Un-Savory Uber Useful Business Practices

[Busboy]

But ley me be clear --  there's a significant difference between a side of beef hanging in a temperature-controlled meat locker with circulating air and humidity control, or even a pan of pre-made meatballs in the walk-in,  and a pile of meatballs (dry it was not) shoved underneath the dishwasher.

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Certainly true. Sometimes in these cases I'll run for the hills, but other times I'll take a couple of steps back and see that in spite of all the theory, these people have doing this for years (and maybe it's a tradition that goes back farther than that) and no one seems to be dying, so maybe they actually know what they're doing with that mop bucket and used meat!

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The fact that I was completely addicted to the dish and had eaten it many times before certainly made me a little more relaxed about the prep than I might have been.

[Gastro888]

Is this true? I mean really I find it hard to believe that Thomas Keller would use sysco products in such an iconic dish as steat frites. Where does this info come from. It may shatter my view of this man. However I just found out that Charlie Trotter trains executive chefs for Aramark so it would suprise me.

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Thomas Keller uses Illy pods for the espresso at Cafe Bouchon...

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NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[larrylee]

That being said, giving recipes and directions on how to make fries in the Bouchon cookbook is a little disingenuous, but I can also se why he didn't leave that out.

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Another possibility is that he started off making fries at Bouchon using the technique outlined in his cookbook, but after a growth in popularity it was no longer feasible to do so. There was an article in the WSJ a few months ago about "'dirty' little shortcuts" that top name chefs use that seem to go against what seems "proper" in haute cuisine. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

[Luckylies]

Is this true? I mean really I find it hard to believe that Thomas Keller would use sysco products in such an iconic dish as steat frites. Where does this info come from. It may shatter my view of this man. However I just found out that Charlie Trotter trains executive chefs for Aramark so it would suprise me.

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Thomas Keller uses Illy pods for the espresso at Cafe Bouchon...

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NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

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T.K is a company representative of illy. I saw him speak (and he catered) a lunch for food editors (except for the main course which was done by Asiate). I'll tell you how my new pod coffee machine works out

Seriously though, you want the guy to grow the beans himself?

[Nathan]

Is this true? I mean really I find it hard to believe that Thomas Keller would use sysco products in such an iconic dish as steat frites. Where does this info come from. It may shatter my view of this man. However I just found out that Charlie Trotter trains executive chefs for Aramark so it would suprise me.

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Thomas Keller uses Illy pods for the espresso at Cafe Bouchon...

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NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

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T.K is a company representative of illy. I saw him speak (and he catered) a lunch for food editors (except for the main course which was done by Asiate). I'll tell you how my new pod coffee machine works out

Seriously though, you want the guy to grow the beans himself?

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well, he could use La Columbe

[Luckylies]

aah...

what are they paying these days?

[robyn]

Here's a link to the article

Frozen Fries

My opinion on it it that, if he feel's there good enough for is restaurant, then it's OK with me. I think if a lot of people were complaining aobut it, he wouldn't use them. That being said, giving recipes and directions on how to make fries in the Bouchon cookbook is a little disingenuous, but I can also se why he didn't leave that out.

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I don't eat french fries that often. When I eat them at home - they're frozen - and ok. When I eat them out - I expect them to be fresh. If Ted's Montana Grill (a chain) can make fresh from scratch (hundreds of servings a day) - there's no reason Bouchon can't do it do. By the way - it's fun to sit at the counter facing the "line" at a Ted's Montana Grill - and watching them make the french fries from scratch. Robyn

[piperdown]

but if they're really good, up to Keller's standards good, does it really matter? I was just watching the rerun of No Reservations: Vegas. Where Tony eats at Bouchon, and he admitted that Bouchon fries were better than his, and he considered his the best in NY.

