Bruni and Beyond: NYC Reviewing (2007)

[Fat Guy]

You know, it might be interesting to do an improved version of Eater's Bruni Betting feature. Rather than guess how many start Bruni will give to a restaurant, we could do more of a blind tasting. In other words, strip the review of its star rating, send it to a few people, and have them try to intuit how many stars the restaurant actually got.

[docsconz]

You know, it might be interesting to do an improved version of Eater's Bruni Betting feature. Rather than guess how many start Bruni will give to a restaurant, we could do more of a blind tasting. In other words, strip the review of its star rating, send it to a few people, and have them try to intuit how many stars the restaurant actually got.

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That's a great idea, but how would one assure that the parties haven't already read the review?

[Fat Guy]

Possible methods of enforcement range from honor system to death penalty.

[Megan Blocker]

Possible methods of enforcement range from honor system to death penalty.

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Ooooh, I volunteer!

[rich]

You know, it might be interesting to do an improved version of Eater's Bruni Betting feature. Rather than guess how many start Bruni will give to a restaurant, we could do more of a blind tasting. In other words, strip the review of its star rating, send it to a few people, and have them try to intuit how many stars the restaurant actually got.

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Could we have pari-mutuel (spelled correctly) wagering?

[oakapple]

You know, it might be interesting to do an improved version of Eater's Bruni Betting feature. Rather than guess how many start Bruni will give to a restaurant, we could do more of a blind tasting. In other words, strip the review of its star rating, send it to a few people, and have them try to intuit how many stars the restaurant actually got.

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Could we have pari-mutuel (spelled correctly) wagering?

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On my blog, I have a recurring weekly feature where I place an imaginary $1 bet according to Eater's odds, and keep track of who's right.

In the eight weeks that I've been doing it publicly, I've gone 7-1, amassing a war chest of $24.67. Eater has gone 6-2, amassing $17.00.

The lone blemish on my record was Robert's Steakhouse (I took the 2-star odds; Bruni awarded one). The two blemishes on Eater's record were Sfoglia and The Four Seasons (he bet on one and three stars respectively; Bruni awarded two in each case).

[Eatmywords]

I thought the EU review was very good and accurate. The hook, the restaurant's operating woes, was appropriate and not dragged out allowing for a more informative menu discussion and overall experience. Nice going

[oakapple]

I thought the EU review was very good and accurate.  The hook, the restaurant's operating woes, was appropriate and not dragged out allowing for a more informative menu discussion and overall experience.  Nice going

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The "hook" was slightly overdone, especially the bit at the end about the three grim-looking police officers walking in. But overall, not a bad performance by Mr. Bruni.

[JohnL]

I disagree.

Detailing the restaurant's woes is of no consequence to where it is now. I would guess that most restaurants in New York have a "history" of difficulties in opening.

That's why reviewers usually give a place a chance to get settled in before writing a review.

What exactly is the point here? To add some color? Why?

I understand the need for some perspective in reviewing places like Le Cirque or The Four seasons but what does all this information bring to the review of a "neighborhood" place?

[Sneakeater]

This particular place has actually gained fairly significant reknown for its various problems. To ignore them would seem ignorant.

[Nathan]

yup.

to add to that...I've known an understandable tendency on the part of some (who I think are usually connected to the restaurant industry in some capacity)...to find it offensive when Bruni or another critic notes something that could hurt a restaurant...even though it's not directly related to food or service. Like I said, that's understandable.

But, the NY Times critic is not some sort of ombudsman for the industry. To the extent that he/she represents anyone, it's the restaurant consumer.

besides, I'm not so sure that being described as "the little restaurant that could" is such a negative for E.U.

[Eatmywords]

I disagree.

Detailing  the restaurant's woes is of no consequence to where it is now. I would guess that most restaurants in New York have a "history" of difficulties in opening.

That's why reviewers usually give a place a chance to get settled in before writing a review.

What exactly is the point here? To add some color? Why?

I understand the need for some perspective in reviewing places like Le Cirque or The Four seasons but what does all this information bring to the review of a "neighborhood" place?

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I don't really mind if every review has a hook as long as it doesn't hinder a full review which I feel he's provided (in this case).

Anyway, few have dealt with as many obstacles in such short time. They've persevered. It's worth noting and it relates directly to garnering a liquor license in the E.Vlg which is a hot topic these days.

[JohnL]

This particular place has actually gained fairly significant reknown for its various problems.  To ignore them would seem ignorant.

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I think a mention is fine. Bruni offers a detailed chronological history.

Stating "after a rocky start..." or "after a period of turmoil..."and moving on to where the place is today is plenty sufficient.

The ending with the ominous policemen entering is a bit much. This reads like a magazine article not a restaurant review.

