Boycott Bordeaux! (and others)

[Busboy]

I hope you're kidding.  But I really can't tell.

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I thought the "liquid assets tax" was pretty much a dead giveaway.

[Pontormo]

:

Aux armes, citoyens

Les verres sous les bras!

Marchons, marchons...

To arms, citizens/With glasses close at hand[loose trans.]/March on, march on...

[Rebel Rose]

Charles, thank you for maintaining your sense of humor in the face of these outrageous prices.

What if 2007 turns out to be the vintage of the millenium?

It's fruit! It'll be there again next year.

[JohnL]

Well, if you'd argue every leather-bound copy of "War and Peace", "Bleak House" or "The Magic Mountain" gets read, I won't burst your bubble... Nevertheless, prices for Bordeaux are set by collectors.  Prices are set by the case and they are set a year before those cases ship.  I don't imagine the chateaux give a passing thought to the unwashed masses who might splurge on a single bottle of Le Pin to celebrate an event 10 years in the future.  I'm not up for a boycott, but for all the Bordeaux I can afford to "invest" in, I might as well be.

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Prices are "set" by the chateau.

"Collectors" whoever they are--do not set prices.

After the initial offering by the chateau (based in part upon what they believe they can get for the wines) the other tiers involved add their markups.

FYI-auction prices are set mostly by the auction houses.

Also FYI--many collectors often sell off much of their collections via auction when they realize they have more than they can consume in their lifetimes. Along with the restaurant trade collectors are responsible for the availability of older vintages of well cellared wines for us to enjoy. (many at very reasonable prices). I suggest you look over the offerings at the various auction houses--you will be amazed at how many relative bargains there are.

And:

Many so called "collectors" are people of modest means who are passionate about wine and spend a large part of their disposable income on their hobby.

[Rebel Rose]

You're both right, actually. There is a new breed of wine hobbyist I call the 'wine flipper.' I would categorize a flipper as nearly always male, uberyuppie and image conscious. Probably passionate about wine, but just as likely to be as interested (or only interested) in having a fine wine cellar with some rare and expensive labels to show off. However, since he doesn't really have the income to purchase and consume all these bottles, he anxiously studies resale possibilities and 'flips' the wine (his own term) after a few years, thereby changing up his cellar. Spends a lot of time on WineBid.com and WineCommune.com. Will almost always take a photo of himself with a favorite winemaker for display, and will thereafter drop repeated references to said wm by first name in such a manner as to imply they are good friends.

Sort of a 'Miles with Money.'

Sound familiar to anyone?

[MaxH]

What she said!

Good portrait, Rebel Rose. (Probably the extreme a bell curve that includes many more moderate examples.) Yet I can testify the existence of exact fits, first encountered in the second half of the 1980s. (I don't know if anyone has started offering tours yet, but here in silicon valley it would be possible. Sort of like when I visited friends at the beautiful Duke University campus early last decade and they asked if I wanted to see any sights, and I eagerly requested "Deconstructionists," so they pointed out the desk of a currently fashionable professor in that specialty, though he was gone at the time.)

The term "collector" is also used in different ways. Sometimes I use it to mean people who buy wines they know will need time, and who park ("collect") them until use, even if they cost $5 and aren't meant to be shown to anyone or sold. I used the word that way on amazon.com when commenting about Elin McCoy's biography of Parker last year, and a later reviewer seized on my word as if it meant something else.

[JohnL]

You're both right, actually.  There is a new breed of wine hobbyist I call the 'wine flipper.'  I would categorize a flipper as nearly always male, uberyuppie and image conscious.  Probably passionate about wine, but just as likely to be as interested (or only interested) in having a fine wine cellar with some rare and expensive labels to show off.  However, since he doesn't really have the income to purchase and consume all these bottles, he anxiously studies resale possibilities and 'flips' the wine (his own term) after a few years, thereby changing up his cellar.  Spends a lot of time on WineBid.com and WineCommune.com.  Will almost always take a photo of himself with a favorite winemaker for display, and will thereafter drop repeated references to said wm by first name in such a manner as to imply they are good friends.

