Jamie Oliver

[Scott]

And I think the purpose of doing the 15 project on tv, other than to enhance his profile, is to get more people interested in it. 

isn't it the job of a media production company to find material to, erm, produce?

that was the purpose, and the sheer momentum of a media bandwagon determined to beatify the efforts of St Jamie brought the project new light and acclaim.

not a bad thing, he's not hurting anyone - other than the more money than sense - punter at the restaurant.

[ravelda]

I think an important point to think about is - even if all his hard work has been At the end of the day, he has clearly given up a lot of time, worked bloody hard and done well for himself and others - good on him I say!

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have you changed your tune ravelda or have I misinterpreted you previously?

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Depends how you interpreted me before - I think that fundamentally what Jamie has and continues to do is great. He is helping people and using his media profile to bring important issues to light. He clearly works bloody hard, and if he is benefitting from it good on him! If I work hard and get paid well, I can't normally sit down and think to myself "ah, good days work today, got paid a shed load, and I helped people" - because what I do is not giving chances to others - the only time that happens is when I do voluntary work (whic I do).

My gripe were purely questioning what made Ruth Watson so special (there are plenty of others out there with as much if not ore qulifications that her who would be better positioned to do what she is doing on the show, many of whom are on this forum).

[Gary Marshall]

If this is the case then why make a television programme about it? Surely you can carry out such charitable work without having the world know how philanthropic you are?  There is something very crass about how much one does for charity. In one episode I remember him guilt tripping his apprentices by stating that if the project went tits up his house would be on the line. This seems very laughable now when recent figures estimate him to be worth £56 million

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what's the phrase, harry enfield i think (smashy & nicey) 'i like to do my bit for charity but don't like to talk about it' as they correctly parodied, it's patently bollocks isn't it?

no-one gives without making a fuss about it if there's substantial sums involved (my modest cancer research direct debit is not exactly front page news) It's human nature.

As in all these things it's easy to be cynical when you haven't done it yourself or are in a position to do so, you might find 'crass' behaviour is suddenly more appealing when you do. Warren buffet has spent most of his life off the radar yet when he teams up with gates to give away a few billion it's front page news, he could have kept it quiet as he has most of his business dealings.

i'd take the £56m with a substantial pinch of maldon they have the habit of forecasting prospective earnings rather than what you can actually write a cheque for at a given moment,

i don't think he's a saint, but think he's probably done more than most would do given his financial position and for that he shouldn't be pilloried.

[RDB]

no-one gives without making a fuss about it if there's substantial sums involved (my modest cancer research direct debit is not exactly front page news) It's human nature.

I give without making a fuss. I do not go showing my friends etc, copies of my bank statements containing my charitable direct debits. Maybe I defy human nature This is the point many people through their work, giving time, giving money etc do it for the joy of helping others, pure and simple. They do not make TV programmes about it.

As in all these things it's easy to be cynical when you haven't done it yourself or are in a position to do so, you might find 'crass' behaviour is suddenly more appealing when you do.

I am not sure what you mean by this? If I was Jamie Oliver then I would not be cynical about myself? Or if I had his money I would not be cynical? If the former you a right. If the latter you are wrong.

i'd take the £56m with a substantial pinch of maldon they have the habit of forecasting prospective earnings rather than what you can actually write a cheque for at a given moment,

Yes you are probably right.

i don't think he's a saint, but think he's probably done more than most would do given his financial position and for that he shouldn't be pilloried.

Now this is where my confusion lies. What has he actually done? In regards to his current programme all he is doing is giving one person the chance to run a restaurant? A lot of banks do that? It's not really benefiting mankind as a whole. Maybe it is my naivity but what is the purpose of 15 to society, but to give 'disadvantaged' kids the chance to become chefs? I reiterate is it that hard to become a chef in the first place?

He may not have done more than most in 'his financial position', as most do not make TV programmes about then giving their money to the 'disadvantaged' (except Jeffery Archer et al).