Edited April 11, 2007 by JohnL (log)

[Sneakeater]

Agree.

The problem with Bruni is that by now, some of us are grateful when it's only a bit too much, as opposed to WAY over the top.

[oakapple]

This particular place has actually gained fairly significant reknown for its various problems.  To ignore them would seem ignorant.

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I think a mention is fine. Bruni offers a detailed chronological history.

Stating "after a rocky start..." or "after a period of turmoil..."and moving on to where the place is today is plenty sufficient.

The ending with the ominous policemen entering is a bit much. This reads like a magazine article not a restaurant review.

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I thought all the background at the beginning of the article was about at the right level of detail. I actually counted it out, and he managed to start talking about the food by the 6th paragraph. That's pretty good for him. For Rosanjin two weeks ago, he didn't get to the food till the 15th paragraph.

I entirely agree that the bit about the ominous policemen was over-the-top. It had nothing to do with the restaurant. I mean, the same policemen could have shown up anywhere.

[Fat Guy]

To reiterate, since the overwhelming majority of Frank Bruni's readers (it could easily be 99%) will never eat at the restaurants in question, an overly narrow focus on consumer-oriented dish-by-dish analysis would not necessarily hold the interest of that readership.

[rich]

So are we going to start eGullet Downs? When's the first race? Who's handling the book? What's the betting limit. Can you bet parlays, round robins, "if" bets? What are the rules? Any vig on the bets?

Food betting - this could be the wave of the future.

Edited April 12, 2007 by rich (log)

[Nathan]

guys, it was a joke (the line about the policemen).

there's nothing wrong with it. when we parse at that level of detail no wonder eater makes light of us. let's debate how many bluefoot chickens can dance on the tip of a pin shall we?

[chetlemon]

So are we going to start eGullet Downs? When's the first race? Who's handling the book? What's the betting limit. Can you bet parlays, round robins, "if" bets? What are the rules? Any vig on the bets?

Food betting - this could be the wave of the future.

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If eater.com sets the lines, then count me in.

On the Bruni betting, they typically use huge negative vig, so that you can lock in 50%+ profit.

[oakapple]

On the Bruni betting, they typically use huge negative vig, so that you can lock in 50%+ profit. 

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I don't know what you mean by negative vig, but I agree there is a virtually guaranteed (albeit imaginary) profit.

The fact is, Bruni is far more predictable than horse racing. Eater isn't always right, but he's right far more often than not. If you simply bet on the Eater favorite every time, you will make money.

Another way of putting it is that, although Eater is very good at identifying the most probable outcome, his odds aren't realistic. If an actual casino offered those odds, the house would go bankrupt.

As a game, the only way this would make sense is if a group of people make their predictions every week, and then someone tracks wins and losses over time. While any half-knowledgeable person should be able to rack up a winning record, some people will be better than others at predicting when Bruni will do the unexpected.

Edited April 12, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[Nathan]

so what is waiting for a review right now?

Esca tomorrow. Morandi shortly. I imagine that Bruni will also do his first self-re-review shortly -- Gilt.

[rich]

WD-50, Sapori d'Ischia, Park Side, Gramercy (new chef), Aquavit, Daniel, Gotham, Roberto's, S'agapo, Bolo, Trattoria L'incontro....

Edited April 17, 2007 by rich (log)

[oakapple]

so what is waiting for a review right now?

Esca tomorrow.  Morandi shortly.  I imagine that Bruni will also do his first self-re-review shortly -- Gilt.

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You left out Anthos. Besides that, there are new restaurants at the one-star level opening all the time, and plenty that opened previously that the Times never reviewed. It all depends what strikes his fancy.

I will be quite surprised to see a Gilt re-review anytime soon. He would need to be persuaded that it deserved three stars, and in Bruni's tenure that seldom happens for this type of restaurant. Oh, and it wouldn't be his first self-re-review; that was Eleven Madison Park.

I agree with Rich that Gramercy Tavern is due for a re-review. No other re-review targets are obvious, but as tomorrow's Esca re-review shows, you can never predict where Bruni is setting his sights.

Edited April 17, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[Nathan]

Lee appears to be getting favorable reviews...I think that's enough to provoke a re-review...as with EMP.

[rich]

Do you know what place really DESERVES a review - Henry's End. It's been around for more than 30 years and I've been going for almost as long. It's full every night and serves quality food at affordable prices. It has a magnificent wine list and prices to match.

A place that successful for that long deserves some praise and recognition. Granted it would probably gather one star in the world of the NY Times, but it would a star worth latching unto.

And why not give something back to a place that's been serving the people well for three plus decades???

Edited April 17, 2007 by rich (log)