Sort of a 'Miles with Money.' 

Sound familiar to anyone?

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I'm sorry.

None of this makes any sense.

It is a wonderful parody though!!!

The whole theory is contradictory.

Even if it did, how have you identified these people?

Even if you could, how many of them are there?

No one who is "passionate" about wine would be likely to engage in this silliness.

(amazing how those "yuppies" now "uber-yuppies" are to blame for the price of Bordeaux now!)

I thought they were all shopping in Whole Foods now!

What many people do-is buy a lot of fine wine then sell off a portion to fund more purchases.

In the end, when someone buys anything they own it and can use it as they see fit.

The fact is, no one knows what happens to wine after it has been purchased.

Why speculate?

The reason some wines are expensive is mostly explained by simple basic economics.

The theories about nefarious groups of the unworthy or barbarians causing high prices is nothing more than sour grapes. Fine and rare wines will always be trophies. They will be drunk, cellared, traded, sold again......maybe even used in spritzers or swimming pools!

The web is rife with tasting notes for these wines so obviously a lot of them are being drunk.

The good news is there are plenty of wines at all price levels for all budgets (and purposes).

I'd rather enjoy what I can buy and than grouse over the price of tea in China!

In the end--what's the point?

[PurpleLips]

Prices are "set" by the chateau.

"Collectors" whoever they are--do not set prices.

prices are established by supply and demand --not the producers

Among other things, I'm occasionally hired to go into these cellars and pack bottles when a collector moves house, or runs out of space and invests in offsite storage. Overall, they are extremely passionate about wine. But many of them are only extremely passionate about some wines. Early on in this post did someone mention vinho verde? I had one such collector practically spit in my face when I brought a (truly delightful) bottle to his cottage to drink by the lake (among other, showier bottles, thank goodness). I know enough not to be embarrassed or offended. But there you are. They want the best, and the best, of course, costs the most and is the most famous.

And for many of these people, once the section in the cellar for the Bordeaux is filled, it is intended to sit there. So people can see it. One collector I know has a beautiful cellar in his basement where all the bottles are visible behind a glass wall. I've never seen a bottle come out of there. (And I've certainly never been hired to update his inventory list!) Because the wines he and his wife drink are all in wine fridges in the room next door. It was that cellar that made me realize there is a "literary classics bookshelf" element to wine collecting for some. Sure they are going to have to make room to add 2005s to the collection since it's gathering so much attention. But I don't think more than two or three cases gets shuffled around in that cellar in any given year. And it doesn't have any maturity issues.

It's their money, they should spend it as they like. Sour grapes, oh yeah. It burns me not to be able to have a first growth with dinner every Sunday if I want.

As a side note, even the Bordeaux houses realize there is a problem. I've heard of restaurants jumping through hoops to make a chateaux trust the older-vintage wine they were selling them would end up on a wine list, and not in some collector's cellar. Of course, I don't think the restaurant got a discount to go along with the sale

[Rebel Rose]

Max and PurpleLips, I am with you on this subject. The idea that first growths are only consumed by passionistas is a myth. At these price points, wine becomes a desirable luxury acquisition. Some chateaux have long-standing clients that automatically purchase much of their production. (If I had Max's guillotine-sharp memory I would remember this gentleman's name, but I rely on business cards and can't find it right now . . . however, I met one charming German producer years ago whose entire production is purchased each year by the Queen by England.) Royal families and embassies purchase much of the first growth productions.

After that, more of it is mopped up by people who will never truly appreciate it. I recently met a 32-year-old wine consultant from Dallas. He describes his job as purchasing, valuing, and maintaining wine inventories for private clients. He regularly gives them a cheat sheet of what's in their inventory that's rare and/or drinkable. I have met several other people who make a decent living (and acquire some fine perks) doing this.

And then what's left is sold to those of us who would exchange our vintage Mustangs for a case of 2005 first growth. Well, okay, maybe not.

