Top 3 Tasting Menus or A La Carte

[ulterior epicure]

Excuse the interruption. I have a question I'd like throw to the NYC folk:

1. Name your three favorite top-echelon Manhattan restaurants. Factors to consider include atmosphere, service, wine list, current performance, and last, but certainly never least (if not mostly), the food. (small print: excluding Jean Georges and per se)

2. Tasting menu or a la carte. Why?

3. You may freely editorialize to explain each choice.

Will look forward to reading answers and discussions. Thanks everyone!

u.e.

[oakapple]

1. Name your three favorite top-echelon Manhattan restaurants.  Factors to consider include atmosphere, service, wine list, current performance, and last, but certainly never least (if not mostly), the food. (small print: excluding Jean Georges and per se)

2. Tasting menu or a la carte.  Why?

3. You may freely editorialize to explain each choice.

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The three best high-end meals I've had in the last year were at Alain Ducasse, Country, and The Modern. In all the dimensions you asked about, they had it all. Ducasse, of course, is no longer open.

I think Asiate has one of the best rooms in Manhattan, with excellent service and a very good wine list. The food obviously cannot compare to the above places, but you will eat well there. It is clearly well above a one-star restaurant, whatever Amanda Hesser may say.

I fear re-opening the tasting menu vs. a la carte debate. I tend to prefer tasting menus at these restaurants, as it gives you a chance to sample a much wider range of what the chef has to offer.

[ulterior epicure]

The three best high-end meals I've had in the last year were at Alain Ducasse, Country, and The Modern. In all the dimensions you asked about, they had it all. Ducasse, of course, is no longer open.

I think Asiate has one of the best rooms in Manhattan, with excellent service and a very good wine list. The food obviously cannot compare to the above places, but you will eat well there. It is clearly well above a one-star restaurant, whatever Amanda Hesser may say.

I fear re-opening the tasting menu vs. a la carte debate. I tend to prefer tasting menus at these restaurants, as it gives you a chance to sample a much wider range of what the chef has to offer.

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Thanks oakapple.

I'm sure you surmised my question is actually for personal benefit. I will be visiting NYC shortly and have three dinner reservations to make. I have pretty much decided on one restaurant, but have two left. I've whittled my choices down to a short list, but would like to see if they show up on anyone else's top-choice lists. Of course, I've also been reading in each of those restaurant's threads on the forum - but, some are much more update than others. To be honest, I've been "under the gun" in my own life recently (which will all end very shortly, thankfully!) and have somewhat fallen out of the NYC loop... in desperate need of a primer.

Like you, I also feared opening up the Pandora's tasting menu issue, but I do know that some restaurants are particularly good for their tastings, while others are better for their a la carte. While generally, I always do the tasting, I thought there might be a few restaurants that would warrant an exception.

I started this thread because none of the recent "I'm coming to NYC" threads asked about the type of restaurants I am curious about. And, I don't feel appropriate butting my own query in on the discussions that are intended to help others in their own specific restaurant searches.

Thanks again, oakapple. I hope others will contribute.

[Nathan]

excluding those two, you should probably consider:

1. Masa. I have not been. But it's rep certainly precedes it.

2. hmmm.... WD-50. tasting menu.

3. maybe EMP? maybe Esca? maybe LB or Daniel?

[Nathan]

one other thought:

it receives no love here, but people who's opinions I respect have raved about the tasting menu at Del Posto.

I also completely forgot about Atelier Robuchon.

I'd make that my third pick. I went ala carte but the tasting menu looks like an excellent survey of the menu.

[GordonCooks]

Daniel, Bouley, Le Bernardin...all top tier (maybe not No.1 always but never too far our of the game) Maybe Gordon Ramsay? Personally, I would add Craft or WD-50 to Per Se and JG to round it out. Not sure if you plan on trips to London or Paris, otherwise a visit to L'Atelier or Gordon Ramsay may be a must eat.

[ulterior epicure]

LOL! Okay, maybe I should just cut to the chase. Here's my shortlist:

1. The Modern

2. Bouley

3. L'Atelier Joel Robuchon

4. Masa (reservations will be tres iffy)

5. As between Babbo and Del Posto? Thoughts?

6. Aquavit

[edited to add: These are in no particular order]

Mildly curious about Gordon Ramsey - but ditto on the Masa reservations concern. As well, I'm really afraid that I would be disappointed, as I have yet to hear about one all-around stellar experience.

Thanks!

