Buying wine online and shipping to IN

[david coonce]

Hey y'all

Does anyone know a good and creative way around the draconian laws that disallow wine sales to Indiana? I have ordered wine by the case from Vintners, and the smaller ones are able to obtain some sort of direct shipping permit, but when I try to order from, say, Sam's in Chicago or the bigger places based in New York, they can't ship to us.

If anyone has any suggestions, let me know.

David

[gfron1]

have you tried Kahn's in Carmel and Indy. Great selection and they really know their products. Since its in-state you might be fine.

[joiei]

Sherry Lehmans has shipped to me and I live in liquor law hell. Also I have made friends with well equiped wine shops in several surrounding states and occasionally go out of town and drive it back across the state line. Is that bootlegging?

[gfron1]

I thought you might find this interesting. Its the Supreme Court decision in 2005 on direct shipping of wine.

[bbqboy]

Hi David, this is a local (Southern Oregon) Wine Club that serves as a clearinghouse for NW wines.

http://www.pacificwineclub.com/

According to this:

http://www.pacificwineclub.com/legal-notice.htm

Indiana will allow 3rd party sales, if you know someone who holds a liquor license.

"States that do not permit shipping to your home will allow PWC to ship to a licensed consignee such as a restaurant, bar, or bottle shop that holds a license to sell or serve wine. If you want to do this, simply fax or mail us a copy of the establishment’s Wine (Beer or Liquor) license with the shipping address noted. There is no additional bottle or sales tax or import fee to the consignee as the sale is to you."

....Or you can use an address in Illinois.

Joiei, every year (especially in the holiday season) Federal Agents watch all the liquor stores near State Line in KC, and bust numerous folks for transporting Liquor accross State Lines.

(Our Next Door Neighbor got popped one Christmas!) I think you're safe if not at a "watch spot", but technically it's a crime.

[david coonce]

Thanks all for your help. I actually work for places that have liquor permits (I'm a chef) so I may try that route.

Thanks again,

David

[RyuShihan]

I order some wines from on-line wine auctions, not sure if that is affected by any laws in Indy or if it might be considered something else...Worth looking into at least.

[david coonce]

Well,

did a little research...Sam's in Chicago won't ship to anyone who has a liquor license...I think probably some bars/liquor stores buy from other stores because in many cases it's cheaper to do that than buy wholesale from distributors. So that's out. Sherry-Lehmann is just too expensive for me. They have an amazing selection, though. At this point I think I'm just going to have to start lobbying my local stores to carry the wines I really like. Crazy laws.

[Brad Ballinger]

David,

There's a couple of major issues at play here.

The first involves direct shipment of wine to consumers. This usually means direct shipment from a winery, not from a wine retailer. According to the Wine Institute, in March of this year, Governor Daniels signed legislation allowing direct-to-consumer shipment of wine. I'm pretty sure, though, that this applies to wineries only, but you'll want to check into it. The limits on shipments from the consumer end are that no consumer can receive more than 24 cases of wine annually AND the wine must be purchased on site (don't know how that gets enforced, though). The limits on shipments from the producer end is that no winery may ship more than 3000 cases of wine into Indiana annually. Although the legislation has passed, the Indiana legistlature has not yet determined what all the rules will be. Therefore, it may be a while yet before the legislation goes into effect.

Currently, neither FedEx nor UPS will transport wine to consumers in Indiana. That may change, however, once the legislation becomes active.

However, it appears to me that you are more interested in purchasing wine from retailers out of state than from wineries out of state. If you are looking for certain wines from use in the restaurants in which you work, work through your wholesalers. If you want the wines for personal consumption, and want them because they are not available in Indiana, you have some options:

1. Work through a local reatiler to get the wine through one of the wholesalers they work with. If the wine is a domestic wine, find out from the winery who they use for wholesalers. If there is not wholesaler in Indiana who lists the wine in their portfolio, they may try to get it for the retailer (and ultimately you), if they can sell enough of it, and if it is not completely allocated to other wholesalers. If the wine is imported, find out who the importer is. Then find out what wholesaler in Indiana reps that importer, and continue as above.

2. Find an out-of-state retailer who doesn't give a damn and will ship to Indiana anyway. Sam's will not because they risk paying hefty fines.

3. Ship it to yourself. If you are at Sam's in Chicago, there is a Mail Boxes, Etc. store one strip mall over. Sam's will sell you a styrofoam shippper, and you can ship the wine to yourself. Heck, a Sam's employee will even help you carry the wine over there. But since you will likely have driven to Chicago, you might as well be your own courier.

4. Rent a locker in Chicago. There are some consumer wine storage facilitiies in Chiacgo that will receive wine for you and store it in a locker you rent from them. Whenever you next are in Chicago, take what you want out of the locker. Rental fees are usually based on the size of the locker and not the number of bottles or cases.

5. Learn to like the wines you can get from your retailers. It's just wine.

[joiei]

1.  Work through a local reatiler to get the wine through one of the wholesalers they work with.  If the wine is a domestic wine, find out from the winery who they use for wholesalers.  If there is not wholesaler in Indiana who lists the wine in their portfolio, they may try to get it for the retailer (and ultimately you), if they can sell enough of it, and if it is not completely allocated to other whiolesalers.  If the wine is imported, find out who the importer is.  Then find out what wholesaler in Indiana reps that importer, and continue as above.

