...but how do I get started?

[AlexisM]

Hi everyone,

Let me start by introducing myself: I "discovered" eGullet a couple months ago and I've been reading ever since, but this is my first post. I'm a senior in college majoring in religion, but I've always toyed with the idea of working with food. I love cooking for myself and for small groups of family and friends, but I've never worked in a professional kitchen of any kind.

I don't want to wake up 20 years from now regretting that I'd never even tried to work in a professional kitchen, but I have no idea how to get started. I don't really want to jump into culinary school right now (if ever), I just want to start doing something and not just talking about it all the time. I'd really apreciate any advice you all can give me about what steps to take to begin a culinary career.

Thanks in advance!

[WHT]

Find a place looking for people and apply. If you are honest about your skills they may hire you as a prep person. Avoid places that look for people too often as that is a bad sign. Try a smaller famly run place as you will learn more in a shorter time frame.

Depending on where in NJ you are it might be quite easy to find a place. As some of the places gear up for summer right about now. Willingness to work and learn sometimes work in your favor. You are a blank slate with no bad habbits and that can be an advantage.

[AlexisM]

Find a place looking for people and apply. If you are honest about your skills they may hire you as a prep person.  Avoid places that look for people too often as that is a bad sign. Try a smaller famly run place as you will learn more in a shorter time frame.

Depending on where in NJ you are it might be quite easy to find a place. As some of the places gear up for summer right about now. Willingness to work and learn sometimes work in your favor. You are a blank slate with no bad habbits and that can be an advantage.

←

Thanks for the advice WHT - there are a few places that I can think of that fit the bill, but the food isn't very good in any of them. Does that matter at this stage?

[Reefpimp]

Hmmmmm. Kind of. Here's what you need to bring to the table: "I will do what you tell me, with no backtalk, and I'll do it to the best of my ability." Well, okay--but what what if the place to which you apply has a series of practices with their food that you know to be wrong? Not (say) de-fatting their stocks, for example?

No. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Maybe your best bet would be to place a Craigslist ad, or a local-alternative-weekly ad, saying that you are an older-than-average student looking for a paid European-style apprenticeship; one thing I've noticed about culinary grads is how unbelievably eager they are to share their knowledge, specifically their knowledge on process. Mind you, this is free advice and worth what you paid for it. But a person can learn a lot this way. And much, of course, depends on whether or not you are a "learner."

[piperdown]

I was in somewhat the same position as you last year. I had just finished my Master's degree, but really wanted to try cooking as a career. So I just started going to kitchen's and asking of they were looking for people. I got a bunch of nos, but one place did say yes. It wasn't my favourite restaurant in town, but the food was good, and everything was prepared from scratch, so it was a good learning experience. I'm still there now, and am thinking of going to culinary school.

You just have to willing to work hard and learn. Since everyone else in the kitchen had been cooking for over 10-15 years, I had a lot to learn, but I just paid attention, and read a lot of books at home. Get a bunch of books on techniques, and such and study what you're working on in the kitchen, and never be afraid to ask.

I never thought I'd be doing this a career, but as you said I didn't want to look back on my life and regret ever trying. Now I can't imagine not doing this. So if it's something you want to try, then go for it. If it doesn't work out, then you can always quit and do something else, but at least you tried.

[Kent D]

Every day I look back on my life and regret never trying. But then I ask myself "Did you REALLY want to spend 60-70 hours and up every week cooking the same stuff over and over, without even seeing the people you're cooking for?" I'm just not cut out for that life I think. That much immersion in food would probably kill my love of it. But I do wish I had given it a shot for a few months or years -- flipping burgers at MickyD's doesn't compare, I'm sure.

[WHT]

Thanks for the advice WHT - there are a few places that I can think of that fit the bill, but the food isn't very good in any of them.  Does that matter at this stage?

←

Getting in someplace to learn more is the goal. Too early to think about reputations at this point. It even lends tone to wanting to move on at some point.

