs slack in the vigilence of tasting EVERYTHING in the process. At the final stage of plate preparation, final seasoning is no more than an adjustment to the product. This same thought extends to the sweet side too. Though never has a guest asked for more suger for their dessert, or sent one back because its too sweet, i've had desserts that were either not sweet (or whatever the flavor) enough, or were too sweet.

[Mr. Delicious]

Also, on the other side of this issue, it really bugs me when people salt their food without tasting it first.

I couldn't agree more, and sadly the first person to do this all the time is my father. He owns a restaurant that sells a garlic seasoning, and carries a shaker with him at all times, even my marinated lamb racks, that have more than enough of garlic and enough salt, get "seasoned" before tasted. My sisters look at me when he does it as I cringe.

[nikkib]

Also, on the other side of this issue, it really bugs me when people salt their food without tasting it first.

I couldn't agree more, and sadly the first person to do this all the time is my father. He owns a restaurant that sells a garlic seasoning, and carries a shaker with him at all times, even my marinated lamb racks, that have more than enough of garlic and enough salt, get "seasoned" before tasted. My sisters look at me when he does it as I cringe.

←

i will never get that - essentially everything he eats must taste exactly the same due to the "portable" seasoning, its great he likes it so much but come on! A bit of variety never killed anyone ( well not that i know of anyway...)

Edited March 2, 2007 by nikkib (log)

[Joisey]

During my wild single restaurant days (god I miss them so) I hooked up with a girl who was a semi-regular at the place I worked. One day I was hanging out at her place and I noticed she had S&P shakers everywhere. Yup, she "collected" them from various places. There ARE people like that in the world.

PS..I couldn't find any from my place of employment so I couldn't justify ending a pretty good thing...;-)

[BrodeurR]

When a diner makes a seemingly simple request for the black and white stuff, a chef is left staring at a wall of seasoning scratching his head. Cathal Armstrong, 37, chef and owner of Old Town's Restaurant Eve, has 14 different salts and various peppers to season his menu. With table sizes ever decreasing, giving diners the myriad seasonings they need is just not feasible. And limiting their choices to one type would not be fair. "Kosher salt [is] a flavor enhancer," says Armstrong. "It draws the saliva into your palate and makes you taste food better. But some of the salts that we use, if they're used in the right application, have a very distinct flavor." There are many more varieties of salt than pepper: Among the world's offerings are white salts, gray salts, black salts; Japanese salts, Bolivian salts, French salts; shallow-water salts, deepwater salts, rock salts. Flavor isn't the only characteristic chefs taste for - texture is a factor as well. There are salts as fine as confectioner's sugar that will dissolve when their grains land on warm food and there are large, crystallized clumps of salt that will retain their crunch.

This topic reminded me of the above article that I read some time ago. Here's a link to the whole article if you're interested: http://restauranteve.com/cocktails/downloa...t_of_season.pdf

[chamekke]

Also, on the other side of this issue, it really bugs me when people salt their food without tasting it first.

I couldn't agree more, and sadly the first person to do this all the time is my father. He owns a restaurant that sells a garlic seasoning, and carries a shaker with him at all times, even my marinated lamb racks, that have more than enough of garlic and enough salt, get "seasoned" before tasted. My sisters look at me when he does it as I cringe.

←

Someone, I can't think who, described people who do this as "autocondimentors".

My husband does this all the time (he's otherwise very lovable!)

[Cats]

Someone, I can't think who, described people who do this as "autocondimentors".

←

Terry Pratchett describes the Archchancellor of Unseen University in Reaper Man as "a shameless autocondimentor*."

*"Someone who will put certainly salt and probably pepper on any meal you put in front of them whatever it is and regardless of how much it’s got on it already and regardless of how it tastes."

[Basildog]

We have "Salt and pepper squid" on the menu at the moment, yet still saw someone blindly putting salt and pepper on it before he took his first bite.What can you do?

[Alchemist]

I agree that people who put salt, pepper, ketchup, hot sauce on something before they taste it mess up the effect. Not always of course, Tapatio on your taco al pastor is one thing.

In the same vein I have stopped using wedges of lime on cocktails (like a Daq or gimlet) and gone to very thin lime wheels so the customer can’t squeeze it first thing into a drink. I am, of course happy to provide lime or simple if the drink is too sweet or dry for their palate.

[Alan Smeaton]

This thread reminds me about the three star michelin chef, Nico Ladenis, who ran Chez Nico in London during the 80's and 90's and was known to throw out customers who requested salt and pepper on the table. Ah, the days when the customer wsn't always right!!