Pastry Ganache - Fillings and Glazes

[Wendy DeBord]

Lots of things to comment on.....First I agree, buttercream, jam and ganche is alot of sweetness in one cake- verging on gross.

You had beginners luck pouring ganche over buttercream because they typical do not adhear to each other. Your "luck" was that you hit the temp.s just right. But in any typical situation you'd watch your ganche slide right off the buttercream, it also typically won't work nicely over a jam coating either. So the answer I'll give you is, do NOT try to repeat this on a wedding cake thats going to sit at room temp. for a couple hours. You will run into problems.

If you want a ganche finish do your undercoating with ganche only. Use it slightly cool to fill in any areas not perfectly smooth. Then you can pour your liquid ganche over the cake and it will adhear and look smooth.

As for the jam in this recipe-they add sugar to it......that's not necessary or wanted-it's tooooooo sweet. If you want this glaze you should use it in between your layers not under your poured ganche finish. Same with the butter cream-use it between your layers not on the exterior.

Flavor wise.....I might mix the jam into my butter cream or use a rasp. emulsion or puree to flavor the butter cream and use it very thinnly between torted layers. Keep the sweetness of the fruit down by choosing a sugarless jam or puree. That should compliment the pound cake and ganche instead of competeing with it. HTH?

[Amuse Bouche]

Thanks for the suggestions. I was thinking the buttercream would melt and the ganache would slide off.

A question -- my usual ganache recipe is just chocolate and cream. Can I add a little bit of butter to this to make it more workable for the undercoat (allowing me to get it really smooth on my turntable) but still use the chocolate and cream as the poured overcoat?

[Wendy DeBord]

Oh yeah, butter in ganche is great. BUT one word of caution....I've come across one brand of chocolate that doesn't behave well with butter in the ganche...I'm drawing a blank on it's name (it's very past my bed time).

Really your adding butter for taste not enough really for texture. If you get your ganche to the right temp. that's what makes it handle easily.

This won't be hard, I think you'll be please with the results.

[NeroW]

I have glazed 10" cakes and the like with jam (between the layers) and then ganache, but Sinclair is right, this would be wild-sweet for a wedding cake.

[Amuse Bouche]

I'm thinking of doing a white cake instead of a pound cake, with chambord syrup brushed on (the wedding "theme" is pink and brown), filled with a raspberry puree buttercream, and then frosted and glazed with ganache. I think the problem with my original recipe was too much richness, not sweetness.

My own wedding cake was a chocolate almond cake with orange marmalade filling, grand marnier buttercream, and almond fondant. It was SOOO good. And I brushed the layers with grand marnier syrup, too.

[nightscotsman]

When you said "Chambord", I instantly got the image of a slice of cake that had turned gray from the purple colored syrup . I HIGHLY recommend using a clear framboise (raspberry eau de vie) in the soaking syrup if you plan on going with the white cake. Also, make sure the cake recipe you choose is designed to stand up to the soaking (like a genoise) - a regular American-style butter or white cake is too moist (and too sweet) and may turn pasty if soaked.

[Ganache]

I almost always coat my cakes with a layer of buttercream to make cake perfectly shaped & even it out. Freeze cake & pour on ganache. It sets up really nice. If I don't have any buttercream I will use whipped cream & cocoa & some sugar or just sugar & vanilla. Otherwise the cake is uneven & sides are not smooth.

[Wendy DeBord]

Amuse-definately take Neils advice, he's dead on right!!!!

Ganche, perhaps you've been lucky, but eventually your luck will run out. I don't understand how you were able to pour ganche over whipped cream-something is off there.

The way to get your sides and tops smooth and ready to pour ganche over it, is to base coat your cake with ganche just like you would have with your butter cream. Use cooled ganche thats the consistancy of butter cream-apply with a spatula. Do not use hot ganche to base coat. HTH

[Amuse Bouche]

Well, I may just skip the syrup part. I was hoping to get some streaks of pink, since the bride's colors are pink and brown. I have a wonderful cookbook for wedding cakes that I've made several recipes from, including my own cake, and I usually take the advice from that on whether syrup is useful or necessary.

[Ganache]

[COLOR=purple]I have been making my cakes like this for years. I do it just like I said. Crumb coat cake w/buttercream or whipped cream,sugar,cocoa, when I don't need buttercream to decorate & don't want to make it. Freeze. Then coat once again. Freeze. Pour hot cream over chocolate. When melty, wisk smooth, add liquor or whatever. Move cake to rack & pour. Immediatly smooth top w/lge spatula so it evenly slides down the sides. The warm ganache freezes as it hits the cake & it always comes out smooth & beautiful. You may have to pour some additional areas on the sides sometimes. If there are some drips smooth alittle with a warm spatula. I make mostly chocolate covered cakes & always do it this way. Yum-Yum

[KarenS]

I glaze over buttercream everyday. I really have never used ganache. I use a 3# bittersweet choc,2# butter, 1c corn syrup, 1/2c cognac (or another liquor). I don't like the gloss of ganache. I glaze over buttercream for a nice smooth finish. When your cake is chilled and ready -it is pretty easy to do.