[JohnL]

Max and PurpleLips, I am with you on this subject.  The idea that first growths are only consumed by passionistas is a myth.  At these price points, wine becomes a desirable luxury acquisition.  Some chateaux have long-standing clients that automatically purchase much of their production.  (If I had Max's guillotine-sharp memory I would remember this gentleman's name, but I rely on business cards and can't find it right now . . . however, I met one charming German producer years ago whose entire production is purchased each year by the Queen by England.)  Royal families and embassies purchase much of the first growth productions.

After that, more of it is mopped up by people who will never truly appreciate it.  I recently met a 32-year-old wine consultant from Dallas.  He describes his job as purchasing, valuing, and maintaining wine inventories for private clients. He regularly gives them a cheat sheet of what's in their inventory that's rare and/or drinkable.  I have met several other people who make a decent living (and acquire some fine perks) doing this. 

And then what's left is sold to those of us who would exchange our vintage Mustangs for a case of 2005 first growth.    Well, okay, maybe not.

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First question:

Even if what you are saying is true--how do you determine if anyone who buys these wines "appreciates" them?

Are you saying that anyone who is wealthy enough to afford first growth Bordeaux is ergo, incapable of " appreciating" the wine?

How do you know this?

Second question:

Are you also saying that anyone who avails themselves of a wine consultant is somehow not worthy of the wines they purchase?

That the advice from a 32 year old (your noting the age is troubling) is less valid then the advice anyone offers regarding the purchase of fine wine?

Or are you saying that anyone who uses any advice-- paid or not-- in purchasing wine is somehow unworthy/incapable of appreciating that wine?

So by your calculation some 90,000 cases of first growth Bordeaux is mostly being purchased by people who do not/can not appreciate these wines?

How do you define "appreciate?"

Also one must believe that these people are drinking something they don't like?

They do it for what--status?

This is all a bit bewildering.

Should one be required to take some sort of test before they are allowed to purchase fine wines (any wine)?

Does one need to prove their worthiness? To whom?

I gotta say--a lot of this thinking is pretty snarky!

The hell with boycotts!

Let's just kill the rich!!!

Then the wine will be ours! All ours!!! Nya Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!!!!

Let the revolution begin!!!!!

[Rebel Rose]

Even if it did, how have you identified these people?

In the end, when someone buys anything they own it and can use it as they see fit.

The fact is, no one knows what happens to wine after it has been purchased.

Why speculate?

[PurpleLips]

Rebel Rose makes a point I forgot to mention. Wine, barring small variances over vintages and newer vs established producers etc, has a measurable value. Generally speaking, there is a difference between a $40 bottle of wine and a $100 bottle of wine that someone who spends time thinking (or obsessing - you can say tomato) about the wine they drink can discern. Now our personal preferences come into play here too, (90% of the time you can give me a $35 bottle of Alsatian Riesling over a $70 bottle of say, Australian Shiraz - just my pref). But it really becomes difficult when these first growths (and others) have prices in the stratosphere. Is a first growth Bordeaux really better than a fine Cab blend from a relatively obscure artisan producer in Cali by $600++ per bottle? Can it be? I mean, at that price, shouldn't it wash the dishes after dinner or drive me home? Or are we spending the extra gazillions of dollars to experience the tradition of Bordeaux wines as kings, queens, popes have done throughout time. And, of course, so that we aren't ignorant of what the Bordeaux experience is (especially in the presence of more well-to-do wine drinkers). Anyway, yes I'll continue to splurge (and feel guilty about it) very infrequently for the rest of my life. And should I win the lottery any time soon, I too will have a cellar packed with "the classics". But it will require near-constant restocking and I'll never be accused of being a "collector". (But an alcoholic, maybe.)

[Sneakeater]

I simply want to address the fairy tale that all first growth productions find their way into the hands of struggling artists and writers who save all year to acquire these works of art.

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Nobody's saying that. You're knocking down a straw man.