You are right about pilloring though, I need to be careful or I could end up like poor Boris Johnson who had the audacity to criticise Jamie’s campaign as being ‘too much’ and ‘over the top’. Consequently there was a national backlash, newspapers were up in arms, mothers wept and Boris had to apologise . Even the Conservative party decided to rectify the matter by having a vote on whether ‘Jamie Oliver was a national hero’, with 77% in favour.

[fisherman]

no-one gives without making a fuss about it if there's substantial sums involved (my modest cancer research direct debit is not exactly front page news) It's human nature.

I give without making a fuss. I do not go showing my friends etc, copies of my bank statements containing my charitable direct debits.

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So why mention it now?

I appreciate you're hardly making a fuss, but you're certainly bringing to peoples attention and using the fact you never mention it to make yourself seem different to the rest of the world, but you're hardly defying human nature, rather exemplifying it.

[RDB]

no-one gives without making a fuss about it if there's substantial sums involved (my modest cancer research direct debit is not exactly front page news) It's human nature.

I give without making a fuss. I do not go showing my friends etc, copies of my bank statements containing my charitable direct debits.

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So why mention it now?

I appreciate you're hardly making a fuss, but you're certainly bringing to peoples attention and using the fact you never mention it to make yourself seem different to the rest of the world, but you're hardly defying human nature, rather exemplifying it.

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An example purely for the purpose of the debate, and remember examples are often hypothetical of course . I maybe should have used the term 'others' instead of 'I'. Friday afternoons eh

[ravelda]

RDB you are wrong - Jamie has given up a massive amount of his time, worked bloody hard, and deserves to be recognised for that.

And to say he has not done much other than help one person get a restaurant to run - that is so unbelievably untrue. Even if he has only done that one show, it does more than help one person - it gives others hope! Don;t forget that he has also done a lot with the four 15 Restaurants, has had numerous people who were previously un-employable and opportunity to learn, not only a trade, but self respect, has secured increased funding for school meals, and brought the issue very much to the public attention, and has educated a lot of people!

Now I think that is worthy of praise.

IMHO of course!

[algy]

RDB you are wrong - Jamie has given up a massive amount of his time, worked bloody hard, and deserves to be recognised for that.

And to say he has not done much other than help one person get a restaurant to run - that is so unbelievably untrue.  Even if he has only done that one show, it does more than help one person - it gives others hope!  Don;t forget that he has also done a lot with the four 15 Restaurants, has had numerous people who were previously un-employable and opportunity to learn, not only a trade, but self respect, has secured increased funding for school meals, and brought the issue very much to the public attention, and has educated a lot of people!

Now I think that is worthy of praise.

IMHO of course!

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praise be damned - beatification more like. Anyone know the Vatican's email address, so we can forward this on?

[ravelda]

didn't that already happen on Jamie's Italy? ;-)

[ravelda]

didn't that already happen on Jamie's Italy? ;-)

[RDB]

RDB you are wrong - Jamie has given up a massive amount of his time, worked bloody hard, and deserves to be recognised for that.

And to say he has not done much other than help one person get a restaurant to run - that is so unbelievably untrue.  Even if he has only done that one show, it does more than help one person - it gives others hope!  Don;t forget that he has also done a lot with the four 15 Restaurants, has had numerous people who were previously un-employable and opportunity to learn, not only a trade, but self respect, has secured increased funding for school meals, and brought the issue very much to the public attention, and has educated a lot of people!

Now I think that is worthy of praise.

IMHO of course!

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praise be damned - beatification more like. Anyone know the Vatican's email address, so we can forward this on?

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What hope does it give others? That one day a television crew will arrive with Jamie in toe with a vast amount of money to pay for their restaurant!!!! This maybe hope but of the false variety.

IMHO of course

[ravelda]

Hey - I play the lottery, what are you trying to say? :-)

[Gary Marshall]

the bold isn't designed to make an impact just after years  of time on various  boards i  still can't do multiple posts

no-one gives without making a fuss about it if there's substantial sums involved (my modest cancer research direct debit is not exactly front page news) It's human nature.

