Indonesian and Malaysian Recipes

[markemorse]

Hi everyone,

I feel like this post is mostly going to consist of disclaimers, so let me just get them out of the way:

I'm a (seriously hooked) newbie.

While I've seen plenty of trip reports and kew/Tepee's excellent Foodblog...

I haven't found much here on the cooking of this/these cuisines (Indonesian, Malaysian, with the attendant regional/religious variations)

So if anyone in the know can highlight whatever eGulletry I've probably missed that focuses on the cooking of said grub, that would be el supremo.

Or...is it because there are too many translation/exotic ingredient issues? Or, have we just "not gotten to it yet"? I really think it's possible to make these amazingly rich and artful cuisines accessible to those people who can't just walk down the street and purchase a good homemade sambal. I think.

Or...should we just let Babe in the City take care of it for us?

OK, thanks!

mark

Edited August 12, 2006 by markemorse (log)

[Tepee]

Yup, BITC does quite a good job...so does Lily.

For recipes and Msian chatter, Jo's site is full of T & T recipes. Also check out her message board.

Lots of us go to Kuali.com too.

For authentic Malay recipes which you can't find in the above sites, they're probably in Malay. Hey, Pan is always here to help, eh? Or just leave a note here.

I don't post recipes because as a typical Msian homecook, I literally throw a meal/dish together. Besides, I don't cook all that spicy dishes as my kids are still young and their tongues are tender.

Glad to see your interest in Malaysian food, Mark. Indeed, although Malaysia has a wide range of super-delicious food, our 'presence' is not quite felt. Foodie forums like eG, I admit, is a tad intimidating for humble Malaysians.

[markemorse]

Hi Tepee,

Thanks for the links, they look good! I think that reverse intimidation is probably in effect as well....that Malaysian cooking can be intimidating for non-Malaysians because there are so many unfamiliar ingredients and they're translated so inconsistently.

In Amsterdam we have an interesting problem (at least I do), because not only do the ingredients and dishes frequently bear an Indonesian name, they might also be called by a slightly differently spelled Dutch version of that name (peterselie, santen, boemboe, koenjit), as well as the English version. None of which is even usually the accurate Malay term for it!

But anyway it might be nice to see if we could increase the presence of this "super-delicious" food out here somehow.

I'll get to work on a plan. Right after I make some Ayam Masak Lemak Cili Padi with my store-bought chicken boobs and chilis that I think are Cili Padi (I don't have a camera at the moment or I'd post pictures)!

mark

[Tepee]

If your chili padi look harmlessly petite, you probably have the right hot stuff. You're lucky to be in Amsterdam; I'm sure you can find most of the spices you need because of the Indonesian community there.

Yum, your Ayam Masak Lemak sounds so good already.

[Dejah]

I am just beginning to try my hand at Malaysian cooking even though I've had cookbooks for ever. That's mainly due to the lack of essential ingredients.

So, the first recipe I made was Ayam Limau Purut. I've made it twice now, and can't get enough. The recipe is posted in the fresh Asian herbs thread in this forum.

The recipe called for 1/2 chicken which is not near enough for my carnivorous family. This second attempt, I used 6 boneless breasts and 6 bone-in thighs. I added more lime leaves as well. There's very little leftover!

Along with the huge pot I made for our family, I also made a potful for a friend with a 3 lb organic chicken. I was raving about the flavour so much that she asked if I would make some for her and her husband!

Chef Michael Smith on FoodTV said to use the congealed stuff at the top of a can of coconut milk to sautee with, as it is pure coconut oil. l Didn't work well for me. It gave off a beautiful aroma, then it scorched.

[markemorse]

That fresh Asian herbs thread is excellent, and your food looked beautiful. I didn't even look at the thread initially because the title seemed too general...maybe "fresh Southeast Asian herbs"?

Great that you're cooking so much Malaysian (and finding fresh ingredients!). Is that Ayam Limau Purut recipe too closely from the book to RecipeGullet it?

And that FoodTV recommendation hasn't worked for me in the past either. I was buying this solidified, ghee-like coconut oil that worked perfectly but the aroma wasn't as coconutty.

mark

Edited August 12, 2006 by markemorse (log)

[Chufi]

I'm a (seriously hooked) newbie.

