Ducasse to open at the Dorchester

[Brian]

Decent sized glasses of Champagne were 16 euro for blanc / 17 for (Lanson) Rose at lunchtime in Monaco earlier this year. 25 euro for a glass of Banyuls was an unpleasant surprise though.

[ginger chef]

i think ours was billecart-salmon . didnt get much choice they just poured. sketch last week were doing a glass of 3 different krugs for £125

[ameiden]

sketch last week were doing a glass of 3 different krugs for £125

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I know it is almost a commodity in Michelin-star restaurants to approach the table with a Champagne trolley carrying anything from a modest house bubbly to a Dom Perignon. At a tasting last week, I heard Champagne authority Tom Stevenson say that it was stupid to drink Prestige Cuvees or even Vintage Champagnes as an aperitif. But then Michael Broadbent said you shouldn't drink Sauternes with your pudding.

[Gary Marshall]

it's a definite no go.

mark palmer in the telegraph has rated it 8/10.

[nikkib]

it's a definite no go.

mark palmer in the telegraph has rated it 8/10.

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[Andy Lynes]

Champagne authority Tom Stevenson say that it was stupid to drink Prestige Cuvees or even Vintage Champagnes as an aperitif.

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Not that I'm likely to do so very often, but did he say why? I'm struggling to think of an occasion when I've been fortunate to have a glass or two of the top notch stuff and not enjoyed it.

[Andy Lynes]

RASPBERRIES!!!!!!  Is no one bothered?

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Jan Moir is (click) but Ducasse apparently, not so much.

[muichoi]

sketch last week were doing a glass of 3 different krugs for £125

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I know it is almost a commodity in Michelin-star restaurants to approach the table with a Champagne trolley carrying anything from a modest house bubbly to a Dom Perignon. At a tasting last week, I heard Champagne authority Tom Stevenson say that it was stupid to drink Prestige Cuvees or even Vintage Champagnes as an aperitif. But then Michael Broadbent said you shouldn't drink Sauternes with your pudding.

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Michael Broadbent is of course right. It's a terrible waste of sauternes and not what it was designed for.

[Infrasonic]

Before this gets too litigious, I would be keen to triple-check my bill. I have been wrong before...

That said, VAT or not, the number was too big for the quality of the food!

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I'll guess that the amount of VAT is on the bill, but that it isn't "added on" to the menu price.

Happened to me a while ago and left me bewildered...

If people are claiming on business expenses (or are from outside the EU) it makes sense to display the VAT separately.

[nikkib]

Champagne authority Tom Stevenson say that it was stupid to drink Prestige Cuvees or even Vintage Champagnes as an aperitif.

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Not that I'm likely to do so very often, but did he say why? I'm struggling to think of an occasion when I've been fortunate to have a glass or two of the top notch stuff and not enjoyed it.

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I would imagine it would be something to do with the depth of flavour and not wanting to affect the tastebuds by overpowering them with the aperitif, i know chefs somettimes like to think of these as palate cleansers..

[muichoi]

No, it's because the best wines-which these can sometimes be-should always be appreciated over time with food.

[naebody]

No, it's because the best wines-which these can sometimes be-should always be appreciated over time with food.

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Well that's just bollocks.

Anyway, back to the subject. Places that do the £25 glass of champagne trick are invariably tourist traps, keener to exploit cultural embarrasment than to attract repeat trade. For all his "three stars in my heart" bullshit, I'm afraid this operation looks as cynical as a Soho clip joint.

[Bapi]

Oh, the irony. My Missus- who is similarly food obsessed- was at a Black Tie do at the Dorchester do this week. She said that the food they had their banquet was the best she had ever had at such an event. Perhaps the corporate hospitality chaps could teach Mr Ducasse's minions a thing or too .....

[muichoi]

No, it's because the best wines-which these can sometimes be-should always be appreciated over time with food.

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Well that's just bollocks.

Anyway, back to the subject. Places that do the £25 glass of champagne trick are invariably tourist traps, keener to exploit cultural embarrasment than to attract repeat trade. For all his "three stars in my heart" bullshit, I'm afraid this operation looks as cynical as a Soho clip joint.

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Not so. Mr.Stevenson knows what he's talking about.

[Zoticus]

No, it's because the best wines-which these can sometimes be-should always be appreciated over time with food.

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Well that's just bollocks.

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Not so. Mr.Stevenson knows what he's talking about.

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Mr. Stevenson maybe correct because what he says is true, but he is not correct because it is him who says it's true.

[Corinna Dunne]

RASPBERRIES!!!!!!  Is no one bothered?

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Jan Moir is (click) but Ducasse apparently, not so much.