I give without making a fuss. I do not go showing my friends etc, copies of my bank statements containing my charitable direct debits. Maybe I defy human nature This is the point many people through their work, giving time, giving money etc do it for the joy of helping others, pure and simple. They do not make TV programmes about it.

it's the substantial sums part that's the key as i say your private contributions are of interest no no-one

As in all these things it's easy to be cynical when you haven't done it yourself or are in a position to do so, you might find 'crass' behaviour is suddenly more appealing when you do.

I am not sure what you mean by this? If I was Jamie Oliver then I would not be cynical about myself? Or if I had his money I would not be cynical? If the former you a right. If the latter you are wrong.

what i mean is if you were going to donate, say £2m you might change your mind that you would like a bit of recognition for it, i would but then i'm shallow like that

i'd take the £56m with a substantial pinch of maldon they have the habit of forecasting prospective earnings rather than what you can actually write a cheque for at a given moment,

Yes you are probably right.

i don't think he's a saint, but think he's probably done more than most would do given his financial position and for that he shouldn't be pilloried.

Now this is where my confusion lies. What has he actually done? In regards to his current programme all he is doing is giving one person the chance to run a restaurant? A lot of banks do that? It's not really benefiting mankind as a whole. Maybe it is my naivity but what is the purpose of 15 to society, but to give 'disadvantaged' kids the chance to become chefs? I reiterate is it that hard to become a chef in the first place?

errr, set up a charity, set up fifteen, set up fifteen in cornwall (no tv show so far, set up fifteen amsterdam ( i think, no tv again as far as i know), spent months on what looks like an ultimately fruitless (no pun) anti school dinners campaign and now the pub thing.

how hard is it to become a chef? i don't know but if you turned up at my kitchen door saying i'm an unqualified car thieving heroin addict can i have a job? you'd not get very far, you may just get a break at fifteen, and hopefully learn some skills not just being a microwave jockey

He may not have done more than most in 'his financial position', as most do not make TV programmes about then giving their money to the 'disadvantaged' (except Jeffery Archer et al).

You are right about pilloring though, I need to be careful or I could end up like poor Boris Johnson who had the audacity to criticise Jamie’s campaign as being ‘too much’ and ‘over the top’. Consequently there was a national backlash, newspapers were up in arms, mothers wept and Boris had to apologise . Even the Conservative party decided to rectify the matter by having a vote on whether ‘Jamie Oliver was a national hero’, with 77% in favour.

now if you're going to have a go at boris i'm really going to get started

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[Scott]

no-one gives without making a fuss about it if there's substantial sums involved (my modest cancer research direct debit is not exactly front page news) It's human nature.

I give without making a fuss. I do not go showing my friends etc, copies of my bank statements containing my charitable direct debits.

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So why mention it now?

I appreciate you're hardly making a fuss, but you're certainly bringing to peoples attention and using the fact you never mention it to make yourself seem different to the rest of the world, but you're hardly defying human nature, rather exemplifying it.

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I didn't read it like that at all

[fisherman]

no-one gives without making a fuss about it if there's substantial sums involved (my modest cancer research direct debit is not exactly front page news) It's human nature.

I give without making a fuss. I do not go showing my friends etc, copies of my bank statements containing my charitable direct debits.

←

So why mention it now?

I appreciate you're hardly making a fuss, but you're certainly bringing to peoples attention and using the fact you never mention it to make yourself seem different to the rest of the world, but you're hardly defying human nature, rather exemplifying it.

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An example purely for the purpose of the debate, and remember examples are often hypothetical of course . I maybe should have used the term 'others' instead of 'I'. Friday afternoons eh

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Of course examples are hypothetical, and don't get me wrong, if I wasn't such a mean, miserable bastard I'd casually slip in here that I regularly donate to my local sanctuary for terminally uncharitable forum users, but I of course don't like to talk about it.

[RDB]

no-one gives without making a fuss about it if there's substantial sums involved (my modest cancer research direct debit is not exactly front page news) It's human nature.