I haven't found much here on the cooking of this/these cuisines (Indonesian, Malaysian, with the attendant regional/religious variations)

So if anyone in the know can highlight whatever eGulletry I've probably missed

←

Mark, which cookbooks do you use? I really like Sri Owen's books:

Indonesian Food and Cookery

Indonesian Regional Food and Cookery

Besides the recipes, these books have great background info and personal stories.

I've done a bit of Indonesian cooking, but have never been completely satisfied with my results. That said, it was a couple of years ago I last tried, and I think I've become a better cook since.. So I would love to see tried and tested recipes here... and try again...

[Pan]

[...]In Amsterdam we have an interesting problem (at least I do), because not only do the ingredients and dishes frequently bear an Indonesian name, they might also be called by a slightly differently spelled Dutch version of that name (peterselie, santen, boemboe, koenjit), as well as the English version. None of which is even usually the accurate Malay term for it![...]

←

Not so inaccurate at that, Mark! Malay and Indonesian nowadays share spellings for most things, the so-called ejaan baru (new spelling), which has been standard since the 1970s or so, but if you understand the correspondances, you'll have no trouble. Basically, showing the Dutch/old Indonesian spelling first and the ejaan baru second, tj=c, ie=i, ch=h or perhaps kh (Achmad=Ahmad), dj=j, sj=sy, oe=u, j=y.

I'll show you the correspondances in the words you've posted. The second spelling will be Malay; the third, an English translation:

Santen=santan=coconut milk

Boemboe=bumbu=seasonings or ground fresh spices [i had forgotten this one and looked it up in this Indonesian-English dictionary.] In Malay, I think I'd expect the term rempah more often for the spice paste, but I'm not sure what's most prevalent in recipes, nowadays.

Koenjit=kunyit=turmeric

I am not familiar with the word "peterselie." Neither the Indonesian-English dictionary nor Bhanot's Malay-English Cyber- Dictionary had it.

[Chufi]

Peterselie is Dutch for parsley. I don't think it's an Indonesian word?

[markemorse]

Not so inaccurate at that, Mark! Malay and Indonesian nowadays share spellings for most things, the so-called ejaan baru (new spelling), which has been standard since the 1970s or so, but if you understand the correspondances, you'll have no trouble. Basically, showing the Dutch/old Indonesian spelling first and the ejaan baru second, tj=c, ie=i, ch=h or perhaps kh (Achmad=Ahmad), dj=j, sj=sy, oe=u, j=y.

I'll show you the correspondances in the words you've posted. The second spelling will be Malay; the third, an English translation:

Santen=santan=coconut milk

Boemboe=bumbu=seasonings or ground fresh spices [i had forgotten this one and looked it up in this Indonesian-English dictionary.] In Malay, I think I'd expect the term rempah more often for the spice paste, but I'm not sure what's most prevalent in recipes, nowadays.

Koenjit=kunyit=turmeric

I am not familiar with the word "peterselie." Neither the Indonesian-English dictionary nor Bhanot's Malay-English Cyber- Dictionary had it.

←

Wow, Pan...I need your brain! At least the linguistic part. Thanks tons for the ejaan baru info, that's good stuff.

Well those ones were not so inaccurate because they're the ones I've been able to understand! The ones where there's wildly different Dutch-Indonesian-Malay-English words are the hardest to detect. For example, candlenuts are called kemiri in Indonesian, but buah keras in Malay, right?

Peterselie: I wish I hadn't even brought this one up, because it looks like it will take some unraveling that does more to illustrate my point than it does to help us cook Malaysian food more easily.

Well, according to the (perhaps not all that accurate) Malaysian Food Glossary, peterseli is cilantro. But I'm pretty sure you'd know it if it was, right?. That's okay, in Dutch it's not really cilantro anyway. I'm not a botanist, so someone please feel free to chime in with mo' betta info, but...in Dutch it refers to both curly parsley and flat-leaf parsley (which I believe may be what is also known as Italian parsley). Your local market seller will normally determine which one you want by asking if you want to use it for garnish or to cook with.

Anyway, I certainly don't want this thread to get bogged down in my Dutch-Indonesian-Malay-English translation issues, so I'll just say...that's what I'm talking about.