[Qwerty]

It's also possible to work for free for a time. Not saying full time, but have a job that pays the bills, and then work in a kitchen 1-2 days a week. Morning, night, whatever works. Most restaurants, even top ones, won't say no to free labor.

Advantage for you is you get to learn some things, work enough to probably find out if this is something you can see yourself doing for a living. Advantage for them is they get an extra body to do grunt work.

If you like it enough, and you do a good enough job, then talk to them about coming on full time. If they like you and can use you they will say yes.

If you get in somewhere, it's a fine line. Don't be afraid to ask questions, but don't pester. There is a lot to do and they may not have time all the time to answer. Things that will help--don't be afraid to hop into the dish pit, grab a broom or a mop, a scrub pad, whatever. Show them you are willing to help out wherever needed.

Not saying you should be a dish dog, but if you are doing nothing and there is a pile of dishes, help the guy out. One of the chefs de partie's floor looking a little spotty? Grab a broom and sweep it for him/her. It will be appreciated and noticed and make them more willing to work with you if you show that kind of attitude and work ethic. Hopefully my point is made.

Hope it goes well. Let us know what happens.

[Melanger]

It's also possible to work for free for a time. Not saying full time, but have a job that pays the bills, and then work in a kitchen 1-2 days a week. Morning, night, whatever works. Most restaurants, even top ones, won't say no to free labor.

Advantage for you is you get to learn some things, work enough to probably find out if this is something you can see yourself doing for a living. Advantage for them is they get an extra body to do grunt work.

If you like it enough, and you do a good enough job, then talk to them about coming on full time. If they like you and can use you they will say yes.

If you get in somewhere, it's a fine line. Don't be afraid to ask questions, but don't pester. There is a lot to do and they may not have time all the time to answer. Things that will help--don't be afraid to hop into the dish pit, grab a broom or a mop, a scrub pad, whatever. Show them you are willing to help out wherever needed.

Not saying you should be a dish dog, but if you are doing nothing and there is a pile of dishes, help the guy out. One of the chefs de partie's floor looking a little spotty? Grab a broom and sweep it for him/her. It will be appreciated and noticed and make them more willing to work with you if you show that kind of attitude and work ethic. Hopefully my point is made.

Hope it goes well. Let us know what happens.

←

Rock on!!! Absoloutely. One of my fondest moments (actually the source of many) was in cooking school when one of the dish-ey washers called out and I had a swell time scrubbing floor and rondouts. Fabulous. Actually many restaurants that fancy themselves as famous have a staff that came up from scullery. To this day there is a zen in soap and the sweet sweet nasty nasty dirty smell of bleach. It is sweet, I swear. Nevertheless, the best cookies that I have ever had were the ones whom upon the presentation of a new recipe proclaimed " cheffie, i make this one like the orage chiboust-eeeee. oui, mon frere, just like the orange chibouste-eeeee. go va allez, make the MONG-o chiboust-eeeee just insert methodology here. damn that stuff was good. amen every day. I just need new recruits for the next pirate ship.

[Daniel Rogov]

And what no-one until now has mentionned.....in your free hours, spend as much of your time and money as is possible in dining out at a large variety of restaurants in order to see what others are doing, to determine your own tastes, to develop in a way a personal repertoire and will one day lead to a personal philosophy of what you would want in your own kitchen.

[Jennifer F]

First, let me say Good Luck!!

My husband was in a similar situation. He was just out of college & at a desk job he hated. He had never cooked professionally before, but really enjoyed cooking for me & having dinner parties (he hadn't even cooked before he met/moved in with me...let's just say my culinary skills are lacking!). During that time, I can't even tell you how many people we talked to who said "I wish I would have done that instead of XYZ." He didn't want to be one of those people. He at least wanted to try it out to see if it was for him.

So, he worked his regular 40 hour per week job & moonlighted around 20 hours per week as a dishwasher at an Italian restaurant. In about a month he also started working on the line.

Long story short....we moved across the country, he went to culinary school, loved it and also loves what he does now. So -- It can happen, with a little work on your part!