[TheFoodTutor]

If Ted's Montana Grill (a chain) can make fresh from scratch (hundreds of servings a day) - there's no reason Bouchon can't do it do.  By the way - it's fun to sit at the counter facing the "line" at a Ted's Montana Grill - and watching them make the french fries from scratch.  Robyn

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As fun as it is to watch them cut the fries at Ted's, I don't eat their french fries when I go there, because I really don't like them. They do cut their fries all day long, but then they give them only one frying, whereas "blanching" the fries, cooling them, then frying them at 375 for service gives the right crispness that I prefer.

An aside: I am truly a prick about what french fries I will or will not eat because, at my age, height and weight, a lousy french fry is simply not worth the calorie expenditure, for me. Your mileage may vary.

At any rate, I did mention the procedure for french fries at the small-ish chain (47 restaurants, currently) where I work in the eGullet foodblog that is linked at the bottom of my posts. It involves a good deal of work, and of the 5 walk-ins that are there, one is entirely devoted to the french fries that have been cut, rinsed, drained, spun in a salad spinner, blanched in 300 degree oil, drained again, and then chilled while waiting their finishing fry for service.

If one cannot devote that sort of time/energy/space/labor to making terrific french fries, then it is understandable that frozen french fries (which I prefer over what Ted's serves, unfortunately) are a reasonable alternative. I am not that familiar with what is added to frozen french fries, or whether they are blanched, then frozen, or what specific blend of preservatives, sugars and such are added to the particular brand that Keller chooses to serve at Bouchon.

However, I agree with you, wholeheartedly, that knowing, first hand, that the from-scratch version can be done on even a very large scale for a very large volume of guests, makes me think much less of Keller, as a chef. I would have thought that his dedication to ingredients would dictate otherwise.

I am a fan of his work, but I've never been fortunate enough to eat his food, outside of the things I've replicated from his cookbooks, if it makes any difference.

Edited February 21, 2007 by TheFoodTutor (log)

[Joisey]

That being said, giving recipes and directions on how to make fries in the Bouchon cookbook is a little disingenuous, but I can also se why he didn't leave that out.

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Another possibility is that he started off making fries at Bouchon using the technique outlined in his cookbook, but after a growth in popularity it was no longer feasible to do so. There was an article in the WSJ a few months ago about "'dirty' little shortcuts" that top name chefs use that seem to go against what seems "proper" in haute cuisine. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

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If you have read "Seasoning of a Chef" by Doug Psaltis, the chapter where he works at French Laundry mentions a buddy of his who worked at Bouchon, frying fries all day.

[prasantrin]

My opinion on it it that, if he feel's there good enough for is restaurant, then it's OK with me. I think if a lot of people were complaining aobut it, he wouldn't use them.

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I've eaten the "frites" (should we just call them "fries", now?) at Bouchon in LV, and I didn't think they were good enough for the restaurant. When they were hot, they were fine, but when they cooled just a little, they were pretty bad. I wrote somewhere on eGullet that the fries reminded me of McDonald's fries. Now I know why.

I feel even more ripped off that I paid as much as I did for them (not that they were very expensive, but they were about twice as expensive as a large order of McD's fries, for about the same volume and quality). I suppose I should have asked first, so it's my own fault. Buyer beware, and all that.

[lancastermike]

When I was F&B manager of a large resort hotel we used to sell draft beer at a keg price for banquets and weddings and such. We charged some insane amount and often sold the same keg several times as most functions would not finish the keg. I would end up getting almost $500 dollars for something I paid 30 bucks for plus charging them a bartender fee.

[piperdown]

I feel even more ripped off that I paid as much as I did for them (not that they were very expensive, but they were about twice as expensive as a large order of McD's fries, for about the same volume and quality).  I suppose I should have asked first, so it's my own fault.  Buyer beware, and all that.

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We'll that's a very valid point. He's paying very little, and there isn't much labour involved, so it does seem like a rip-off to charge a lot for them.

[Michaeltheonion]

Im really against all forms of convenience products. If you cant diy dont do it at all. Once you begin using one short cut it becomes a habbit and your prone to do it again. I find it strange that keller would say that the quality of a mass produced product would be finer than what can be made with a persons hands. Isnt that where quality comes from?I wonder if the Keller who wrote the french laundry 8 years ago would have condoned this practice or if giving up his role as a full time cook and an eye oin the bottom line is influcneing this train of thought. Something to conisder.