Edited August 13, 2006 by markemorse (log)

[markemorse]

Mark, which cookbooks do you use? I really like Sri Owen's books:

Indonesian Food and Cookery

Indonesian Regional Food and Cookery

Besides the recipes, these books have great background info and personal stories.

I've done a bit of Indonesian cooking, but have never been completely satisfied with my results. That said, it was a couple of years ago I last tried, and I think I've become a better cook since.. So I would love to see tried and tested recipes here... and try again...

←

Well, the first book that got me started on this a long time ago was Anya von Bremzen's Terrific Pacific, which is still a nostalgic favorite because it was one of my first cookbooks (it's now barely usable...I need a new one). No photos, but it talks about Nyonya and regional cooking in some detail and has lots of other good background, and the recipes are really pretty authentic (AFAIK).

Ha, get this: I just went out to Amazon to see if I've used the Sri Owen books before, and the very first Amazon customer review said "There are, however, ingredients listed not unique to Indonesia cooking. For example flat leaf parsley as garnish. I think Sri should also provide the garnish that the parsley substitutes for, in this case."

See? Bleepin' peterselie!

I've been doing most of my Indonesian cooking from online sources lately, but nothing that's so good I can recommend it unconditionally. I'll scour my bookmarks to see if there's anything worth recommending here.

Oh, and I also just got Linda Roodenburg's Rotterdams Kookboek, which explains much of the Indo/Surinam/Malay/Chinese/Indian evolution of what you and I eat here in Holland. It's 512 pages, about 50% explanatory text and 50% recipes. It's in Dutch and pretty dense, so it's slow going for me but I'm getting there.

Edited August 13, 2006 by markemorse (log)

[Chufi]

Peterselie: I wish I hadn't even brought this one up, because it looks like it will take some unraveling that does more to illustrate my point than it does to help us cook Malaysian food more easily.    

Well, according to the (perhaps not all that accurate) Malaysian Food Glossary, peterseli is cilantro. But I'm pretty sure you'd know it if it was, right?.    That's okay, in Dutch  it's not really cilantro anyway. I'm not a botanist, so someone please feel free to chime in with mo' betta info, but...in Dutch it refers to both curly parsley and flat-leaf parsley (which I believe may be what is also known as Italian parsley). Your local market seller will normally determine which one you want by asking if you want to use it for garnish or to cook with.

←

I'm no botanist, but I do like to google around. It seems that peterseli is just peterselie.. according to this website, the word peterseli was borrowed from the Dutch (among many other words in bahasa Indonesia like kroket and makaroni).

This site gives peterseli as the indonesian translation for Peterselie/parsley, and does not even give an Indonesian translation for coriander/cilantro.

It seems a bit unlikely that peterseli would be cilantro in Malaysia.. but, I'm no botanist

And why would they not use parsley in Indonesia?

Oh, and I also just got Linda Roodenburg's Rotterdams Kookboek, which explains much of the Indo/Surinam/Malay/Chinese/Indian evolution of what you and I eat here in Holland. It's 512 pages, about 50% explanatory text and 50% recipes. It's in Dutch and pretty dense, so it's slow going for me but I'm getting there.

←

that sounds really interesting. I'll be looking for that.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Chufi (log)

[Tepee]

I think the Malay equivalents are as follows:

Coriander/cilantro = daun ketumbar

Parsley = daun pasli

[Pan]

I don't remember having parsley in any of the food I've eaten in Malaysia or Indonesia, but honestly, I'm not sure the taste would have been very apparent in such highly aromatic food. Cilantro is much more part of that aromatic food world.

As for why an herb isn't used somewhere, it could be that it just isn't to their taste. Are there any Malaysian or Indonesian dishes with dill? I doubt it. TP, do you know of any?

[Tepee]

I don't remember having parsley in any of the food I've eaten in Malaysia or Indonesia, but honestly, I'm not sure the taste would have been very apparent in such highly aromatic food. Cilantro is much more part of that aromatic food world.

Well, Michael, you're right. If parsley is used at all, it's in some western adapted dish. Cilantro as well as celery leaves (daun sup/saderi) are used a lot.

As for why an herb isn't used somewhere, it could be that it just isn't to their taste. Are there any Malaysian or Indonesian dishes with dill? I doubt it. TP, do you know of any?