[godito]

I'm all for getting a part-time job at a nearby restaurant. Most welcome somebody willing to do the mise-en-place or someone to work weekends. You can learn a lot peeling carrots, doing sauces... heck, even washing the dishes.

It's true that you might want to be exposed to good food from the get-go. However, there are a few equally important factors to consider.

1. Cooking at home and for friends is in no way similar to working in this industry. Wherever you choose to work, it will give you an idea if you really like working in a professional kitchen. A lot in this business has nothing to do with "liking food". Be sure you wouldn't just be happier cooking at home.

2. Try to avoid "chain" restaurants. Sure, you will get to serve a lot of people in a short amount of time, but most of the food comes pre-elaborated. I think it's important to learn how to do that. In most kitchens, the prep will take up most of your day.

Wish you the best of lucks. Cooking professionally has given me more satisfactions than headaches, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But it's not a job that fits everybody. You have to be a little crazy to put up with the long hours and little money.

Cheers!

[AlexisM]

Thank you all so much for your kind words and wonderful advice! I'm cooking for 18 tonight for a dinner party with some friends, so I'm going to start canvassing my area on Monday afternoon. I'll make sure to keep updating the board.

Thanks again everyone!

[jkonick]

Last summer I was in your exact position - I'm currently a sophomore in college, studying French and comparative literature, but I also have a love for food (and need for money) so I figured I'd try to find work in a restaurant. I basically just started looking around craigslist and found a job as a prep cook at a pretty new restaurant, and applied for it. Partly I think it helped that it was a newer place, because they were still working things out, plus a lot of the staff was new to the restaurant business as well.

I basically went in and said "I haven't had any experience in the food industry aside from working at Subway, but I have a real passion for food, I'm willing to do what it takes to learn, and I look forward to the challenge of working in a professional kitchen," and I got the job.

It is definitely different from cooking at home - something which I do avidly, but it can be just as rewarding, in a different way. It is very fast paced, so you don't get the same leisurely pleasure out of it as cooking at home, but if you love food and cooking then there's really nothing better than working with good ingredients and making good food.

[Mikeb19]

It's funny, I'm sitting here right now wishing I didn't spend 5 years of my life cooking for a living.

I've been working in fine dining restaurants since 2004, including the top 3 in the city I live in (according to most reviews, publications, and popular opinion). I've worked for chefs who themselves had worked in 2 and 3 Michelin star restaurants. I've cooked for countless celebrities and food critics, I've had a recipe published, and had my photo attached to a newspaper review. I've even started getting offers for executive chef jobs, and am currently working as a pastry chef. I'm only 22 years old, so by most peoples standards I'm doing pretty well in the industry so far... (especially without an education)

But then theres the downsides... Long hours (nearly 3000 a year) - and they're not easy hours either, always working at a torrid pace. The money is terrible, most people can't even imagine. Even for executive chefs it's not great money (there are exceptions) - and the chefs who ARE making the big bucks usually didn't cash in until late in their careers... Kitchens get very hot, 100+ degrees F, needless to say it's uncomfortable. The stress levels are out of control, long hours, the heat, dealing with waiters (who themselves are stressed by the customers), bad customers, dealing with cooks (many of whom are alcoholics, drug addicts, culinary school students, etc...) - altogether it's not a fun place to be. Want to raise a family? Good luck. Odds are you'll never see them, and might not even be able to support them on your salary.

Honestly, the most fun I ever had cooking was on those slow days (20 or less customers), where it was only the executive chef and I working... We were doing food that could easily get 2 Michelin stars, and we worked so well together there was no stress. Of course, that wasn't typical. Often it was busy, the rest of the brigade was working, many of whom weren't very good cooks. It felt more like babysitting than working, since I was in charge at night when the chef wasn't around (the sous-chef worked opposite shifts).

Strait up, cooking at home is much more fun. The life of a restaurant cook, well, sucks. I'm getting out of the industry myself, before it's too late.

