Underappreciated NYC Restaurants

[Sneakeater]

What restaurants do you think are very worthwhile but for some reason don't seem to get much play, either here or in the world? I don't mean places that aren't sufficiently popular -- I mean places that you don't think are sufficiently celebrated. For example, that don't automatically get included in the "recommended" lists of various kinds that periodically get posted here, while other places that are no better do.

My prime candidate used to be Picholine, but since its recent spiffing-up it's reassumed a position on everybody's radar.

Now, I think my prime candidate would be Bouley Upstairs. Given the quality for the price, it's hard for me to see why there isn't more constant excitement about this place (as there is for, say, The Bar Room at the Modern). Well, part of it is that you can't get in. But still. I think in some ways the price/quality ratio at Bouley Upstairs is so good that it makes it hard for other places to compete.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[R Washburn]

How about B. Cafe? It is my favorite restaurant at that price point, but I hardly ever see any posts about it. It is run by the same chef that used to own "B. Frites".

[BryanZ]

Aquavit.

[oakapple]

Now, I think my prime candidate would be Bouley Upstairs.

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I totally agree about the excellent quality/price ratio at Bouley Upstairs. However, it is a rather unpleasant space, and I am generally not keen on hanging out for a wait of unknown duration. For the same amount of money, I'd rather be more comfortable and know for certain that I'll have a table at a pre-arranged time.

Bryan mentioned Aquavit. I would suggest the Aquavit Cafe, which (like Bouley Upstairs) has an excellent quality/price ratio, but (unlike Bouley Upstairs) takes reservations.

Edited February 2, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[Sneakeater]

Now, I think my prime candidate would be Bouley Upstairs.

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I totally agree about the excellent quality/price ratio at Bouley Upstairs. However, it is a rather unpleasant space, and I am generally not keen on hanging out for a wait of unknown duration. For the same amount of money, I'd rather be more comfortable and know for certain that I'll have a table at a pre-arranged time.

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I agree with that completely (which is why I don't eat at Bouley Upstairs more frequently). But that doesn't stop the original Momofuku (to choose but one possible example) from getting a lot of attention.

To say nothing of DiFara.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[rich]

To say nothing of DiFara.

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That should lead the list of the most over appreciated (read over rated) places.

As far as under appreciated:

1. Devi

2. Aquavit

3. Craft

4. Annisa

5. Mesa Grill

[Nathan]

Esca, Esca, Esca, Esca.

I used to say Perry Street but it seems to be on the radar again.

[Sneakeater]

I was going to make the same comment about Perry Street.

[Sneakeater]

db Bistro Moderne

[oakapple]

3. Craft

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This surely stretches the definition of "under-appreciated." Craft is perennially tough to get into. I just checked on OpenTable, and the next available reservations are Sunday, Feb. 4 at 6:15 or 9:15 p.m. Wednesday, Feb. 7 at 8:30 p.m., or Sunday, Feb. 11 at 9:30 p.m. In other words, it is fully booked* for 7 of the next 10 days, and has only limited availability on the remaining three. If that does not suggest a highly appreciated restaurant, I don't know what does.

_______

* I do realize that no popular restaurant puts 100% of its available tables on OpenTable. Nevertheless, I think it's a reasonably good indication that Craft remains a tough ticket, as it has virtually always been since it opened.

[Sneakeater]

Just to be clear, as the thread initiator, I meant restaurants that may be popular, maybe even highly popular, but don't seem to get much play among foodies, even though they're toward the top of their class. (I obviously don't mean highly popular restaurants that aren't that great.) Either they've lost their buzz, or never had it. I'd say, as a rough criterion, places that don't (or no longer) often get mentioned in discusssions, or recommended in response to requests, on boards like this -- even though they are, in fact, highly recommendable.

I mean, as you said, you can't get into my first nomination, Bouley Upstairs. How much more "appreciated" could it be, if that were the definition?

I'm not saying whether Craft qualifies or not under that definition. (I'd say it's at best borderline -- I mean, it's hard to say that Craft is forgotten in these circles.) Just that the fact that it's hard to get a reservation isn't what at least I meant to be the controlling factor.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[Nathan]

i.e. Esca where it's never very hard to get in (one can always eat at the bar) but it might well be booked solid at pre-theater and prime times.

nevertheless, it is never mentioned here. and, imo, it is unquestionably one of the ten best restaurants in NY.