←

Nope...no dill. It's only very recently that supermarkets are carrying fresh 'western' herbs, like dill, tarragon, sage, and, etc.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Tepee (log)

[ecr]

A new book on Malaysian, Indonesian, and Singaporean cuisine just came out:

Cradle of Flavor by writer/photographer James Oseland.

My copy hasn't arrived yet but I'm betting, based on the articles he's done for American Saveur magazine on Padang food, Melakan Nyonya cooking, and dishes from Indonesia's Spice Islands, that it's gonna be a great one. His recipes work and employ authentic ingredients.

Supposedly a third of the book is dedicated to ingredients, markets, and photographs.

I believe Oseland has a website with a couple of recipes.

[markemorse]

Great-looking resource. An interesting mention of the use of dill in northeastern Thai cooking (I do realize where Thailand is in relation to Malaysia). But it's interesting that their cuisine uses much less coconut milk than central and southern Thai (and Indonesian and Malay) cooking, which is the first thing I thought of when Pan first mentioned dill: the fact that dill and coconut aren't really ever friends in the kitchen, are they?

But it looks like a very interesting book....thanks!

Edited August 14, 2006 by markemorse (log)

[ecr]

Coconut milk is much less used in Isaan and northern Thai cooking simply bec there aren't as many coconuts grown in those parts of Thailand. When I visited a few markets in northern-eastern (more northern than Isaan) Thailand earlier this year I rarely saw coconuts ... one vendor had coconut tree stem for sale, but it was 'imported' from southern Thailand.

Dill is pretty common in Lao cuisine, which is just one of a few shared traits of Lao and northeastern Thai food. Curiously, Laos do combine dill with coconut milk (there's a fairly well-known chicken stew with coco milk and lots of dill) ... but all Thais don't seem to, or at least I didn't run into it on that trip. I may have that coconut-dill recipe somewhere. It's quite a tasty dish.

[markemorse]

Thanks ecr, I knew someone was going to sweep my leg on the dill-coconut thing. Would love to see the recipe if you can find it.

Wanted to add Laksa's foodblog to the list of resources here.

Edited August 15, 2006 by markemorse (log)

[Dejah]

Thanks ecr, I knew someone was going to sweep my leg on the dill-coconut thing.    Would love to see the recipe if you can find it.

←

I LOVE dill, so would also appreciate the recipe, ecr.

[ecr]

coming up today or tmrow, I promise.

[Dejah]

I made Tepee's beef rendang for Ketupat-style joong last night...didn't make joong tho'.

I used stewing beef (a large pkg was given to me) which I never use normally. Next time, I will use meat from shortribs - a bit of fat, gristle.

I made extra sauce and it was great on saffron and peas rice. The flavour and aroma are intoxicating. I love this stuff!

For a vegetable, I stir-fried sliced yellow and green bell peppers, some red onion, then sprinkled fennel seeds on top. That added a nice licorice flavour.

[tristar]

Hi All,

Curley leaved parsley, is always listed as Peterseli in the supermarkets in Indonesia.

I have found the following resource to be most helpfull when I need to translate the names of herbs or spices Spice Index

Regards,

Richard

[ecr]

Sorry folks - try as I might I can't locate a recipe for Lao stewed chicken with coconut and dill. Thought it might be in Alan Davidson's Lao food book (he does discuss dill as an important ingredient in Lao cuisine) but no. Couldn't find it online either. But my better half also remembers the dish from our time there in 94 and 95, so I'm not imagining it!

My time in the kitchen will be limted for the next couple wks, but if anyone wants to give it a try, I would think a couple of cups of thick coconut milk, simmered till the oil rises would start the dish. Then some fresh galangal, garlic, maybe ginger, white pepper. No lemongrass or lime leaves ... this was not a sour dish. Adding chicken pieces to slowly cook to tender, mixing in lots of chopped dill halfway through, then when chicken is tender and coconut milk sauce thickish (like a thin cream soup), serve with more chopped dill on top. Perhaps some rich chicken stock in there too. The dish was very rich and comforting, not spicy.

I also remember a salad special to Luang Prabang - of watercress, with chopped peanuts and dill, lime juice on top and mixed with a raw egg to dress. Perhaps other travellers to Lao have encountered the same?