[Truc]

Mike i like how you mesh "drug addicts, alcoholic and culinary school students in the same sentence." Any who I am also some who recently got out of the game from the culinary scene and let me say that its quite hard to just give up. I stll have those times where I ache to go back but then most of the time im glad im not doing it anymore. Although, if you are thnking about going into the industry like everyone already has said, work in a restaurant you would like to work at first for at least a year full on. Stage in between adn dedicate your time time to some more exclsuive restaurant and offer them your free labour and learn. And after you do that you could decide to go to culianry school but IMHO the best way to learn is to buy a plane ticket to Europe, travel eat and work adn as apprenctice (get a visa first) and learn that way. I did this both and worked and learned and had great experiences but after a while the realities of the industry just took a toll on me and I just had to leave. I might go back to it do some part time work for a caterer for fun or start a small business but who knows. Good luck and be sure to take care of yourself above all.

[David D'Aprix]

I'm all for getting a part-time job at a nearby restaurant. Most welcome somebody willing to do the mise-en-place or someone to work weekends. You can learn a lot peeling carrots, doing sauces... heck, even washing the dishes.

It's true that you might want to be exposed to good food from the get-go. However, there are a few equally important factors to consider.

1. Cooking at home and for friends is in no way similar to working in this industry. Wherever you choose to work, it will give you an idea if you really like working in a professional kitchen. A lot in this business has nothing to do with "liking food". Be sure you wouldn't just be happier cooking at home.

2. Try to avoid "chain" restaurants. Sure, you will get to serve a lot of people in a short amount of time, but most of the food comes pre-elaborated. I think it's important to learn how to do that. In most kitchens, the prep will take up most of your day.

Wish you the best of lucks. Cooking professionally has given me more satisfactions than headaches, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But it's not a job that fits everybody. You have to be a little crazy to put up with the long hours and little money.

Cheers!

←

I agree wholeheartedly about both points. I would add that, in my opinion, you should start as a dishwasher. If you can't stand washing dishes, you won't make it as a cook. Cooking in a restaurant is really hard work, but if you manage to get an intro-level job prepping, you won't get the real flavor of the kitchen the way you would as a dishwasher. They get buried with dirty dishes just the way line cooks get buried with orders. And it can be filthy, exhausting work. If you like washing dishes, you have a chance to succeed in restaurant cooking.

[Reefpimp]

A lot of cooks secretly enjoy washing dishes. I'm one of them. It's a welcome break from the insanity of the line, and it's such a mindless task: Get the stainless out of the way, stack the dishes, and then burn through them all in a glorious assembly-line run; change the water in the machine, run the glassware, and then pop out back for a leisurely smoke while you compadres are still getting hated on.

[Michaeltheonion]

IM glad people are highlighting the good and the bad here. Loads of cooks Ive encountered come out of school with no knowledge of how the business actually works. I think its the celebrity chef/ MTV factor. People wtch iron chef and see the glory involved in their intricitte presentations, or see Gina DeLaurentis( ?) Leisuraly cooking infront of a camera and think that this is the reality of their situation. The reality isnt harsh, its just different. People outline the bad in the industry all the time, Bourdain talked at length about it in Kitchen confidential Bad hours/pay/ environment. However theres plenty of careers like this right now. You could be an accountant and be financially secure and have all the free time you like but is this happiness. I think it comes down to being honest withyourself. If you have any pangs of doubt then this life isnt for you. All the successful chefs I know are the ones who are happy with their choices and the industry they reside in. They are the people who never complain about any of the previously mentioned drawbacks, for these individuals these elements exist along with the ones they love, that is the satisfaction of doing something that they know is for them. I think that it depends on how your going to define your success in the world. If loads of money, job security and yearly vacations are part of this then cooking isnt the career for you. On a personal note I find the stress and everything to be one of the things I love about my job. I like being on my toes and always anticipating some wrench being thrown in my otherwise controlled world.