I thinik the most unsavoury practice Ive seen is trying to trick the customer. some menus might as well have footnotes and a bibliography. How many people off the street know what is a sabaon or tabac de cusine? Ive seen many cooks substitute something or leave something out telling me "The customer wont know." But how are they supposed to knwo what thing is if we dont give it to them? Thats the one thing that really grinds my gears, that and shortcuts...

[larrylee]

We'll that's a very valid point. He's paying very little, and there isn't much labour involved, so it does seem like a rip-off to charge a lot for them.

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I think that's just a fact of life in the business. If he wrote one thing in his cookbook it's quite possible it was valid at the time. He's under no obligation to put up a sign at his restaurants notifying everyone of the change, to publish a recant of his fry technique, etc. Heck, there's a good chance that people eating at his restaurants even knew that he (once?) spent so much effort making french fries.

Restaurants overcharge for lots of things. Bottled water. Alcohol. For ambiance, celebrity, whatever. I think this point is overblown.

[robyn]

If Ted's Montana Grill (a chain) can make fresh from scratch (hundreds of servings a day) - there's no reason Bouchon can't do it do.  By the way - it's fun to sit at the counter facing the "line" at a Ted's Montana Grill - and watching them make the french fries from scratch.  Robyn

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As fun as it is to watch them cut the fries at Ted's, I don't eat their french fries when I go there, because I really don't like them. They do cut their fries all day long, but then they give them only one frying, whereas "blanching" the fries, cooling them, then frying them at 375 for service gives the right crispness that I prefer.

An aside: I am truly a prick about what french fries I will or will not eat because, at my age, height and weight, a lousy french fry is simply not worth the calorie expenditure, for me. Your mileage may vary.

At any rate, I did mention the procedure for french fries at the small-ish chain (47 restaurants, currently) where I work in the eGullet foodblog that is linked at the bottom of my posts. It involves a good deal of work, and of the 5 walk-ins that are there, one is entirely devoted to the french fries that have been cut, rinsed, drained, spun in a salad spinner, blanched in 300 degree oil, drained again, and then chilled while waiting their finishing fry for service.

If one cannot devote that sort of time/energy/space/labor to making terrific french fries, then it is understandable that frozen french fries (which I prefer over what Ted's serves, unfortunately) are a reasonable alternative. I am not that familiar with what is added to frozen french fries, or whether they are blanched, then frozen, or what specific blend of preservatives, sugars and such are added to the particular brand that Keller chooses to serve at Bouchon.

However, I agree with you, wholeheartedly, that knowing, first hand, that the from-scratch version can be done on even a very large scale for a very large volume of guests, makes me think much less of Keller, as a chef. I would have thought that his dedication to ingredients would dictate otherwise.

I am a fan of his work, but I've never been fortunate enough to eat his food, outside of the things I've replicated from his cookbooks, if it makes any difference.

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I must admit that I haven't paid really close attention to what happens to the fries at our local Ted's. I just like to watch the employees cut them up in the slicing device . Thwomp - and you have a pile of uncooked fries. But then they are put in water - don't know the temp. Then in one fry thing - then another right before serving. Can't say how they taste - because I've never eaten them (I usually like the braised things there - like braised bison ribs - and they don't go well with fries.)

I am with you when it comes to eating fries in general. I don't like them that much to start with (they are frequently served cold and kind of mushy) - and I can't afford the calories - so I don't eat them very often. And most of the time I eat them - it's at home - a grilled burger and some fresh out of the oven crispy frozen Ore-Ida "fast fries" (which I guess are supposed to be like those served at some chain fast food places). At least at home - they are hot and crisp.

I also agree with you that if Keller can't make any fries better than Sysco's frozen (which every restaurant here where I live buys by the ton) - I think a lot less of him as a chef. Robyn