←

I have tried to work this angle here in Oklahoma and the biggest problem I come across is the allotment process precludes this state from receiving many winerys. Texas gets some and Missouri gets some but we get passed over because there is none left when they get to us. For example, Turley.

5. Learn to like the wines you can get from your retailers. It's just wine.

Most of the wine buying I do is for my employers and I am trying to satisfy their wants. Otherwise I would have no problem with this suggestion. And it is an excellent one.

[Brad Ballinger]

I have tried to work this angle here in Oklahoma and the biggest problem I come across is the allotment process precludes this state from receiving many winerys.  Texas gets some and Missouri gets some but we get passed over because there is none left when they get to us.   For example, Turley. 

←

Yeah, those highly allocated wines are always tough to come by. And then when the wholesaler gets their allocation, you have retailers and restaurants clamoring for whatever they can get. Then the restaurant puts it on the reserve list that customers have to ask for, and the retailer never puts it on the shelf but privately calls the "good customers." So then we're once again stuck with number 5. And so it goes.

[joiei]

I have tried to work this angle here in Oklahoma and the biggest problem I come across is the allotment process precludes this state from receiving many winerys.  Texas gets some and Missouri gets some but we get passed over because there is none left when they get to us.   For example, Turley. 

←

Yeah, those highly allocated wines are always tough to come by. And then when the wholesaler gets their allocation, you have retailers and restaurants clamoring for whatever they can get. Then the restaurant puts it on the reserve list that customers have to ask for, and the retailer never puts it on the shelf but privately calls the "good customers." So then we're once again stuck with number 5. And so it goes.

←

how true. I think I will crack open a bottle of Il Bastardo sangeovaise that I have to celebrate your good advice. I don't know the wine, but I love the artist who did the label, Fernando Botero. Isn't is weird how labels sell wine today instead of what is in the bottle.

[Brad Ballinger]

I think I will crack open a bottle of Il Bastardo sangeovaise that I have to celebrate your good advice.  I don't know the wine, but I love the artist who did the label, Fernando Botero.  Isn't is weird how labels sell wine today instead of what is in the bottle.

←

Botero is one of my favorites. Prints of his work adorn one of my favorite restaurants, Hamersley's Bistro in Boston. And I would guess that any producer who puts Botero on the label has to have something decent in the bottle.

[david coonce]

David,

There's a couple of major issues at play here.

The first involves direct shipment of wine to consumers.  This usually means direct shipment from a winery, not from a wine retailer.  According to the Wine Institute, in March of this year, Governor Daniels signed legislation allowing direct-to-consumer shipment of wine.  I'm pretty sure, though, that this applies to wineries only, but you'll want to check into it.  The limits on shipments from the consumer end are that no consumer can receive more than 24 cases of wine annually AND the wine must be purchased on site (don't know how that gets enforced, though).  The limits on shipments from the producer end is that no winery may ship more than 3000 cases of wine into Indiana annually.  Although the legislation has passed, the Indiana legistlature has not yet determined what all the rules will be.  Therefore, it may be a while yet before the legislation goes into effect.

Currently, neither FedEx nor UPS will transport wine to consumers in Indiana.  That may change, however, once the legislation becomes active.

However, it appears to me that you are more interested in purchasing wine from retailers out of state than from wineries out of state.  If you are looking for certain wines from use in the restaurants in which you work, work through your wholesalers.  If you want the wines for personal consumption, and want them because they are not available in Indiana, you have some options:

1.  Work through a local reatiler to get the wine through one of the wholesalers they work with.  If the wine is a domestic wine, find out from the winery who they use for wholesalers.  If there is not wholesaler in Indiana who lists the wine in their portfolio, they may try to get it for the retailer (and ultimately you), if they can sell enough of it, and if it is not completely allocated to other wholesalers.  If the wine is imported, find out who the importer is.  Then find out what wholesaler in Indiana reps that importer, and continue as above.

2.  Find an out-of-state retailer who doesn't give a damn and will ship to Indiana anyway.  Sam's will not because they risk paying hefty fines.

3.  Ship it to yourself.  If you are at Sam's in Chicago, there is a Mail Boxes, Etc. store one strip mall over.  Sam's will sell you a styrofoam shippper, and you can ship the wine to yourself.  Heck, a Sam's employee will even help you carry the wine over there.  But since you will likely have driven to Chicago, you might as well be your own courier.

4.  Rent a locker in Chicago.  There are some consumer wine storage facilitiies in Chiacgo that will receive wine for you and store it in a locker you rent from them.  Whenever you next are in Chicago, take what you want out of the locker.  Rental fees are usually based on the size of the locker and not the number of bottles or cases.

5.  Learn to like the wines you can get from your retailers.  It's just wine.

←

Thanks for all the good advice. I've purchased cases of wine from certain wineries in California that don't distribute out hwere, and they used UPS - is it just that they are skirting the law, or do they have a special permit. I wonder. Unfortunately, where I live there are only a couple wine distributors and they don't carry a lot of what I want. It's frustrating, to say the least, although they understand their business better than I do.

Thanks again, though.