(I think its lack of notice simply comes down to being in the middle of nowhere)

Edited February 2, 2007 by Nathan (log)

[Sneakeater]

Again to be clear, part of the reason I initiated this thread is that -- as is often the case on boards of various kinds -- the same set of "board favorites" always seems to get mentioned whenever anyone asks anything, even though there are other good options out there. To take one example, Hearth is a fine restaurant, but for all the play it gets here you'd think it was uniquely excellent, which it just isn't.

So I thought it would be useful for us to remind ourselves of the very good places that tend to get excluded, for one reason or another. Mostly because people just don't think of them.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[Bill Miller]

The last time we were in NYC we discovered Becco's--great pasta and sauce--reasonable wine list--reasonable prices--great location.

[oakapple]

Just to be clear, as the thread initiator, I meant restaurants that may be popular, maybe even highly popular, but don't seem to get much play among foodies, even though they're toward the top of their class.  (I obviously don't mean highly popular restaurants that aren't that great.)  Either they've lost their buzz, or never had it.  I'd say, as a rough criterion, places that don't (or no longer) often get mentioned in discusssions, or recommended in response to requests, on boards like this -- even though they are, in fact, highly recommendable.

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I would suggest another definition, mainly because "what foodies are talking about" is rather amorphous. Remember, Eater slammed this forum earlier this week—partly because (in Eater's opinion) we were talking too much about Death & Co., and not enough about E.U. Eater's clearly a foodie too, but he thought we were talking about the wrong places.

I would define under-appreciated as:

— The restaurant has been around a while;

— It doesn't get a lot of notice any more (assuming it ever did);

— You can get in fairly easily, more-or-less whenever you want;

— It's very good in its class.

The first three criteria are reasonably objective, leaving "very good in its class" as the one subjective criterion.

So I would exclude Craft, as it fails the third test. Clearly all the people going to Craft got the idea from somewhere. I prefer not to make the judgment call whether any of Craft's patrons are foodies, which is something we can't readily ascertain.

Edited February 2, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[Sneakeater]

Would you exclude Bouley Upstairs, then? (Which is, obviously, EXACTLY the place I was thinking of when I started this thread?)

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd omit your third criterion.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

If you think "what foodies are talking about" is too amorphous, make it what this board is talking about.

[Eatmywords]

Gotham Bar and Grill......(last eg post over a yr ago)........still, one of the best in NY

[Sneakeater]

FWIW, that's exactly the kind of place I meant. (As is Esca.)

[oakapple]

Would you exclude Bouley Upstairs, then?  (Which is, obviously, EXACTLY the place I was thinking of when I started this thread?)

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My sense is that Bouley Upstairs is very highly appreciated, as the long waits attest.

If you think "what foodies are talking about" is too amorphous, make it what this board is talking about.

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By that measure, yes indeed you could make a strong argument for Bouley Upstairs. My feeling is that this discussion board is only a small percentage of the "foodies," not all of whom contribute to Internet discussion boards, or even to this online discussion board.

So while you would certainly be correct about Bouley Upstairs (or for that matter Craft) if your criterion is "what eGullet is talking about lately," I'm not sure what that proves.

[Sneakeater]

See Post #13 above.

[rich]

Hey, nobody here ever talks about my food/cooking - so I'm under appreciated.

[Nathan]

No one talks about Esca or Gotham Bar & Grill anywhere.

And they both meet both of your criteria sets (I think, how hard is it to get into GB&G?)

[Sneakeater]

Courtesy of Eater

Sumile

(How could I forget?)

Edited February 2, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[oakapple]

No one talks about Esca or Gotham Bar & Grill anywhere.

And they both meet both of your criteria sets (I think, how hard is it to get into GB&G?)

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One must be careful with statements containing the words "no one." All I have to do is find someone, anyone, and the statement is disproven. For example, just last year Alfred Portale won the James Beard Chef of the Year Award. Whatever you may think about the Beard Awards, it's still pretty remarkable for a place "no one" talks about.

I've never been to Esca, and nothing I've read has motivated me to change that anytime soon.

It is unquestionably one of the ten best restaurants in NY

"Unquestionably" is another of those words one should be careful about. Is Esca good? Perhaps. That it is "unquestionably" (i.e., beyond question) in the top ten strikes me as rather dubious.