Oh yeah and I think the most important advice you can get is EAT! eat all you can everywhere you can. Eat at upscale joints or good honest street food. Eat whatever vegetable is in season or some meat from a local farm. Better yet visit some local farmers and see what goes inot the production of the food you are about to consume. This really attatches you to tradition and these memories will sustain you through even the worst nights in a kitchen.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Michaeltheonion (log)

[David D'Aprix]

IM glad people are highlighting the good and the bad here. Loads of cooks Ive encountered come out of school with no knowledge of how the business actually works.

This is perhaps the truly critical point. Professional cooking is nothing like home cooking or TV cooking. If you view long hours as negative, you don't belong in the biz. That's why I think that a dishwashing job gives a really good sense of the industry. I started as a dishwasher in high school, and I absolutely loved it. I still don't mind it one bit. I've met lots of cooks who come out of culinary schools who think that restaurant work will be like school. I hired a guy once, from the CIA (my alma mater as well). I asked him to make a soup. Three hours later he had a couple of quarts of soup ready. I gave him more chances, but he just couldn't fathom production, had to let him go.

I tell people that long hours are normal for many many professions. If you go to investment banking, you'll be working minimum twelve hours a day, usually more. Ditto for lawyers, doctors. Etc.

You have to love the work itself, and the camaraderie of the kitchen. It becomes your life, which Michaeltheonion perfectly sums up, and if you need 40-hour weeks and vacations and weekend golfing to feel fulfilled, do not become a professional cook. I thought that "Wife of a Chef" gave a realistic view, without the sense of foreboding that many authors lend to the field.

At this moment I'm cooking at a fraternity, which gives me time with my two daughters, 13 and 10. Also, time to work on writing. My wife has a full-time job as well. But I've promised my 10-year-old that we'll open a restaurant when she's sixteen (she loves the work, I can tell already). I'll be 62 then, but I wholeheartedly disagree with Michael Ruhlman, in "The Reach of a Chef," that chefs after fifty just can't take the work anymore. He doesn't say it just that way, but he talks about it a lot, that older guys have to find a way out of the kitchen, or at least off the line. Maybe I won't be able to move with the speed I had when I was thirty, but I'll be able to design a place that works for me.

[Qwerty]

Any luck Alexis? How did the dinner party go?

[AlexisM]

Any luck Alexis? How did the dinner party go?

←

Hey Qwerty,

Thanks for asking! The dinner party went really well. It ended up being more like tapas though. The theme was aphrodisiacs, so I tried to use ingredients that I'd heard were aphrodisiacs. I made mini tortilla espanolas, (traditional except for the addition of diced red pepper for color and then set in muffin tins under the broiler), an avocado salad, very spicy chicken curry and then fresh fruit with two kinds of chocolate for dipping (spiced "Mexican style" with cinnamon and cayenne pepper and then I used Michael Chiarello's chocolate fondue recipe which uses cabernet sauvignon as the flavoring for the other).

Unfortunately, I haven't found anywhere willing to take me on yet. Maybe I'm not going at the right times b/c I never get to talk to any kitchen staff. I haven't given up though I'll do my rounds again the first week of March.

[Qwerty]

What times are you going?

If they are open for lunch and dinner, then early around 7-8am, or between service from 3-4 would be ideal. If they are only open for dinner, I would say sometime around 11am would be ideal.

It may take some persistance so don't give up.

You could also try phoning first to see if they are even willing to meet with you. Or, go in to eat and express your deisre to work there to the server, who may in tern take you to meet the chef...depending on the place.

Dunno, just throwing some ideas out there.

Edited February 24, 2007 by Qwerty (log)

[AlexisM]

What times are you going?

If they are open for lunch and dinner, then early around 7-8am, or between service from 3-4 would be ideal. If they are only open for dinner, I would say sometime around 11am would be ideal.

It may take some persistance so don't give up.

You could also try phoning first to see if they are even willing to meet with you. Or, go in to eat and express your deisre to work there to the server, who may in tern take you to meet the chef...depending on the place.

Dunno, just throwing some ideas out there.

←

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Still no luck and now I have to focus back on my Thesis, but I'll start looking again in a few weeks. I'll keep you updated!

Alexis

[Qwerty]

Thanks for the update...don't give up.