The issue here is whether producers should somehow be prevented from charging what the market will bear so that the deserving poor can afford their products. The sub-contention seems to be that the rich, who can afford them now, are somehow by definition undeserving. What do "struggling artists and writers" have to do with it? Why can't a rich person enjoy the wine?

BTW -- Why not say the same thing about paintings? And since each one is unique, they're much rarer than wine bottles?

[PurpleLips]

BTW -- Why not say the same thing about paintings?  And since each one is unique, they're much rarer than wine bottles?

One obvious difference is that one doesn't "consume" artwork (in most instances) in order to enjoy it. Barring the collector (there's that dirty word again!) who hides a work away, many people can experience a work of art without owning it.

[Sneakeater]

Rebel Rose makes a point I forgot to mention.  Wine, barring small variances over vintages and newer vs established producers etc, has a measurable value.  Generally speaking, there is a difference between a $40 bottle of wine and a $100 bottle of wine that someone who spends time thinking (or obsessing - you can say tomato) about the wine they drink can discern.  Now our personal preferences come into play here too, (90% of the time you can give me a $35 bottle of Alsatian Riesling over a $70 bottle of say, Australian Shiraz - just my pref).  But it really becomes difficult when these first growths (and others) have prices in the stratosphere.  Is a first growth Bordeaux really better than a fine Cab blend from a relatively obscure artisan producer in Cali by $600++ per bottle?  Can it be?  I mean, at that price, shouldn't it wash the dishes after dinner or drive me home? Or are we spending the extra gazillions of dollars to experience the tradition of Bordeaux wines as kings, queens, popes have done throughout time.  And, of course, so that we aren't ignorant of what the Bordeaux experience is (especially in the presence of more well-to-do wine drinkers).  Anyway, yes I'll continue to splurge (and feel guilty about it) very infrequently for the rest of my life.  And should I win the lottery any time soon, I too will have a cellar packed with "the classics".  But it will require near-constant restocking and I'll never be accused of being a "collector". (But an alcoholic, maybe.)

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Edited July 18, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

BTW -- Why not say the same thing about paintings?  And since each one is unique, they're much rarer than wine bottles?

One obvious difference is that one doesn't "consume" artwork (in most instances) in order to enjoy it. Barring the collector (there's that dirty word again!) who hides a work away, many people can experience a work of art without owning it.

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[Rebel Rose]

Sneaks, I was being slightly sarcastic. I apologize if that wasn't clear.

[Sneakeater]

Sorry bout that.

[PurpleLips]

Geeze, I'm new here! Am I stepping on toes?! Of course the wine should cost what it's worth!

And art collectors are most usually delighted to lend out their artworks for shows and to bring people into their homes to view them.

[Sneakeater]

Of course you're not stepping on toes. This is called "vigorous discussion." It's fun, isn't it?

[PurpleLips]

Ouch!

[Sneakeater]

It's not fun? Sorry, then.

[PurpleLips]

I have no problems with "luxury items" being priced as the market will bear. I have no desire for fancy sports cars or dripping diamonds. I have a moderate interest in high-end fashion but a bit too much figure, anyway. But I'm fully dedicated to my love of food and wine. And sometimes that's poutine, and sometimes it's truffles. Tell me truffles are expensive because of how they are harvested, packaged and shipped and I'll pay pay pay. But with these famous (and frankly, this is what sets the bordeaux apart) wines the prices aren't relative to the product, only to the buyer.

Who didn't laugh darkly when the Bordeaux prices weren't declared for a month while the chateaux waited for Mr. Parker to show up? I wouldn't volunteer to judge the "worthiness" of bordeaux buyers. But it burns me that I can't enjoy some wines as often as I'd like because of a commodity market that's grown onto something I'm so passionate about.

What am I saying? IT'S NOT FAIR. Laugh away

[PurpleLips]

It's not fun?  Sorry, then.

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Sorry Sneakeater - it's fun it's fun!

[Sneakeater]

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!