Edited February 13, 2007 by ulterior epicure (log)

[Nathan]

Babbo is probably more consistent than Del Posto.

Del Posto is certainly more of a "fine dining" experience.

you can compare menus here:

http://www.babbonyc.com/menu2.html

http://www.delposto.com/dinner_menu.htm

but I like your top three picks as they stand.

[ulterior epicure]

Babbo is probably more consistent than Del Posto.

Del Posto is certainly more of a "fine dining" experience.

you can compare menus here:

http://www.babbonyc.com/menu2.html

http://www.delposto.com/dinner_menu.htm

but I like your top three picks as they stand.

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Thanks, Nathan. Actually, I listed those in no particular order.

[oakapple]

Here's my shortlist:

1. The Modern

2. Bouley

3. L'Atelier Joel Robuchon

4. Masa (reservations will be tres iffy)

5. As between Babbo and Del Posto?  Thoughts?

6. Aquavit

Mildly curious about Gordon Ramsey - but ditto on the Masa reservations concern.  As well, I'm really afraid that I would be disappointed, as I have yet to hear about one all-around stellar experience.

Thanks!

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As I understand it, reservations at Masa are not particularly difficult to come by. Of the ones you listed, I think Babbo is the toughest to book (although you can eat at the bar any day).

I agree with Nathan about the trade-offs between Babbo and Del Posto.

[larrylee]

Thumbs up to L'atelier.

[daisy17]

I just had the tasting menu (with wine pairing) at L'Atelier and it was really, really good. My only hesitation in recommending it is the astronomical, hard-for-me-to-justify price you'll pay for the experience. Overall my meal was highly enjoyable - service was attentive and friendly, and we sat at the counter which is almost like dining at the bar (my strong preference) - and while there were some amazing dishes (langoustine truffle ravioli with foie gras) that took my breath away, there were some that were just good. I think it's too expensive to just be good. Next time I'm going a la carte - I think that you can hit all of Robuchon's highlights that way, and still be able to make your mortgage payment for the month.

As for Babbo/Del Posto, I haven't eaten at Del Posto but went there for a cocktail last week (liked the Negroni) and the setting was way too mammoth/overdone/Vegas for me. Babbo is much more my style - smaller and more intimate. That'll be the hardest reservation for you to get by far.

and if you can work a lunch at Momofuku in, I'd highly recommend it. I think you'd really enjoy it.

[ulterior epicure]

Thanks daisy17

That's one of the first times I've actually heard of a la carte being more economical than tasting menu. I guess I'll have to go look up their menu for prices.

re: Babbo. I won't have a problem securing reservations. And, I think I am leaning toward it over DP.

[Nathan]

the price point for Robuchon can be difficult to assess.

I ate there ala carte for $150 (with booze, tax and tip).

but doing the tasting menu and adding a bunch of pairings can put you back $400 (far too expensive for that level of informality imo).

the menu pricing can be somewhat bizarre (the langoustine course is a bargain at $17!)

[ulterior epicure]

the price point for Robuchon can be difficult to assess.

I ate there ala carte for $150 (with booze, tax and tip).

but doing the tasting menu and adding a bunch of pairings can put you back $400 (far too expensive for that level of informality imo).

the menu pricing can be somewhat bizarre (the langoustine course is a bargain at $17!)

←

My, I had no idea there was such a difference between the tasting and a la carte. Unfortunately, the website (through Four Seasons Hotel) has no prices listed.

[Nathan]

here you go:

http://www.menupages.com/restaurantdetails...d=0&cuisineid=0

[larrylee]

the price point for Robuchon can be difficult to assess.

I ate there ala carte for $150 (with booze, tax and tip).

but doing the tasting menu and adding a bunch of pairings can put you back $400 (far too expensive for that level of informality imo).

the menu pricing can be somewhat bizarre (the langoustine course is a bargain at $17!)

←

$150 matches my meal there, though we ate much more than we drank. The langoustine was spectacular. There were four of us and we were ordering, it seemed, most of the appetizers. The kitchen sent out a complimentary second order to "even out" the table. We sat at one of the tables and it felt more formal than it would have at the bar and was, actually, quite comfortable. The service was effusive, but not intrusive.

L'ateliers portion sizes lend themselves to easy sharing, which I think enhances the overall dining experience.

[ulterior epicure]

$150 matches my meal there, though we ate much more than we drank. The langoustine was spectacular. There were four of us and we were ordering, it seemed, most of the appetizers. The kitchen sent out a complimentary second order to "even out" the table.  We sat at one of the tables and it felt more formal than it would have at the bar and was, actually, quite comfortable. The service was effusive, but not intrusive.