I give without making a fuss. I do not go showing my friends etc, copies of my bank statements containing my charitable direct debits.

←

So why mention it now?

I appreciate you're hardly making a fuss, but you're certainly bringing to peoples attention and using the fact you never mention it to make yourself seem different to the rest of the world, but you're hardly defying human nature, rather exemplifying it.

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An example purely for the purpose of the debate, and remember examples are often hypothetical of course . I maybe should have used the term 'others' instead of 'I'. Friday afternoons eh

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Of course examples are hypothetical, and don't get me wrong, if I wasn't such a mean, miserable bastard I'd casually slip in here that I regularly donate to my local sanctuary for terminally uncharitable forum users, but I of course don't like to talk about it.

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Of course you don't, you have bigger epistemological fish to fry

[beandork]

[pointed sarcasm]

I'm going to open a restaurant - with tv show - where I beat up underprivileged kids and use their bones to make stock, and use the profits to buy bentleys

You will all love me and rain plaudits upon me

[/pointed sarcasm]

[Gavin Convery]

Hey, well I hope he does well with this new venture and makes a great success of it.

Err it's just up the road from me but don't want you to think that influences my views... ;-)

[Tim Hayward]

[pointed sarcasm]

I'm going to open a restaurant - with tv show - where I beat up underprivileged kids and use their bones to make stock, and use the profits to buy bentleys

You will all love me and rain plaudits upon me

[/pointed sarcasm]

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I love this proposal.... it's so modest.

[Matthew Grant]

Did anyone else realise who was going to "win" within a few minutes of the show starting? It was blatantly obvious to me once they focused on Tim visiting with his family and Jamie sending him to work at his Father's. Anybody else notice how "underpriveleged" Tim used to work as a Carpet fitter?

Yet more of the subtitles as well Grrrrr.........

I'm pretty sure that Geezer Dennis mentioned that he had "come back from Australia" for the chance to run a restaurant or did I misunderstand? It was obvious from the first show that he wasn't going to win as soon as he said that he was going to get rid of the regulars, install young bar staf and have cool music. How misguided can you be?

As for Taz she owld have seemed to have the right stuff except she was going to sell Thai food, as they said, its been done all over London, probably the last thing you need in a rural (ish) pub. From the channel 4 website:

Thai-born Tax, 26, brings both glamour and drama to the kitchen. 'I worked as a head-hunter in the City and earned a lot of money but I hated it,' she says.

'Food was a passion and when I heard about Fifteen that's just what I wanted to do. In the kitchen I am so ambitious I just block everything out. I can end up screaming and shouting.'

After Taz graduated with a distinction in 2004, she travelled to Italy and has since worked at Bank in London and then at Market, the famous Jean Georges restaurant in Paris. She is currently working as a management trainee at Soho House club in London.

I'm still trying to work out how Taz qualified for a place at Fifteen? From the Fifteen website:

The purpose of Fifteen is to inspire disadvantaged young people to believe that they can create for themselves a career in the restaurant business. We have had 37 young people graduate and many of them are now working full time in some of the world's best restaurants.

Edited February 8, 2007 by Matthew Grant (log)

[Scott]

I'm still trying to work out a difference between the unsung, 20 year old Hoxton Apprentice and its' bastardised for TV ripoff cousin.

[Mrs Woman]

20-year old? It opened in 2004? http://www.hoxtonapprentice.com/about.html Wasn't this around the same time as Fifteen?

[Scott]

20-year old? It opened in 2004? http://www.hoxtonapprentice.com/about.html Wasn't this around the same time as Fifteen?

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hmmm... not sure that's right. or at least, I am quite sure the chap behind it has been something like this for 20 years.

will enquire.

[Catriona]

Was much amused after the discussion here to see that not only the Irish are subtitled.

(Subtitle: Was much amused after the discussion here to see that not only the Irish are subtitled.)

[nikkib]

Was much amused after the discussion here to see that not only the Irish are subtitled.

(Subtitle: Was much amused after the discussion here to see that not only the Irish are subtitled.)

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To be sure to be sure