[skyflyer3]

I'm currently trying to make a batch of chocolate ganache for a cake, and for some reason it turned into an oily, gooey mess in my double boiler. I've only got two cups of cream and about a pound of Callebaut and El Rey bittersweet in there. I don't know how this has happened - I've always heated the cream, added the chopped up chocolate, stirred and it always came out fine. Now it looks curdled and very oily. Is there anything that can be done? thank you....

[amyd]

The same thing happened to me the other day and there was no way to repair it. I took my eyes off of it for a second and think the cream cooked a touch too much. I kept a much closer eye on a second batch I made that day and there was no problem.

[KarenS]

It sounds like your cream was too hot. Bring the cream to a boil and take off the heat for around 5 minutes. Pout the cream over the chopped chocolate in a large bowl and whisk together. Broken ganache does not fix too well- I'd make brownies with it (or something).

[JustKay]

I use a lot of ganache on my cakes.

I use the recipe by Nick Malgieri successfully everytime using only cream and chocolate.

I never boil my cream - just heat it up until near boiling (in the microwave) and then pour it on to of the chopped chocolate (in a bowl sitting on the countertop - not in double boiler) and let sit for a few minutes before stirring.

ganache

I think you have way too much cream and heat too. You don't need to heat the chocolate up - the heated cream will melt the chopped chocolates just fine.

[FistFullaRoux]

My guess is as above. The cream was too hot.

But did you check (taste) the chocolate before melting it in? When chocolate is past it's prime, the butterfat/cocoa butter will start seperating from the solids. Re-melting will not fix that.

[McDuff]

You basically have a broken emulsion of almost equal parts of chocolate and cream. Maybe the fat to liquid thing is out of whack. I'd would heat up about another cup of cream and add it bit by bit, whisking seriously as I did that.

[skyflyer3]

Thanks so much for the replies. I ended up throwing it in the fridge, and whisking madly every hour. Eventually it came together, but not as the glossy loveliness that it usually is. I'm thinking it was a combination of suggestions here - too much and too hot cream, and the chocolate was a touch past prime (the El Rey was new, but the Callebaut was not). The nice thing was that I still managed to use it as frosting when it got super thick - I mixed it up with a little diplomat cream that I was using as filling, and it turned into a beautiful creamy mocha color that covered the cake quite nicely. Paired with King Arthur's Rich White Cake layers, it was really delicious. Thanks again for the assistance!

[Wendy DeBord]

I know the cream was not too hot because I always bring my cream up to a boil then dump my chocolate into it (as taught by Steve Klc). Then I stir to create my emulsion. Starting with boiling hot cream doesn't effect the emulsion, although most chefs will advice you to give it a minute or two to cool down before using.

I have to add that it was only with-in that last two years that I finally had this happen to me too. In the past, it was like I couldn't comprehend what people were talking about ' broken ganches'........I couldn't get mine to fail no matter what method I tryed.

THEN I switched chocolates and BAM, that will do it! I don't know enough of the science to give you a clear understanding why, perhaps Steve or Chefette will chime in and explain this? BUT I can not use Callebaut chocolate using tried and true ganche recipes and get a good emulsion. I've used a burwhip and that works to get a good emulsion, but when you let the ganche sit for anytime it's seperates again. So far, Callebaut brand is the only brand that I've run into that reacts this way.

[bkeith]

THEN I switched chocolates and BAM, that will do it! I don't know enough of the science to give you a clear understanding why, perhaps Steve or Chefette will chime in and explain this? BUT I can not use Callebaut chocolate using tried and true ganche recipes and get a good emulsion. I've used a burwhip and that works to get a good emulsion, but when you let the ganche sit for anytime it's seperates again. So far, Callebaut brand is the only brand that I've run into that reacts this way.

Interesting, I use Callebaut all the time, and I've never had a ganache break (now that I've said that, it'll happen today I'm sure).

Wait -- edit that a bit: The only time I've ever had a broken ganache is on reheating. From what I can tell, this is fairly typical. when reheating leftover ganache, it'll typically break. The solution is exactly backwards from what you'd think. Heat a small amount of cream to boiling (a couple tablespoons will be enough). Gradually add a bit of reheated (broken) ganache at a time to the hot cream and whisk to rebuild the emulsion. Continue whisking broken ganache into the newly formed emulsion until it's all in. You don't need a lot of cream -- just get the emulsion started, and the rest will follow.

