Good basic combo machine?

[Swicks]

Hey all, this is my first time on this part of the forum.

Im looking for some insight on a basic, reasonably affordable combo type machine that can do both regular coffee and espresso. Does such a machine exist? Does the quality suffer with these types of machines?

Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers!

[phaelon56]

I'm looking for some insight on a basic, reasonably affordable combo type machine that can do both regular coffee and espresso.

Not the type of machine to waste time looking for.

Does such a machine exist?

Yes.

Does the quality suffer with these types of machines?

Absolutely.

My personal suggestions...

Low Budget: a Moka pot (stovetop espresso maker) at $50 or less and a Mellita cone style manual pour-over for drip at about $5 plus $20 for a thermal carafe to drip the coffee into. Moka coffee is not "real" espresso but it's typically a much better coffee drink than the "espresso" you'll get from a combo machine or a really low end espresso machine. And the coffee from the Melitta is as good as you'll get. Also budget about $20 for a decent little whirly blade grinder and use whole bean coffee.

Medium budget: A Gaggia Carezza espresso machine or equivalent at about $200 - $220 and a Solis Maestro grinder at about $100 - $110. You might also look for a Bodum Antigua grinder that's a bit cheaper but you can't spend any less than $80 - $100 and get a grinder that's good enough to make decent espresso. And stick to the Mellita or jump to $60 - $120 for a drip brewer that is tested to brew hot enough (I think Bunn, Technivorm and Cuisinart may be among the few that brew at a high enough temp).

High budget: don't get me started! Many, many options abound.....

[Swicks]

Owen,

Thanks very much for the info.

It is what I suspected. I think I have now moved my focus to getting just a decent priced espresso machine, I will check out some of your suggestions. I'd like to spend no more than $200 and there seem to be some options there. Any other suggestions? Can you give me a little bit more info on the grinding and why a more expensive grinder is worth it?

Thanks again for helping out a newbie.

[phaelon56]

If you can possibly see your way clear to a higher budget it's worth saving your pennies for awhle and getting a Rancilio Silvia - widely available at $495. If you don't do lots of steaming for milk drinks it's all the espresso machine you'll ever need for the home environment and is built like a tank.

Some folks liek some of the lower end Solis machiness but in the sub $250 category IMHO the Gaggia Carezza is as good as it gets. Shop around and you'll find one for about $200. It has a larger and heavier grouphead assembly than other machines in its class (more mass means better heat retention - crucial for good espresso). And the portafilter assembly is nearly as heavy as a commercial portafilter - once again - heavy is good.

Skip Saeco and also the low end Starbucks machines which are rebadged Saeco's. They're not inherently bad but have "pressurized" portafilters that offer a bit more consistent results for beginners but limit the potential shot quality. The Gaggia's have heavier parts where it counts, heat up faster due to a unique boiler design and IMO are more reliable (but that last comment is anecdotal based on a limited sampling).

Grinders: for espresso a cheap burr grinder = bad and a blade grinder is about the same. It's all about consistency of fine particle size - the cheaper grinders can't achieve it. They're fine for drip coffee but not for espresso. You can get a Solis Maestro "Classic" for about $89 these days - a good choice. But if you anticipate eventually moving up to a better espresso machine consider jumping to something like a Rancilio Rocky or its equivalent in the $250 - $275 range.

Preground espresso won't be fresh enough... cheap grinders are fine for drip but not for espresso... and a good grinder will (literally) last you a lifetime.

Here are two pinned topics just chock full of helpful grinder info

Grinder Discussions

[Swicks]

Thanks for all the info, extremely helpful. Like I said, I am a newbie to all this (home brewing espresso anyway).

Is it allright to purchase machines online? Any reccommended sites?

Thanks again!

[phaelon56]

In most geographic areas - even large metro areas - buying online is the only way to get the better brands and a decent price.

I'll try to post actual hyperlinks,when I get time but the places I have personal familiarity with - all of which are reputable - include Aabree Coffee, 1st Line Coffee, Chris Coffee and Whole Latte Love.

When you do some site scanning and gather a sense of what you may be most interested in I strongly recommend lookign at some consumer reviews on Coffeegeek.

Head geek Mark Prince also has a personal coffee site, Coffee Kid , which has some excellent FAQ's and basic tutorials for espresso neophytes.

[Swicks]

Awesome, this was exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks again!

[phaelon56]

By the way... I just noticed your location. If you haven't already been there I strongly recommend that yoi give Keane's Coffee a visit. It's owned by Martin Diedrich - the foudner of Diedrich Coffee (with which he is no longer affiliated).

He does all his roasting on site, sells whole beans stamped with roast date and rotatets stock to ensure that the availabel beans are always within about five days of roast date. There's a good selection of varietals availabel - most of them organic and Fair Trade.

He also has his stafff trained the right way - good shots are being pulled and on my visit there the milk texturing was also being done correctly. Try a machiatto or a traditional (Italian) cappuccino - good stuff!

[phaelon56]

By the way... I just noticed your location. If you haven't already been there I strongly recommend that you give Kean Coffee a visit. It's owned by Martin Diedrich - the foudner of Diedrich Coffee (with which he is no longer affiliated).

He does all his roasting on site, sells whole beans stamped with roast date and rotatets stock to ensure that the availabel beans are always within about five days of roast date. There's a good selection of varietals available - most of them organic and Fair Trade.

He also has his staff trained the right way - good shots are being pulled and on my visit there the milk texturing was also being done correctly. Try a machiatto or a traditional (Italian) cappuccino - good stuff!

And if you spot him there running his roaster (which he does every day) say hello for me to Martin Diedrich. He's a pioneer and a legend in the coffee business - not to mention being erudite, fascinating and a really nice guy.

[Swicks]

I will definately check it out, I know right where that is, a favorite sandwich shop of mine is right down the road.

Thanks again!

[PaniniGuy]

I'd add there's a cheap $75 way to get an "almost espresso".

1. Bodum milk foamer ($15)

2. Lello Ariete burr grinder from Amazon (LOUD and plastic, but it works) ($30)

3. Aerobie Aeropress ($30)

True, the above has none of the looks and romance of say a Rocky/Francis! Francis! combo, but unless you and/or your guests really know good espresso, they will be suitably impressed by your efforts.

[phaelon56]

Along that same line of thought... a moka pot for making "stovetop espresso" is also a great way to get inexpensive but good drinks. And I've been meaning to get an Aeropress and play around with it - thanks for reminding me!

[pim]

I am just fresh from diving head first into coffee geekdom to find espresso machine+grinder combo to replace my old ones. I ended up with the Silvia and Rocky from Rancilio. I'm a happy girl.

Tom at Sweet Marias has a super informative site which helped me out a lot in my research. Here's his suggestion on grinders. Poke aroudn in that site, there's whole lot of stuff there including a visual guide to troubleshooting crema problems. The guy is gooooooood.