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Ah yes, we should have guessed… the importance of being red.

For example, Ducasse sees no problem with international cultural homogenisation and, in spite of current fashionable paeons to seasonality, he has raspberries on his London menu. In November.

“Today,” he says, “there is not much difference in terms of palate and what people like. People travel so much now; they have so many different experiences. People in London travel to Tokyo, to New York, to everywhere. Also, they are very unfaithful. They zapper a lot. They are not faithful to one or two restaurants. With the raspberries, well, you get fruit flown in from anywhere now. We thought about this a lot. But we decided we had to have a dessert with red fruit on the menu.”

Does this not conflict with your desire to serve seasonal food?

“Non.” Then a little shrug.

The start of this interview is hilarious, with Ducasse going through Jan Moir’s review line by line. He has some interesting taste in food too:

Yet he is less of a food snob than you might imagine. The other day he very much enjoyed fish and chips at the upstairs bar of Tom’s Kitchen in Chelsea, the casual restaurant run by the young Michelin-starred chef Tom Aikens. Elsewhere, he has more surprising tastes. “I like McDonald’s chicken McNuggets with curry sauce,” he says, and I nearly fall off my cream leather chair and right into the crystal-stacked vasselier. “Yes, they can be nice, although, obviously, I don’t have them a lot."

[Gary Marshall]

No, it's because the best wines-which these can sometimes be-should always be appreciated over time with food.

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Well that's just bollocks.

Anyway, back to the subject. Places that do the £25 glass of champagne trick are invariably tourist traps, keener to exploit cultural embarrasment than to attract repeat trade. For all his "three stars in my heart" bullshit, I'm afraid this operation looks as cynical as a Soho clip joint.

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agreed

and agreed

perhaps it's the tight northerner in me but nothing makes me ask for the wine list quicker than over eager champagne trolley action.

[muichoi]

No, it's because the best wines-which these can sometimes be-should always be appreciated over time with food.

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Well that's just bollocks.

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Not so. Mr.Stevenson knows what he's talking about.

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Mr. Stevenson maybe correct because what he says is true, but he is not correct because it is him who says it's true.

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Agreed.What he says is true.

Edited November 25, 2007 by muichoi (log)

[Andy Lynes]

He has some interesting taste in food too:

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Ducasse is not alone in his fast food prediliction of course. We recently had Ramsay's Burger King revelations, and I recall Nico Ladenis saying that he used to take his daughters to KFC now and again.

[cheeekymunkey]

I realise this conversation has moved on a bit but, in the interests of clarity, I re-checked my bill and VAT wasn't added. It really was that bloody expensive.

Anyway, it still makes me a bit of an arse. Apologies.

[chrisp]

I realise this conversation has moved on a bit but, in the interests of clarity, I re-checked my bill and VAT wasn't added. It really was that bloody expensive.

Anyway, it still makes me a bit of an arse. Apologies.

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Sorry, do you mean that the prices were quoted without VAT on the menu? That makes you right to point it out, doesn't it, not an arse.

[cheeekymunkey]

I realise this conversation has moved on a bit but, in the interests of clarity, I re-checked my bill and VAT wasn't added. It really was that bloody expensive.

Anyway, it still makes me a bit of an arse. Apologies.

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Sorry, do you mean that the prices were quoted without VAT on the menu? That makes you right to point it out, doesn't it, not an arse.

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Your efforts to undo my self-inflicted arse status are noble and kind.

Alas, the prices on the menu included VAT. My bill had VAT separated out but, in the context of some disbelief at the final figure, I leapt wildly to the conclusion that VAT must have been added at this stage.

[chrisp]

I realise this conversation has moved on a bit but, in the interests of clarity, I re-checked my bill and VAT wasn't added. It really was that bloody expensive.

Anyway, it still makes me a bit of an arse. Apologies.

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Sorry, do you mean that the prices were quoted without VAT on the menu? That makes you right to point it out, doesn't it, not an arse.

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Your efforts to undo my self-inflicted arse status are noble and kind.

Alas, the prices on the menu included VAT. My bill had VAT separated out but, in the context of some disbelief at the final figure, I leapt wildly to the conclusion that VAT must have been added at this stage.

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Ah OK. Well it's still a rip-off anyway.

[Pizza Napoletana]

I have just cancelled my reservation and have booked Bacchus for this coming Friday.

It is a shame Ducasse has started with the wrong foot here, but he should also have know the London market have been previously present with Spoon at Sanderson (now closed).

Well if they get their act together I may pay them a visit at some time in the future.

[Scottf]

I have just cancelled my reservation  and have booked Bacchus for this coming Friday.

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You managed a reservation at Bacchus for this Friday huh? Interesting