L'ateliers portion sizes lend themselves to easy sharing, which I think enhances the overall dining experience.

So, a "Table for One" would not be the best way to experience L'Atelier? (i.e. the menu is more suitable for sharing?) This is what I gather from what I've read about the plates at The Modern...

u.e.

[Nathan]

Atelier would be ideal for a group but one can certainly put together a nice solo meal. (I would much prefer the counter over a table.)

The plates at Bar Room at the Modern are small plates.

The Modern proper has a traditional menu format (and an entirely different menu).

[larrylee]

Atelier would be ideal for a group but one can certainly put together a nice solo meal.  (I would much prefer the counter over a table.)

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Agreed with Nathan - I think you could have a very fine solo meal here, especially at the counter. One note, though. When you place your reservation you're asked about your preference for the counter or a table. The reservationist says that they'll try to accomodate your preference as best as they can but you might not get what you want.

[larrylee]

L'ateliers portion sizes lend themselves to easy sharing, which I think enhances the overall dining experience.

So, a "Table for One" would not be the best way to experience L'Atelier? (i.e. the menu is more suitable for sharing?)

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My previous statement makes it sound like the portion sizes at L'Atelier are large. They're not. What I meant is that the portion sizes allow you to both share the small plates -and- try a variety of dishes, limited only by your budget.

Another tangent - at our request the kitchen provided a plate of pasta and tomato sauce for one of the members at our table. It was simple yet sublime. "It's just pasta and sauce, right?" ...Yes... and no.

[daisy17]

I'm sure you could do a lot of damage ordering a la carte when some of the plates are in the $40 range, but the tasting menu was $195 when I went and was about 7-8 courses. I definitely would have been happy with a little less food anyway, and the tasting menu seemed to select the most expensive items from the a la carte menu. I've ordered a la carte (alone) in Paris several times and was very happy doing so. And the counter is a great place to dine alone . . . .

[Sneakeater]

1. EMP

2. Atelier Robuchon

3. Pichonline

Tasting at all. Cuz I'm a pig.

(I'd really like to try Ramsay if I could get in. Maybe now I can.)

[Mayur]

1. The Modern

2. WD-50

3. L'Atelier de Robuchon

I would list Bouley (possibly at #1), but it didn't make the list because IMX, consistency and quality have been down since Upstairs at Bouley opened. [That said, I seem to have had an inexplicably better experience at Bouley than the recent(ish) reviewers; neither the little room next to the Bakery, nor the shift to Danube's room, nor the shift back to somewhat expanded quarters, seem to have generated dining experiences (for me) that were all that much below the Duane Street restaurant.]

As for ordering style:

The Modern: I'd be split between a la carte and seasonal (though not chef's) tasting, having done both and had a fabulous meal each way. Three courses is definitely "enough" in the sense that you'll receive a good idea of what the kitchen is doing; having the ability to choose in general is nice, as there aren't clear winners on this menu! The additional variety offered and the sheer opulence and creativity of some of the seasonal tasting-menu-only dishes add to its appeal, but it is a) a *lot* of food and b) expensive. The chef's tasting I'd skip, since it features one or two of the less exciting dishes on the menu and is somewhat restrictive (usually bypassing the best desserts, especially).

WD-50: Tasting, for the simple fact that larger doses of Wylie's creativity are always welcome and the tasting menu is thoughtfully composed, paced, and chosen with an eye to creating a tightly-themed and harmonious dining experience. That said, if I were going more than once in a month, as I often have, I might switch to a la carte at WD-50; the tasting menu is sometimes repetitious.

L'Atelier: A la carte all the way. IMX, it's not the sort of place where ordering a tasting menu really gives you all that carefully composed and structured a dining experience, the plates are small anyway (and sharing-friendly, which heightens the appeal of a la carte!), and the cuisine in general seems more about picking and choosing than enjoying a long, composed meal.

(Also the pricing is weird!)

All that said, if you decide to go to Masa, I'd do that!

[EDIT: Wow, nonsensical first sentence! Woohoo!]

Edited February 14, 2007 by Mayur (log)

[Mayur]

1.  EMP

2.  Atelier Robuchon

3.  Pichonline

Tasting at all.  Cuz I'm a pig.

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IMX, the tasting menu at EMP basically features main-sized portions for the meat courses anyway, so you *are* talking a lot of food. Pig away!