[kthull]

I'm only a home baker and I got myself a nice 11lb block of Callebaut 70% dark and it was the most temperamental chocolate I ever used. It always broke. I could only use it if I added in other chocolate. And believe me, 11lbs of chocolate (diluted at that) doesn't go all that quickly in one's home. I had plenty broken ganaches with that and will never go back to Callebaut as a result of it. And I know what some of you are thinking...age. But it was bad from the get go, so maybe it was bad from the start, but it wasn't a factor of getting worse over the months. And I store my chocolate very well.

Since changing chocolates, no problems.

[loompa]

I'm sure many of you know that all chocolate is not the same. All Callebaut is not the same either. A 70% dark Callebaut has quite a high cocoa butter ratio and requires special handling (tempering) or it will "break". It is better, I have found, to use semi-sweet chocolate (60% or lower) for a foolproof Ganache. You can boil or not boil the cream. It never fails. I have had nothing but trouble with bitter sweet or liquer (sp?) chocolate in Ganache. If you try to reheat Ganache and get it too hot, it will become grainy and break as well.

[Wendy DeBord]

Welcome to eg Loompa!

Unforunately I didn't note which percentage I was working with, your right that makes a difference. Callebaut is a dense/vicosity brand of chocolate compared to many others. I don't like it for dipping chocolates or chocolate mousse.......its just too thick. I'm sure I could thin it down alittle but I'd rather just buy a ready to go brand.

[Steve Klc]

Good point loompa, as we've said time and time again on eG P&B chocolates aren't the same, neither are heavy creams with different fat percentages and neither are the ganache recipes you use them in with different amounts of added butter or glucose. All these water and fat percentages have to be adjusted overall to work with a specific chocolate formulation if you want to approach your ganache-making a little more scientifically and technically and get consistently superior results. I think it becomes an individual choice--more or less important depending on what your standards are and what your intended use is. (I disagree somewhat with my esteemed colleague Nick Malgieri on this ganache issue--Nick in his books and classes has generally advocated a more straightforward approach to ganache-making that eschews any complication--for instance the complicated role fat, water, dry matter percentage and these other ingredients (like butter, glucose, trimolene, etc.) play in a professional ganache, it doesn't take into consideration the now much greater variety of high quality chocolates and couvertures on the market nor the special expertise gleaned from chocolatiers and scientists over the years. We're both on the board of advisors for the NY Chocolate Show and if nothing else this demonstrates there isn't ever only one recommended way of doing things--and I tend toward the more scientific approach, obviously.)

Any readily melting (as opposed to purposely thick) chocolate couverture with a higher cocoa butter percentage is going to seem trickier, finickier, to work with when it comes to ganache precisely because of its cocoa butter and its fragile fluidity--but these are usually the more flavorful, more interesting chocolates which transfer positively into the final product. The very thick dry chocolates that aren't high in cocoa butter usually don't come from flavorful beans and/or aren't conched and processed to the extent higher end couvertures are DO initially appear to produce consistent ganaches--i.e. "they don't break" if mishandled--but you're usually not getting as special and as unctuous an end result when you start which such mediocre product.

To add to the fun--try making a ganache with your favorite eating couverture without heating the cream at all, as we've been doing for a few years now--pour warm melted chocolate into your bowl of room temperature cream, hand whisking slowly in the center as you do forming the emulsion the same way as you would, just reversed. Let set and compare with the same proportions done traditionally (pouring just off the boil cream, slowly, into your bowl of pistoles or chopped chocolate, again whisking slowly from the center out)--which produced a more fool-proof emulsion, a shinier gloss and a smoother ganache after crystallization?

Ask yourself, if the cream is pasteurized and homogenized, is there any reason why you have to boil it? Is there a performance difference? Report your findings. Experiment with cold-infusing your cream--does that work as well as traditionally pre-heating and steeping your cream to infuse?

One adjustment to the traditional method which we use sometimes when we're pouring cream onto chopped chocolate--in addition to adding it slowly, or in two parts--is to add it all at once and then let it sit, don't touch it, for a few minutes, then when it has cooled a bit start whisking, stirring slowly from the center out. So I'm with kew and Karen on these little trucs being helpful.

[Malawry]

The last method Steve mentioned--letting the cream sit for a few minutes before whisking--is what I was taught as a culinary student (culinary, not pastry). I've tried it with cheaper chocolates, including chunks of Ghirardelli from Trader Joe's, and I've tried it with higher-end chocolates. Never had a problem as long as I was careful about stirring it properly. I taught some high school kids how to do it in one of my classes this summer and it worked for them too...we let the ganache sit overnight and used it to make simple truffles the next day.